Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#415285 05/26/17 03:39 PM
Songwriting
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3
I
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
I
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3
For the last few months I am trying to create my orchestral tracks, but I would always fail for to me unknown or known reason.
Let me explain, I always start from piano.
Having chord and melody, i use bass put it on bass, put root on cellos, add syncopated notes to fill everything around, I create percussion, i add very high low volume violins moving up down to add more high freqs and atmosphere into the track.
Now problem comes when I have to add more things...
I don't know if its prohibited to add track into the questions, but I don't know how to explain without it
https://soundcloud.com/jmser/tryit
As you can hear my track starts as I explained movable strings, and than when it comes to 0:24, the disaster is starting, I tried to introduce this melody with articulations as martele, staccato, spiccato, marcato seems similar to what my brain works was with sustains (https://soundcloud.com/jmser/tryit-version-2), but actually I want to have some kind of movable track without sustain patches in it, and mostly without legato romantic slow things, I want it to jump around like crazy, in epic style.
Also, how do I fill up track more to get more rich harmony, fuller background?
As I used violins 1 for one melody, violins 2 for zig zag moves, cellos for rhytm spiccato, basses for spiccato, the most i can repeat arew violins 1 one more time to work as divisi for new melody, than i have to introduce brass too, and basically there comes problem with articulations (choosing them), with filling up the song (getting more rich harmony), and I think problem is not with melody or some theory things, not even in ranges of instruments, i think its pretty fine, but again you do say, and help me?
Thanks, James.

Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
James,

What you have sounds like a great opening for a very dramatic piece of music.

How much do you know about classical 4-part harmony? If you want to get rich, full harmony, this is the best tool in the tool box. Also, have you read any books on orchestration? Rich and full harmony also requires an understanding of how composers use 4-part harmony across the ranges of the different orchestral instruments.

One book on orchestration that I highly recommend is by Adler. It's called "The Study of Orchestration" and is found here.

I'm also a fan of Walter Piston. His book called "Harmony" was one of the best treatises I've ever read on 4-part harmony. This link is to the original version of the book. I found this much easier to read and to understand that the latter versions which had additions by Mark DeVoto.

Walter Piston also has a book on Orchestration but I have not had the chance to read through this.

(The above books are not for beginners. They all require a well developed understanding of music theory.)

Hope this helps,
Noel Adams


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Songwriting
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3
I
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
I
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3
I have a book Tonal harmony which is by Stefan Kostka.
There is written about root position writtign where they mention four part writtings.
It is this in images
To be honest I did not understand it, and I knew I will have to sooner or later.
Before that in book is basic theory about chords, how scales are formed by whole and half steps etc... and than comes this.
But as you mentioned it, can you explain me a bit.

In book they confuse me, on "Root Position Part Writing with Repeated Roots" and "FOUR-PART TEXTURES", they said:
1. All members of the triad are usually present. The final I chord is sometimes incomplete,
consisting of a 3rd and a tripled root.
2. The root is usually doubled. The leading tone (7) is almost never doubled because it is ˆ
such a strong tendency tone.

All member of the triads are present where?
Final chord, okay finishing one is probably with doubled root, instead 5th or 3rd, I can get that.
And, yeah, don't double 7th note in scale.

Root Position Part Writing with Roots a 4th
(5th) Apart
FOUR-PART TEXTURES
1. Common tone and stepwise. One method for writing this root relationship in four
parts is to keep in the same voice the tone that is common to both chords, while the
remaining two upper parts move by step in the same direction. The stepwise motion
will be ascending for root movement of a P5 down.

I don't get this one. and those others as well...
FOUR-PART TEXTURES
Two common tones and stepwise. Assuming that the fi rst of the two root position triads
has a doubled root, only one of the upper voices will need to move. Th e two upper voices
that have tones in common with the second chord remain stationary, whereas the remaining
voice moves by step. Th e stepwise motion will be upward for roots a descending 3rd
apart and downward for roots an ascending 3rd apart.

Root Position Part Writing with Roots a 2nd
(7th) Apart
FOUR-PART TEXTURES
Contrary to the bass. If the root is doubled in the first chord, as is usually the case, the
voice leading is usually quite simple: If the bass moves up by step, the upper voices move
down to the nearest chord tone, whereas if the bass moves down by step, the
upper voices move up to the nearest chord tone.


IS this what you talk about for fourth part writting?
And can you, or anyone explain it in some simple as possible way?

Thanks in advance.
- James.

Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
James,

Yes, what you mention is based on 4-part writing (tonal harmony). It's a complex field of music theory. From what you've written above, it sounds like the book that you have been reading makes understanding it quite a challenge. There are many books like this on the market.

That's why I recommended that you get hold of a copy of Walter Piston's "Harmony" (3rd editon). It sweeps away most of those complicated rules and regulations that many theory books go into.

Here is a link to a secondhand copy of that book. This is the one you should get hold of. In my experience, I've read around twenty different books on 4-part harmony, Piston's book makes harmony easiest to understand. (I actually bought a copy from Abebooks last night after typing my reply to you because I lost my book a few years ago.) As previously mentioned, the 5th edition of the book (with Mark DeVoto) is not as easy to read as Walter Piston's original book.

Unfortunately, I do not have enough time to type my way through a course on harmony for you. Try Youtube for some clips. When I went to Youtube and searched for "four part harmony tutorial", many video clips were found.

All the best with your journey.
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Did someone say 'Harmony'?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdTRq3lxnXA


Regards,

Bob

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,396
Posts732,523
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 197
Al-David 124
DC Ron 115
dcuny 87
rsdean 85
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5