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Hi all,

I visited guitar center the other day - and started playing the Bose L1 compact. What a mistake - I think it is inevitable that an L1 system eventually makes it into my house.

That said, I was curious - because this group is so committed to perfection and has a critical ear - in knowing what the best LIVE sound amplifiers are that can be had for UNDER $500 (store price). Since I almost exclusively shop used - the end price for any recommendations will ultimately be much lower.

Thanks in advance.

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If your budget max is $500, I would suggest shopping used gear in the paper want ads or craigslist.

New gear of decent quality is hard to find in that price range.

A quick search of the net found only this ( in under 60 seconds) http://www.samash.com/eon206p-portable-pa-system--jeon206px-p

Also, talk to other musicians in your area. There's always someone who has used gear in the back room they are wanting to sell. You might find a good deal in that manner.

Years ago, in my "musical home town" there was a certain Peavey mixer that made it's rounds to practically all the bands in town in this manner. Bands starting up and short on cash would often end up with it for a short time. 9 channels and internal power amp.... ugly as sin but it got the job done for new bands.


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Personally, I think the Bose is overrated.

I have a pair of Carvin PM15A amplified speakers that have more bass, smoother midrange and more resonance than the L1.

I did an A/B test with the Bose and the difference was obvious.

http://carvinaudio.com/collections/pm-series-active-passive-lightweight-molded-speakers/products/pm15a-molded-active-main-monitor-speaker

Of course you would need a mixer as well, but right now they are on sale for $339 (I paid closer to $500 each).

The nice thing about the L1 is portability and low footprint on stage. The bad part is you need the subwoofer, they are terribly expensive, and they have a rather thin sound compared to a good system with bigger speaker cones.

I know this doesn't directly answer your question, but it might give you more comfort at your price range to get a used set with bigger woofers.

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Indeed. I am a huge fan of Carvin gear.

Back in the day I have owned several Carvin guitar amps. I loved them both. I sold the first to buy the second. The second was Carvins answer to the Mesa 100w 12" Boogie. I ended up selling that amp because it was simply too loud. I bought the Mesa studio I currently still have.

I also owned and still own one of their 800w stereo power amps. Only one problem with it in all that time. One side of the amp went out. It was a modular 5 minute swap in my living room. Back up and running.

A buddy bought a bass guitar from them. Buying any guitar in the mail without playing it is a gamble. Everyone who played it loved it.

I also bought a small 16 channel mixer that I used in my studio for a time. When I got the Focusrite, it was collecting dust so I sold it as well.

I would not hesitate to buy anything that I might need from Carvin.


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
<...snip...> Buying any guitar in the mail without playing it is a gamble.<...>

It used to be that you could buy just about anything locally and try it out first. But those days are long gone. That was so 20th century.

I bought a MacSax saxophone and a Parker Guitar on-line without trying either first. I'm delighted with both.

My first pair of Carvin passive speakers were done without hearing them first. But I did hear a pair of older models.

I was thinking about getting rid of my 60 pound sub-woofer and the two satellite speakers. I do one-nighters ('nuff said).

I went to music stores and did A/B switching with Mackey, Samson, JBL, Peavy and other brands, all with 12 and 15" woofers. Nothing really sounded that good. Nothing was bad, but they all sounded a bit thin in comparison. The only ones that sounded as good or better were a pair of EV's that were way out of my price range. If I remember correctly, they were over $800 per passive speaker.

Then I was playing in the clubhouse of a retirement community, and noticed the Carvins. When setting up my gear I asked the contact person if I could try one out. He was a Carvin fan and was happy to let me A/B them.

They of course sounded different, the bottom end was lighter (as expected with no sub-woofer) but the midrange was warmer than my system and all the ones I tried in the music stores. I figured I could EQ the bass to compensate.

So I called Carvin, the ones I tried in the clubhouse were discontinued, so I got the newer models. I was delighted with them.

