|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15 |
Is there some way to tell Realtracks to start at "certain offset position" at specific bar?
My problem is that I'm trying to create backing track with acoustic guitar for a long (~5min) song. Style should be just simple waltz strumming.
When I generate the track it always has strange rhythmic changes at some bar, either right at the beginning of the song or X bars later. When I happen to generate version which starts like it should, I'd like too keep that "beat" all the time, which means that I'd like to loop that ~4 bar section over and over again without any variation.
I already tried "force track to simple arrangement", but that made it "too simple" by taking off the rhythm and changing guitar to picking slow style, while I'd like to have just a solid strumming. Is this possible?
Additionally sometimes guitar chords get played from higher position. Is there a way to force playing to lower neck positions, so that the sound doesn't become "too thin"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,631
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,631 |
If it were me ..
Realband (comes with BiaB for free) allows this type of editing in a much more intuitive way.
In RB you could easily copy/paste the desired section wherever you want
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352 |
I'm not sure if I completely follow. A few things come to mind.
Re: Is there some way to tell Realtracks to start at "certain offset position" at specific bar?
You can mute any one of the RealTracks and also un-mute at any bar. This is done by clicking on the bar and pressing F5 function key. The dialog is self explanatory. That will allow your RealTrack to start at any bar.
As for starting at an offset at a specific bar, you can insert a rest by entering the chord followed by a single period. E.g. if you wanted the RealTracks to start on beat 3 of the bar, enter as |C. C |
if you want the track to start playing at beat 2, enter as |C.,C |
If you generate and get the correct 'feel' you can freeze the track so that it won't regenerate next time you start the song. Freeze by clicking the small asterisk on the mixer, alongside the mute and solo button.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15 |
I try describe the offset problem better. It has nothing to do with how you put the chord changes, it has everything to do with the BIAB song generation engine:
Think realtrack as a loop. In most simple state it probably is simply a set of wav-loops, which are mixed together between bar's & chord changes. When you press "generate" it seems to randombly pick one position from that loop. I don't know the details, but it seems to me like the original loop was recorded for certain length, say 8 or 16 bars. Generating seems to start the loop either from 1, 4, 8, 12 or 16. Depending on how original player decided to play it, there might be very different rhythm or backbeat at different offset position.
If original wav was structured ("stylized", not speaking of actual song structure):
[A,A,A,A,B,B,C,C,A,A,A,A]
Generating may start the track as:
[B,B,C,C,A,A,A,A,A,A,A,A]
...but if you chose to play this instrument solo (such as strumming guitar for song writing) it sounds very weird, as the song begins by guitar playing alternative Em from high position of neck, which after it changes to backbeat picking, finally coming back to original solid strumming.
Now what I would like to do is to tell BIAB is that I want to use the original WAV playing order / offset, so that at bar 8, when my intro finishes, it always starts A,A,A,A,B,B,C,C... and the same thing for chorus. It would make much more sense.
It doesn't really matter if RT is really a loop or if all those variations are separate WAV files within style. The most important thing is that I need to be able to have some control how they trigger, in order to make any sense on rendered outcome. I cannot randomly try generating 8 minute long solo strumming by clicking "generate" 100 times and hope that one might work so that I could freeze it, because I simply don't have enough energy to listen 8 minutes 100 times.
As my backing track is a whoppin 8 minutes long, it has *lots of* crazy sounding backbeat rhythms for guitar at wrong positions. I'm 100% unable to tell what the actual rhythm of the song is, because it sounds like rhythm guitarist is on drugs or something. A few minutes ago I regenerated the guitar and it started with "hit" -like held note for two bars, which after it started playing strumming. Regenerate again and it starts with strumming, but quickly changes again to Em with high neck position.
Only way to make any sense is to add drums & seconds guitar, so that song blends better and those "minor" errors sound more like "cool alteration on playing", but for simply solo it's a mess.
I haven't checked RealBand yet, but my real alternative might be write each song section with separating bars, export guitar to wav, and by copy & paste build the song from "good blocks" in DAW (leave bad blocks away and replace 'em with good blocks). It just looks like a lot of work, so I'd like to know is there a better way to control what is being generated in BIAB (= "give tips for BIAB how to start playing at certain bars").
Edit:
IF I'm not too much off with the idea of how BB Realtracks work (I have quickly checked "making of" tutorials, but don't remember the exact details), I wonder why leave track generation to random? Wouldn't it be better to have option to let user tell "generate with +1 / +2 / +3 / +4 bars offset"? Randomizing is great for getting unique feeling as a band, but letting user to handpick would be beneficial feature... Additionally, I think this shouldn't be made as configuration for whole song, but as a bar-specific configuration ("restart realtrack at position: ___"), as many songs have different lengths for different parts and song generating probably can't figure out every possible change.
Last edited by Reaktor; 03/14/17 08:18 PM. Reason: additional details, if this is a feature request
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583 |
BIAB is and always has been mainly designed to play with different variations to create backing tracks that don't sound stiff.
As has been stated, you probably need to do what you are suggesting in a DAW, where you can slice and dice the sounds however you want.
While BIAB may one day support what you are suggesting (you should go to the wishlist and request it), it has never had that granual control over what gets generated. Even with MIDI styles, you are going to get variations in what is played.
That's just the way it is and the way it has always worked.
I'd suggest using RealBand or your favorite DAW.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753 |
Sounds like BIAB is doing exactly what it is designed to do. Give you the various strums/bars you would need to make the song the way you want it to be in a DAW or RealBand.
But, have you tried typing in a new/same chord at the beginning of each bar? Sometimes this has worked to make the same initial pattern play for each bar the chord is placed on.
If you have 8 bars and only have a chord at the beginning of that 8 bar section it's more likely to wander into the other random patterns.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,860
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,860 |
Tobias makes a good point. RealTracks individual phrases may be from 1 bar long to 8 bars long. You can vary the pattern by repeating the entry of a chord within that length, or let BIAB decide longer phrasing.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15 |
Unfortunately this method hasn't worked for me. As I stated previously, when soloing (for an example 12-string strumming guitar), it could start with backbeat strumming from high neck position, or even worse, start with long holding notes for two bars. It's completely random, there is no control over it, except regenerating track, which most likely moves to the problem to another position.
I resolved the problem by creating 4 WAV export variations of generated tracks, which I then load to DAW and crossfade between the tracks when the problems raise. Another possible fix is using the cut/paste method, but it's very cumbersome as you there is quite a lot of crossfading required between the slices.
Additionally I stumbled into a problem of BB seemingly having max bar-length of somewhere around 150-250. After trying to insert more bars it simply crashes. I couldn't figure out better way to structure the song, as it doesn't follow closely to usual ABAB -variations, but has lots of differing sections. I had to make the song with two different song files and glue 'em in DAW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,582
Posts734,691
Members38,499
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean