Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 880
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 880 |
I would like to challenge you all to see if you can get MIDI tracks to sound as close as possible to the real instrument. So here is the challenge. Create a small 16 bar song, and include these following instruments:
Brass and Horns- trumpet, trombone, saxophone, tuba, or anyother type. Wind Instrument- food, or above, clarinet, bassoon ect Guitar Bass-upright, or electronic drum kit
No effects eq or compresstion can be used. Please tell us what vsts you used.
Last edited by Islansoul; 04/21/17 06:24 AM.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021 DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323 |
To be fair, that would imply that the real instrument plays the same melody as the MIDI instrument, otherwise you compare a carrot and a leek...
Reach for excellence
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777 |
"food"?
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783 |
I would like to challenge you all to see if you can get MIDI tracks to sound as close as possible to the real instrument. So here is the challenge. Create a small 16 bar song, and include these following instruments:
Brass and Horns- trumpet, trombone, saxophone, tuba, or anyother type. Wind Instrument- food, or above, clarinet, bassoon ect Guitar Bass-upright, or electronic drum kit
No effects eq or compresstion can be used. Please tell us what vsts you used. Why no effect? Some RTs have reverb don't they? Do you know for sure that RTs don't have any EQ or compression? Don't some guitars have overdrive?
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777 |
Why no effect?
Some RTs have reverb don't they? Do you know for sure that RTs don't have any EQ or compression? Don't some guitars have overdrive? Presumably because it's supposed to reflect "classical" music But of course even classical music uses effect touches like reverb, so I took this restriction to mean something like additional vst audio effects. You are just never going to make anything sound natural or "realistic" without reverb. Edit: I'm still wrapping my head around where "food" comes into the picture!
Last edited by Icelander; 04/21/17 08:59 AM. Reason: Afterthought
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 880
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 880 |
Fine, You can only use reverb.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021 DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783 |
......... Edit: I'm still wrapping my head around where "food" comes into the picture! Were you eating something when you posted? Do you mean we can eat while we are composing? Or did you mean flute? Inquiring minds want to know
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777 |
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353 |
You have to add effect to simulate the instrument. Place a grand piano in a sound-proofed studio or place the same piano in an empty concert hall. Do the same with a Saxophone or Trumpet or Human Voice. The recorded sound will be completely different in those different environments.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783 |
You have to add effect to simulate the instrument. Place a grand piano in a sound-proofed studio or place the same piano in an empty concert hall. Do the same with a Saxophone or Trumpet or Human Voice. The recorded sound will be completely different in those different environments. I completely agree. That is why I asked about the no effects rule. I think that all effects should be included but that is not my call.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353 |
Yes, you're of course right Mario.
The challenge is "to see if you can get MIDI tracks to sound as close as possible to the real instrument".
Well that should mean do whatever is required to make it sound real, just as long as you use a MIDI instrument. Why impose any restrictions except for 'it must be MIDI'?
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323 |
The challenge is "to see if you can get MIDI tracks to sound as close as possible to the real instrument". It depends also of the genre you play. For example, a jazz saxophone would be more difficult to perform than the same saxophone playing a classical melody.
Reach for excellence
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,353 |
Yes, and it also depends on whether you just used a keyboard or a wind controller to create the MIDI (e.g. sax, brass etc) sound.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,096
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,096 |
My personal problems:
1) Limited to VST, which I feel are inferior to better hardware synths and synth modules. Personally, I've never found a software synth that sounds better than my hardware synths.
2) No FX, perhaps no outboard FX but most synth instruments have FX built right into the synth sound, it's part of making it. Could you reproduce a distorted guitar without some distortion FX?
3) If it's a contest, how do you judge?
4) Are we judging just the solo instrument or the entire song?
5) Bitrate of the sample
Sorry, I'm picky.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323 |
Don't forget also that some MIDI sounds are not always very authentic when played as solo, but they can sound in a very acceptable way in a mix. In fact, ther are many criteria to evaluate the MIDI simulation of real instruments.
