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<...snip...>, IF they buy an album, share it with anyone who wants it. Thanks, Napster, for kicking that off for us.<...> Nothing has changed but the technology, and it was around long before Napster. If they buy it:Back 'in the day' local radio stations, in order to boost ratings used to announce, "Tonight at 11 we will play _____'s new album without commercial interruption." Thousands of people would have their tape machines cued up and ready to push the REC button. Then the station would play the LP and when flipping sides, the interruption would be "You are listening to W(or K)???.FM ___ on your dial." When they buy it:Cassette copy after copy would be made and shared with friends. The differences are: - The Internet makes it easier to share with people you don't know
- Music just isn't as important to this generation as it was to previous ones
I hear people moaning all the time that they can't make money recording music anymore. Well, most musicians never made money with recording. For >99% of all musicians, playing live has been the way to make money. Only <1% made any money from recordings. For every Beatles, Pink Floyd, Elvis, or whatever there were at least another thousand bands working clubs, parties, hotels, and so on. Plus most 'one hit wonders' or 'one CD wonders' ended up never making a penny of their recordings, and in many cases ended up owing the record company in the end. When Motown was courting us in the late 1960s, and they made their final offer, it was $.02 per record. Out of the royalties came inflated recording costs, inflated promotion costs, inflated production costs, and inflated distribution costs. Our lawyers figured that we'd have to sell a million copies of our first recording just to get break even and not owe Motown money. That's when negotiations broke down. The streaming services aren't doing anything that the vinyl and CD merchants did. Exploiting the artist. The real difference is that today music isn't as important to the screen generation. Not too many years ago, every hotel from a Holiday Inn up had a band playing 6 or 7 nights a week. Usually a pop band 6 nights and a jazz band on the 7th. Plus singles bars, restaurants, country clubs and dozens of other venues had to have a band. The only bars with TVs were corner taverns with a dozen or so bar stools and no tables. Discos came later and they put the first nail in the live music coffin. Now people stay home and watch TV and the 6 night gigs are all but gone. Music just isn't as an important to this generation. And I don't see a change coming any time soon. Why music isn't that important is another subject altogether, but I think I've hijacked the thread enough. To get back on topic, I make my living doing music and nothing but music because it's by bliss and I'm able to make a living at it. If I couldn't make a living at it, it would be my hobby and it still would be my bliss. Someone mentioned the high. I get into "the zone" almost every gig. That space where there is no place, no time, and no me -- where the music seems to flow through me instead of from me, and the time between when the gig stops and ends seems both infinite and instant. In any case, the gig is over too soon, and although I'm tired, it's a good kind of tired. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Notes, do you have any idea on what airplay pays bands? If you get into a rotation where you are played every hour and project that over 2000 stations, and stay there for 4 weeks, at one penny per play that works out to $14,400.
Now, to factor in the odds of having that song get that kind of heavy airplay, you may as well put on a blindfold, try to
1. Get into your car
2. Drive to a bar with dartboards
3. Park your car
4. Find the entrance
5. Find the dartboards
6. Throw bullseye after bullseye, all night long.
MUSIC doesn't matter to this generation. Nobody says "Have you heard the new song by _________?" They say "Have you seen the new VIDEO by _________?" Different world since MTV. I remember when concerts were pretty much about watching a band stand in front of mics and amps and playing. Now it's dance teams, lights, costume changing, fire, smoke..... Personally I much prefer to see The Eagles stand on stage and sing Hotel California.... without elastic audio correcting the vocals on the fly and the high notes being mixed in from the board. It is truly a (sadly) different time.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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the pay scale for streamed music doesn't match the pay scale for youtube vloggers. Whereas it seems to take thousands of hits to generate pennies for the talented musicians, relatively untalented people who can consistently generate a vlog per week and build a subscriber base are making about a dollar per thousand views. That's a lot more than the musicians are making. watch these articles and scratch your head in disbelief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0y3Opb8Wkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlsNOaj1sQ
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Pat I don't know if that was to me or not, but I am talking about real radio plays like what you hear in your truck, not internet or streams. We know streamed plays pay nothing.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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<...snip...>, IF they buy an album, share it with anyone who wants it. Thanks, Napster, for kicking that off for us.<...> Nothing has changed but the technology, and it was around long before Napster. If they buy it:Back 'in the day' local radio stations, in order to boost ratings used to announce, "Tonight at 11 we will play _____'s new album without commercial interruption." Thousands of people would have their tape machines cued up and ready to push the REC button. Then the station would play the LP and when flipping sides, the interruption would be "You are listening to W(or K)???.FM ___ on your dial." When they buy it:Cassette copy after copy would be made and shared with friends. Nothing but the technology? The technology is everything. Copies back then were analog crap, and not everyone had a tape machine. Every computer, and there are way more of them today than there were tape machines in the day, with a CD drive is capable of making a perfect dupe of any song or album. And instead of giving a few cassette copies to your friends you can share it with the whole world in a few seconds. Basically the general feeling is "if it's possible to steal it, then it's OK to steal it." Personally I don't care. I've never aspired to make a living with music although I have had some nice paydays. But for the folks that think they're gonna make a fortune in the "biz"...good luck with that.