Fast forward a number of years. My QSC PA power amp failed and I played a gig with fuzzy sound. Fortunately it was a gig we had been doing weekly for years, and the regulars all understood. I have a spare power amp at home, and replaced it immediately.

Then I started thinking about powered speakers. The logic is that if the amp on one of the powered speakers failed, I could limp through the show on one speaker. So I bought the Carvins I'm now using. I'm a 'the show must go on' person and anything I can do in advance to assure that is a good idea. My old Carvins are happy now as the speakers in my home stereo.

I have friend who uses a Bose for their PA. I did an A/B test with both their gear and mine swapping speakers. We all agreed that the Carvins had a warmer, thicker sound with better lows and mids. But I suppose some people might prefer the edgier, thinner Bose sound, and it is certainly easier to transport.

I gave my old speakers to a couple of teenagers starting a band. I did that years ago with the sub-woofer system too. I like doing that. I just go to my local M&P music store, and ask the owner if he knows anyone needy. I give them through him, he gets loyalty out of the teen band, and I get loyalty from my local music shop. More importantly, it's great to help young musicians.

OK, I'm drifting way off topic here (sorry).

Bose gets some great sounds out of tiny speaker cones, and I'm really impressed with how much they do with such tiny speakers. Speaker technology has really gotten better than it was in the past (anyone remember schlepping 'voice of the theater' speakers). But for now, at least IMHO, the advanced Bose technology is getting closer, but still hasn't replaced the big 15" cone of a well designed speaker system.

Insights and incites by Notes


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
<...snip...> Buying any guitar in the mail without playing it is a gamble.<...>

It used to be that you could buy just about anything locally and try it out first. But those days are long gone. That was so 20th century.



Bose gets some great sounds out of tiny speaker cones, and I'm really impressed with how much they do with such tiny speakers. Speaker technology has really gotten better than it was in the past (anyone remember schlepping 'voice of the theater' speakers). But for now, at least IMHO, the advanced Bose technology is getting closer, but still hasn't replaced the big 15" cone of a well designed speaker system.

Insights and incites by Notes


Indeed.

My last guitar purchase was like that. Unplayed, through the mail, and it plays well. No problems.

Gear.... I bought some 10" guitar speakers from Carvin to install in my Cerwin Vega stereo speakers. The original cones in there had thin rubber surrounds that broke down in the Carolina heat and humidity after years of good service. CV wanted an arm and a leg to recone. For less than the price to recone one, I got 2 new speakers including the shipping cost from Carvin.

Back in the day, a local (regional touring) band started to use a modular PA setup. Everyone at the time was into those huge sugar scoop twin 15" monsters. On top of those we stacked 12" mid range cabs and on top of that 1" throated horns and piezo racks. It took at least 3 stereo power amps to run that rig at a bare minimum. If anything died, you were SOL.

That other band sold their old heavy monster of a PA and went out and bought a number of Yamaha two 12" speaker cabinets with a horn and 2 piezo setup in each cabinet. Kinda like the cabinets many bands start with and then decide to move up to a bigger more impressive looking rig. I think they had about 8 or 12 of them. Each one was powered by one channel in a Yamaha stereo power amp. Man, talk about loud and clean but most importantly, scalable. If you were in a small club, bring in 4 cabs, big club or outdoor event, set it all up. Have a power amp fail or a blown speaker? No problem, everything else is the same. The gig WILL go on. They also had some of the Bose 800's from their older PA that they would set on top of the Yamaha stacks. I think, mainly for looks but they could use them for the mids and highs as well if they needed. They had enough cone coverage to mike the bass in the PA and it was clean and full.


Now days, I have seen the extensive use of powered speakers in everything from touring bands on the club circuit to churches. They do make more sense. Everything built in, sound good, and if one goes out, swap it out with a spare or run on one.


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Carvin is an excellent company. I have purchased both a guitar and a guitar amp from them. The guitar was sweet and completely set up so all I had to do was to play it. The amp was also great but also heavy. I sold the amp after about 10 years of using it. The guitar I sold after about 20 years of use. Both were still in excellent shape. I would not hesitate buying from Carvin again.