Reach for excellence
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777 |
Yes, and it also depends on whether you just used a keyboard or a wind controller to create the MIDI sax sound. And before someone notes "He's thinking classical, like Mozart, Beethoven et al", then I'll just observe that the same very much applies to oboes! I actually have a strong feeling that this whole idea came about because the OP was simply looking for ideas on what are decent VTSi choices for classical music - but why he didn't just ask that question in a post, instead of this poorly thought out "competition"...I don't know At any rate, this "for fun" thread seems to have gone quite sour pretty fast.
Last edited by Icelander; 04/23/17 05:14 AM. Reason: Afterthought
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783 |
No problem here Icelander. Specifying classical or semi-classical music at the start would have been very helpful.
I do not think that this thread has gone sour. I know myself and possibly others that that all genres were to be included thus thinking that was true was when I started questioning about effects. Most other genres use effects while classical or semi-classical would only use reverb. It makes sense now.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777 |
You know, now that I myself read it back again, his original post doesn't actually specify genre after all, you are quite right! I guess I must have deduced "classical" because of the list of instruments he did mention and the 'no fx' restrictions (both of which seem to indicate a "go for natural/acoustic" intentions). I still don't get why he didn't just go for a "What VSTi would you recommend/use?" kind of post
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,783 |
You know, now that I myself read it back again, his original post doesn't actually specify genre after all, you are quite right! I guess I must have deduced "classical" because of the list of instruments he did mention and the 'no fx' restrictions (both of which seem to indicate a "go for natural/acoustic" intentions). I still don't get why he didn't just go for a "What VSTi would you recommend/use?" kind of post OK, if you want the most realistic classical music sounds then be prepared to spend a lot of money! The best stuff cost the most. Garritan is the cheapest I would go. Not as good as the more expensive packages. I would call it fair. https://www.garritan.com/products/personal-orchestra-5/Miroslov Philharmonik 2 is better. Again not as good as the more expensive packages but a lot of people use this. I had the lite version but somehow I lost it. http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/philharmonik2/index.php?pp=philharmonik2-infoKontakt has some good orchestra sounds but wait for a half off sale: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5/The good thing about Kontakt is the third part sounds. I have Kirk Hunter's Diamond Orchestra and it is very good. But it is on the expensive side plus you need Kontakt to run it. The lasted Concert Strings are better but this serves my purpose. https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/diamond-symphony-orchestra/I also have is Spotlight Solo Strings and it is another very good package. https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/spotlight-solo-strings/I have East/West's Symphonic Choirs and they are excellent. http://www.soundsonline.com/Symphonic-ChoirsTheir orchestras sound great also. http://www.soundsonline.com/Classical-and-OrchestralWait for Kirk Hunter and East/West stuff to go on sale. I understand that SampleTank 3 has some good sounds but I can't comment as I don't own it. Listen to the audio sample of the above to get a feel of whats available. Just remember that pro MIDI musicians put those songs together. If you have a lot of money their are other orchestra sounds that go a lot more expensive. They are out of my price range. In fact right now everything is out of my price range. The above are of course just my opinions and I'm sure other may disagree. I hope this helps.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,096
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,096 |
If the OP wanted a VST shoot-out, he worded the post wrong. Been there, done that myself.
It's difficult sometimes when not getting immediate feedback to get your point across, as there is no one with a confused face to immediately mean, "What do you mean by that?" or some other clarifying question.
Me? I've tried a few VSTs and don't really like any of them as much as my hardware. But I suppose in time and as computers get even more powerful they will improve to the point where they equal dedicated modules.
So the way the original post is worded, it seems like a MIDI challenge in title and a VST challenge in the post itself.
So I ask: "What did you mean by that?"
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,584
Posts734,712
Members38,500
|
Most Online2,537 Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|