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Since the talk has morphed to money.....
Yeah, streaming music is a rip-off for the writers. Building a business model along the lines of Pomplamoose is a good way to make a musical living.... sell direct and don't stream.
Film & TV pays really really well compared to streaming. Pay varies based on length of the cue.... but normally between 5 cents to a few dollars per cue/play.
It's possible, with time and effort, and recording good usable cues, to build a nice, steady, livable income stream.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The conversation has definitely morphed into the good old days were better so let me join in. I am very excited about the times. Growing up in Zimbabwe what chance did I ever have of making anything at all out of my music? There was nowhere to perform for pay and there was no way for me to expose my music to a label (that I knew of). Now, for absolutely nothing I can record a song, make a video and release the song on all digital platforms. Who knows who will see it. And I am doing this right now. When else were aspiring musicians like me able to do this in the past? This recording and video cost next to nothing to produce https://youtu.be/1KagFbfP6x0 and it will be released on my next album. Exciting times for sure!
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 01/11/17 06:15 PM.
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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The conversation has definitely morphed into the good old days were better so let me join in. I am very excited about the times. Growing up in Zimbabwe what chance did I ever have of making anything at all out of my music? There was nowhere to perform for pay and there was no way for me to expose my music to a label (that I knew of). Now, for absolutely nothing I can record a song, make a video and release the song on all digital platforms. Who knows who will see it. And I am doing this right now. When else were aspiring musicians like me able to do this in the past? This recording and video cost next to nothing to produce https://youtu.be/1KagFbfP6x0 and it will be released on my next album. Exciting times for sure! You are a breath of fresh air for sure!!! Thank you!
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Now, for absolutely nothing I can record a song, make a video and release the song on all digital platforms. Who knows who will see it. And I am doing this right now. When else were aspiring musicians like me able to do this in the past?
Exciting times for sure!
Yes, the upside is you can do your own release to a global audience for very little money, how cool is that? The downside is not much in the way of money to be made. It wasn't so much the fact that anyone can just make their own copies of music on their computer to load onto an MP3 player that killed the money aspect of it based on my experience, it is all the new streaming services out there. MP3 players are obsolete, most people just stream these days. When I first started with CDBaby back in 2003 things were quite different. Initially it was physical CD sales, but that changed very quickly to MP3 downloads via the various partners, iTunes etc. And that was a good thing, there was much more money to be made (via CDBaby) with an MP3 download than a CD sale. In checking my CDBaby accounting page it looks like the trend from someone buying an MP3 download to just buying a stream started happening around 2006, that is the last year I was consistently selling a lot of MP3 downloads, after that it is mostly streams. MP3 downloads pay the artist around $.77 or so, streams $.009. Not that I made a lot of money from it mind you, but for the first few years I was able to pay for my BIAB yearly upgrade with a few $$ left over from money made from CDBaby. But, that's just the way technology has changed the industry and not likely to change anytime soon. My $.02 for what it's worth
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Now, for absolutely nothing I can record a song, make a video and release the song on all digital platforms. Who knows who will see it. And I am doing this right now. When else were aspiring musicians like me able to do this in the past?
Exciting times for sure!
Yes, the upside is you can do your own release to a global audience for very little money, how cool is that? The downside is not much in the way of money to be made. It wasn't so much the fact that anyone can just make their own copies of music on their computer to load onto an MP3 player that killed the money aspect of it based on my experience, it is all the new streaming services out there. MP3 players are obsolete, most people just stream these days. When I first started with CDBaby back in 2003 things were quite different. Initially it was physical CD sales, but that changed very quickly to MP3 downloads via the various partners, iTunes etc. And that was a good thing, there was much more money to be made (via CDBaby) with an MP3 download than a CD sale. In checking my CDBaby accounting page it looks like the trend from someone buying an MP3 download to just buying a stream started happening around 2006, that is the last year I was consistently selling a lot of MP3 downloads, after that it is mostly streams. MP3 downloads pay the artist around $.77 or so, streams $.009. Not that I made a lot of money from it mind you, but for the first few years I was able to pay for my BIAB yearly upgrade with a few $$ left over from money made from CDBaby. But, that's just the way technology has changed the industry and not likely to change anytime soon. My $.02 for what it's worth That's interesting info and coming from a seasoned customer,you are providing relevant insight. A question for you. Is CDbaby still a income vehicle you would recommend to a new artist wanting to publish and distribute their work in today's market? Not just for income, but for exposure as well. Charlie
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Now, for absolutely nothing I can record a song, make a video and release the song on all digital platforms. Who knows who will see it. And I am doing this right now. When else were aspiring musicians like me able to do this in the past?
