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#405473 - 04/05/17 11:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks
Icelander Offline
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Premise: Let's face it, with the built-in synth, the effect of velocity nuances in terms of the articulation of the sounds is pretty negligible (read:non-existent), but the story is quite different for high quality sfz sounds (and other plugin sounds alike).

Currently (on both platforms as far as I know), the "Normalize Velocities" function is set on a global scale, which I maintain is now very much an outdated way to go about it, This should be an accessible setting for each and every track individually - And that, in a nutshell, is my request.


Edited by Icelander (04/05/17 11:07 AM)
Edit Reason: Further details
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#405483 - 04/05/17 12:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
VideoTrack Offline
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Presumably this also means not editing velocities note-by-note in the MIDI editor?
If so, +1
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#405503 - 04/05/17 03:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Presumably this also means not editing velocities note-by-note in the MIDI editor?
Well sure, although I must admit I was mainly thinking about midi tracks/instruments other than the Melody/Soloist tracks here.
But of course this should obviously apply to any and all of them.
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#405524 - 04/05/17 05:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
VideoTrack Offline
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It could be done manually, but this is painstakingly slow, and painful.

I was looking for a "MIDI Compressor".

I thought it would be simple to have an algorithm that works similar to the way an Audio Compressor works. The algorithm has thresholds and applies intelligent dynamic adjustment to values based on the note velocity information.

Fellow forum member rockstar_not made this useful comment:
Go to platinumears.com and grab the velocity curve plugin. You can draw in a compression like input output curve with it. I had to do this because I didn't like the limited velocity curves in my Casio XW P1 when outputting to some piano VSTi.
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#405545 - 04/05/17 08:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
Matt Finley Offline
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I wouldn't be surprised if someone twenty-five years ago wrote a CAL script to do this in SONAR.
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#405549 - 04/05/17 09:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Matt Finley]
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I wouldn't be surprised if someone twenty-five years ago wrote a CAL script to do this in SONAR.
Yes, I'm pretty sure you are right Matt. I think the O/P was interested to find out if this can be done in BiaB. I think a plug-in would be the only way.
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#405578 - 04/06/17 04:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: VideoTrack]
John-Luke Offline
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I have already asked for that in 2013.

see Velocity for each track .

It is a shame that has not been implemented, because it is a real need if you want to work seriously with MIDI.
Now, the request comes back, we are only requesting basic features for BIAB.
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#405607 - 04/06/17 07:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I wouldn't be surprised if someone twenty-five years ago wrote a CAL script to do this in SONAR.
Yes, I'm pretty sure you are right Matt. I think the O/P was interested to find out if this can be done in BiaB. I think a plug-in would be the only way.
A thing like this can be done very easily in any half-decent DAW! I didn't just pluck this concept out of the blue for the helluvit, you know.
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#405623 - 04/06/17 08:00 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Icelander
A thing like this can be done very easily in any half-decent DAW! I didn't just pluck this concept out of the blue for the helluvit, you know.

Yes, but keep in mind that BiaB doesn't purport to be a DAW. What BiaB does is significantly different to the general functionality of a DAW. DAW's don't usually create entire songs in virtually any genre based on some user's input chords.

BiaB does.

Horses for courses.

And of course you can always take your MIDI into a DAW and adjust velocities there. To quote you "for the helluvit", maybe that's the best approach for you to take to resolve your issue. Good luck. Do let us know how you go.
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#405627 - 04/06/17 08:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
MarioD Offline
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I would agree but there is one thing you may be missing. Raising and lowering the velocity on layered samples will change the timbre of that instrument. The more layers in the patch the more change there could be. A good multi-layered French horn is a good example as there is a big difference in sound between a high and low velocity.

What I do is to bounce the MIDI to a wav then normalize that wav. That way the tonal qualities will stay the same and just the volume with be changed. YMMV.
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#405635 - 04/06/17 09:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: MarioD]
John-Luke Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
Raising and lowering the velocity on layered samples will change the timbre of that instrument. The more layers in the patch the more change there could be. A good multi-layered French horn is a good example as there is a big difference in sound between a high and low velocity.