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+1 for Carvin. I'm only a few hours from the factory but have yet to tour it. I've had and used many Carvin products and have always been pleased. Been using a PA1200 powered mixer with 3 300 watt amps built in to it for some 20 years now. It has been a work-horse of a powered mixer. Runs powered speakers also. Never a single issue what-so-ever. It was in use at a mobile church and a mobile music ministry for a good 12 years straight. Loading in and out 2 - 3 times per week. Many times with every hole on it, front and back, plugged by a cord or cable. Now they have an updated model with 4 amps built in, better EQs and FX. BTW, they used to brag/advertise that PA1200 built in effects were made by Motorola. I still have the pair of 12 inch floor monitor wedges that came with it too. But, they rarely see daylight.

Last edited by Tobias; 03/13/17 06:39 PM. Reason: spelling

Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Getting down to that price range you might check out the Fender Passorts or the Kustom PA systems. I wouldn't consider them really high sound quality but should get the job done. I've know solo musicians that have a few sets of Kustom PA systems. They just leave 'em set up at their weekly restaurant gigs.
I've used 4 channel Roland keyboard amps in the past. You can set them sideways on a chair or table to get them up off the ground.
Some Acoustic Guitar amps have 2 channels and a MP3 input.
Many powered speakers these days have at least 2 inputs. They usually have decent sound quality and you can always add more as you grow.


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I think the selling point of the BOSE isn't that it compares favorably as a dance band system. Obviously, for gigs where you need THUMP,a system with big speakers is required to move that much air.

What the BOSE brings to the equation is lots of clarity at low volumes, and excellent sound distribution.

Especially for gigs at places like restaurants and retirement homes, BOSE systems are perfect because they don't compete with the conversation the way other systems do.

my 2 cents. YMMV


+1 on the idea of buying used. There seems to be a bottomless pit of people who buy good gear on a dream, then decide they aren't up to the challenge, only to sell the gear for a fraction of what they paid.

Kind of like exercise equipment. I'd never buy it new... every yard sale you pass has practically unused exercise equipment at bargain basement prices

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Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
I think the selling point of the BOSE isn't that it compares favorably as a dance band system. Obviously, for gigs where you need THUMP,a system with big speakers is required to move that much air.

What the BOSE brings to the equation is lots of clarity at low volumes, and excellent sound distribution.

Especially for gigs at places like restaurants and retirement homes, BOSE systems are perfect because they don't compete with the conversation the way other systems do.


An old band buddy of mine went to work for the cruise lines as one of the solo entertainers you often see set up in the small bars and lobby areas on cruise ships. They provided the sound system and mic, and he essentially walked in, plugged his laptop in, his guitar and modeling amp, and played his music.

He said that they upgraded the PA when the ship was in dry dock for some refitting and when he came back it was one of those Bose systems. He loved it. Great sound, small footprint and easy to work with. Of course, that is the perfect place where the system is designed to work. Low volume because people want to be able to talk and have fun without yelling over the music. Especially in the lobby or central concourse. In the dance clubs, he could crank it up and it apparently did the job there as well with the addition of a sub for the dancers.

He played those ships for almost 20 years. They canceled his contract before he hit the big 20 so they didn't have to pay retirement to him. He's still in the South Florida area clubbing it as a solo artist.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
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Thanks everybody for your insightful comments. I have sensitive ears, and for whatever reasons, the Bose bother them less than other sound sources - I'm not sure why (you obviously noticed that too Pat). All of your comments were spot on. And yes - for that bass "thump" that goes through the chest - well, the L1 will not do that. The gentleman I bought my L1 S2 system from, used, is a Digeridoo player, and quite charismatic. He liked the L1 because he had less issues with feedback when playing his Digeridoo through it.

Also - I'm definitely going to pay more attention to Carvin - everybody had such great experiences with their sound and quality.

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Congratulations on your purchase. Thanks for letting us know what worked best for you. I hope it does the job even better than you anticipate.

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