Exciting times for sure!
Yes, the upside is you can do your own release to a global audience for very little money, how cool is that? The downside is not much in the way of money to be made. It wasn't so much the fact that anyone can just make their own copies of music on their computer to load onto an MP3 player that killed the money aspect of it based on my experience, it is all the new streaming services out there. MP3 players are obsolete, most people just stream these days. When I first started with CDBaby back in 2003 things were quite different. Initially it was physical CD sales, but that changed very quickly to MP3 downloads via the various partners, iTunes etc. And that was a good thing, there was much more money to be made (via CDBaby) with an MP3 download than a CD sale. In checking my CDBaby accounting page it looks like the trend from someone buying an MP3 download to just buying a stream started happening around 2006, that is the last year I was consistently selling a lot of MP3 downloads, after that it is mostly streams. MP3 downloads pay the artist around $.77 or so, streams $.009. Not that I made a lot of money from it mind you, but for the first few years I was able to pay for my BIAB yearly upgrade with a few $$ left over from money made from CDBaby. But, that's just the way technology has changed the industry and not likely to change anytime soon. My $.02 for what it's worth That's interesting info and coming from a seasoned customer,you are providing relevant insight. A question for you. Is CDbaby still a income vehicle you would recommend to a new artist wanting to publish and distribute their work in today's market? Not just for income, but for exposure as well. Charlie Hi Charlie, Well, at the time CDBaby was the only game in town, now there are more options. One nice thing about CDBaby is they distribute your music to all of the digital sites, not just a few, and there are lots of them. Also with CDBaby you pay one fee to get a new release up and you are done, other sites that offer a similar service, reverbnation is one, require a renewal fee every year or they take your music down. But, I haven't kept up to date to be honest, maybe there is a better way to get your music up on iTunes, spotify, etc. now.
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The "good old days" really weren't all that good... it's just that your memory has gotten worse with time.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Notes, do you have any idea on what airplay pays bands? If you get into a rotation where you are played every hour and project that over 2000 stations, and stay there for 4 weeks, at one penny per play that works out to $14,400.
Now, to factor in the odds of having that song get that kind of heavy airplay, you may as well put on a blindfold, try to
1. Get into your car
2. Drive to a bar with dartboards
3. Park your car
4. Find the entrance
5. Find the dartboards
6. Throw bullseye after bullseye, all night long.
MUSIC doesn't matter to this generation. Nobody says "Have you heard the new song by _________?" They say "Have you seen the new VIDEO by _________?" Different world since MTV. I remember when concerts were pretty much about watching a band stand in front of mics and amps and playing. Now it's dance teams, lights, costume changing, fire, smoke..... Personally I much prefer to see The Eagles stand on stage and sing Hotel California.... without elastic audio correcting the vocals on the fly and the high notes being mixed in from the board. It is truly a (sadly) different time. I agree 100%. 1) The publishers always exploit the artists 2) I'd rather hear the real thing than an auto-tuned or other artificially enhanced performance. And speaking of that. I went to a big rock fest quite a few years ago. I really went to see/hear Dr. John. Alice Cooper was on the bill, and during the scene where they marched across the stage to hang him on the gallows, the tape playing the music and vocals malfunctioned and the only thing you could hear was the parade drum. They went through the motions as rehearsed anyway. And the publishers exploit the artists. The publisher makes more than the songwriter for the sheet music, more than the artist for a record sale, and so on. And like I said, it's not only musicians. My cousin wrote a novel that sold a few hundred thousand copies, but she never got to the point where she made a profit, and being a fist timer, the publisher just promoted it enough to recoup their costs from the royalties. Visual artists pay for the canvas, framing, etc. (which is extremely expensive) and for the works that sell the gallery takes home more money than the artist. Of course, all this changes if/when you break out and become famous. Then you get a better contract because you are worth more to the publisher. <...>
Nothing but the technology? The technology is everything. Copies back then were analog crap, and not everyone had a tape machine.<...> I agree, but people listened to crap. And everyone I knew had a cassette machine. They listened to 2nd and 3rd generation tapes with no problem (except for the few like the musicians with 'ears'). Before that they listened to lo-fi 45rpm records and before that 78s. And what about those 8track players that faded out in the middle of a song, clicked to the next track, and then faded in to play the rest of the song. The average music consumer doesn't care that much. They want to hear the words and sing along to the tune. --------------------- And yes, you can now get to a global audience with the Internet for minimal investment. That's a good thing. The down side is there are zillions of others doing the same thing so marketing to get people to find you might cost more than your streaming or download fees. I can make more playing one gig live than most can with streaming and download profits for a year. And I do this a few days per week. I've paid off my mortgage, taken a foreign vacation almost every year (after we did 49 US states), bought a boat, cars, and paid all my bills doing music and nothing