That is also true for the clarinet, for example, which has four different registers.
Yes, the timbre will change, but that is that way real instruments sound.
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#405723 - 04/06/17 02:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
...keep in mind that BiaB doesn't purport to be a DAW.
True, but that's irrelevant here since the feature I'm talking about is already available in BBox. They've simply implemented it in a way that makes it too limited (i.e. as a one-size-fits-all thing), just like they did initially with making RT's 'simple', come to think of it.
So really all they need to do is move an existing feature into the menus for each track and voilá! - problem solved smile
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#405726 - 04/06/17 03:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: MarioD]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
Raising and lowering the velocity on layered samples will change the timbre of that instrument.===That way the tonal qualities will stay the same and just the volume with be changed.
But my request isn't about "volume", it is very specifically about velocity, I want that "timbre" control, that's the whole point.

I honestly don't think I need to tell you per se, our 'Mr. Midi-Mario' so please don't take offence, but for the benefits of others in this thread: In terms of midi sounds today, "volume" and "velocity" are most definitely NOT the same thing. And this request post is about Velocity.
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#405759 - 04/06/17 04:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Icelander
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Raising and lowering the velocity on layered samples will change the timbre of that instrument.===That way the tonal qualities will stay the same and just the volume with be changed.
But my request isn't about "volume", it is very specifically about velocity, I want that "timbre" control, that's the whole point.

I honestly don't think I need to tell you per se, our 'Mr. Midi-Mario' so please don't take offence, but for the benefits of others in this thread: In terms of midi sounds today, "volume" and "velocity" are most definitely NOT the same thing. And this request post is about Velocity.


No offense taken.

Volume and velocity are mistakenly interchanged in many messages, both here and on other site forums. I apologize for not reading your initial post more carefully as you are definitely not one of those people. My bad.

Thus I am adding a +1 to your suggestion.
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#405782 - 04/06/17 06:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
Jim Fogle Online   content
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+1. I think implementing the suggestion can be very helpful to BiaB users. Some modeled soft synths have 127 discrete velocity ranges with a change in the instrument timbre for each of the 127 steps. It is more common for sample soft synths to have four to eleven velocity ranges with a sample available for each range. This request will help users to take full advantage of velocity.
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#405798 - 04/06/17 07:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: MarioD]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
My bad.
No, your good! This distinction obviously needed to be stressed, so that the core point of the concept for the request wouldn't be misunderstood.

So you pressing the matter made this thread better, not worse cool
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#406192 - 04/08/17 03:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
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IF Mac had a piano roll it would be easy, Select All Notes > Hold Shift and drag one Velocity note up and the will all go up.
Maybe 2017 ???
There are midi plugins that would do it http://www.thepiz.org/plugins put between the midi and SFZ,
but same deal as Win you can't chain them in BB only add an FX after it, you have 1 midi then 4 FX.
The only way to chain them in BB is with MiniHost, load MiniHost in the midi track, load the Velocity normalize plugin, load SFZ.

That's a workaround until something is implemented.

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#406197 - 04/08/17 03:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Pipeline]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2845
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
IF Mac had a piano roll it would be easy, Select All Notes > Hold Shift and drag one Velocity note up and the will all go up.
Maybe 2017 ???
Well, the Beta phase has just started and I can only say - no such luck! smirk

p.s. I could write a big BBox essay starting with the words "IF the Mac had..." mad
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#406200 - 04/08/17 04:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Icelander]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2462
MIDI Velocity Amp
http://www.niallmoody.com/ndcplugs/ndcmidi.htm

http://www.niallmoody.com/ndcplugs/downloads/ndcMIDI_mac.zip

Another problem RapidComposer would solve, did you get around to trying RC, would you use it if you had it ?

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#406218 - 04/08/17 04:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: REQ: Adjusting velocities of individual midi tracks [Re: Pipeline]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
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Loc: Iceland
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Another problem RapidComposer would solve, did you get around to trying RC, would you use it if you had it ?
Not likely, tbh. For one thing, you yourself (unintentionally I'm sure) rather caused me to resent the *** thing once you started promoting it as the go-to solution for Usertracks! grin - Something that I've been proudly and stubbornly doing the 'hard' way with commercial intentions (read:pipedreams) in mind, so I admit I was less than thrilled when you came up with a way for everyone to pull it off for themselves in a (presumably) really easy way. But it's all good, how can I object to efforts to make things easier for the masses wink

Mind you, I already have Cubase as my 'fallback' thing for things where BBox comes up short, so it's not like I'm completely without alternatives.
I just prefer the 1-stop-shop whenever I can, you know.
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