but music. Life is good. The down side of that is that I'm playing at my full potential. I can't sell multiple copies of that performance and possibly break out and become a millionaire like Kenny G. But for every Kenny G who makes it, there are thousands who record and try but never make a buck. It probably has about the same odds as playing the state lottery. --------------------------- So the way I see it is, the odds of making big bucks in the recording industry have never been good. On the other hand the opportunities have expanded but the field of competition has as well. The big stars like The Beatles, GNR, and so on have always been the exception to the rule, and that small percentage has been able to live off their recordings since the last half of the 20th century, but with the increase of technology, they are now making less than they used to make. But for centuries, the vast majority of musicians have made a living playing music, live, in front of an audience. Before mass media, all the musicians made all their money playing live to an audience. The demand for live music is less than it has ever been since I was a child, but it's still there. Unfortunately there is more competition, screens (especially cable TV), open mic nights where your competition plays for free, DJs, and sports bars. But a good musician can probably still make more in one night than he/she can with a year of Spotify royalties. Back on topic. Most of us play music because we really, really, really enjoy playing music. Those of us who can also make a living by playing music, are IMHO the lucky ones. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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The "good old days" really weren't all that good... it's just that your memory has gotten worse with time. We used to do a bluegrass song titled "I think We're Living In The Good Old Days." J&B
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The "good old days" really weren't all that good... it's just that your memory has gotten worse with time. We used to do a bluegrass song titled "I think We're Living In The Good Old Days." J&B That's correct, and you are right. It doesn't get any better than this.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Pat I don't know if that was to me or not, but I am talking about real radio plays like what you hear in your truck, not internet or streams. We know streamed plays pay nothing. it wasn't posted in response to you specifically. My point was simply to say that if internet ads justify paying vloggers about $1.37 per THOUSAND views... (even after youtube gets THEIR 45% cut) ... pro music surely draws larger audiences to ads that are billed the same way to advertisers... but the music streaming companies are keeping a MUCH larger share of the revenue. It isn't even CLOSE! You would make more money by putting your music on a youtube blog and monetizing it, doing the things others do to build your subscriber base than you will EVER make by allowing Pandora to stream your music. Plus, putting it on your own youtube site gives you other options, like partnering with retailers, selling merch etc. Same internet, same ad pricing, different payout schemes. Why musicians continue making their music available to the people who screw them is a mystery to me.
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The "good old days" really weren't all that good... it's just that your memory has gotten worse with time. We used to do a bluegrass song titled "I think We're Living In The Good Old Days." J&B That's correct, and you are right. It doesn't get any better than this. I agree... these are good times for those who think outside the box and look for ways to use the new paradigms and circumvent all the middle men. . Those who continue to use the old approaches are destined to remain one step behind the sharks who dominate that world. Online streaming is nothing more than "record company 2.0"
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<...snip...> Why musicians continue making their music available to the people who screw them is a mystery to me. - Open mic nights - the owner/management gets paid, the bartenders get paid, the wait staff gets paid, the janitors get paid and the musician works for free, plus he/she even brings friends and family in to make more money for the people who are getting paid
- Playing anywhere for 'exposure' - same as above
- Bad deals with record companies and streaming companies - similar to above
If you want to play for free, there is nothing wrong with that. Find a charity you like, play in a public park, a neighbor's house, a party, or any other non-commercial place you want. But if it's a business and the management and staff are getting paid, don't play for free, you are only being exploited. In addition you are harming the ability of both yourself and other musicians to make a living by playing music. Insights, incites and a minor rant by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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If you want to play for free, there is nothing wrong with that. Find a charity you like, play in a public park, a neighbor's house, a party, or any other non-commercial place you want. But if it's a business and the management and staff are getting paid, don't play for free, you are only being exploited. In addition you are harming the ability of both yourself and other musicians to make a living by playing music.
+1
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If you want to play for free, there is nothing wrong with that. Find a charity you like, play in a public park, a neighbor's house, a party, or any other non-commercial place you want. But if it's a business and the management and staff are getting paid, don't play for free, you are only being exploited. In addition you are harming the ability of both yourself and other musicians to make a living by playing music.
+1
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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