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#417858 - 06/14/17 07:15 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Always enter your melody in as midi
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
Note: The following "essay" originates from an even longer reply I had made to a post elsewhere some good couple of years ago. I had been meaning to lift this section of it into its own designated "Tip" post, but something or other must've sidetracked me until I'd nearly forgotten all about it. Anyway here it is at long last:


Tip: Always spend the extra minute it takes to insert the intended melody as Midi into the Melody track before you start rendering the accompanying instruments!
You can then mute it, put a "Performance track" on it (vocal or any other thing), or use it for whatever you like. But if you need to free up that channel, then don't delete the underlying midi data until after you've rendered (and frozen!) the other tracks.
Now, you may ask, "why is this important if I'm only going to make backing tracks for a singer or something", and the core reason is simply: The program obviously can't hear your vocal, but it can detect the midi - and it does make a difference in how the accompanying realtracks turn out!! In other words, they do somewhat 'take into account' (for the lack of a better term) if the melody is there or not (or more importantly, when it's there and when not), if the midi data is there as reference. I have even got instances where, once I had entered the midi melody, a Realtrack would then on subsequent regeneration actually avoid notes of chords that otherwise might clash with the melody (that trickster of an automatically added flat nine to a seventh comes to mind). It must, however, be acknowledged here that this statement is neither absolute nor infallible. Generally speaking, this works best (or is obviously best noticeable) with RT's that have a very varied, "decorative" performance data than, say, something that is strumming the same pattern bar after bar.
But don't just take my word for this. Have a listen to these samples: The first is from BBox own "Artist" collection, and showcases how the accompanying piano provides this lovely flourish right after the melody. And the second sample is from a song I myself made, so the BBox crew couldn't possibly have prepared something specifically for it. In that sample, notice how the piano actually seems to be directly playing along with the melody, note for note!
I maintain that these cases didn't "just happen", that what you get from the Realtracks is not just arbitrary or 'random', hence my advice.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this, sorry for how long that "tip" became in the end.
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#417883 - 06/15/17 05:08 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
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Loc: South Carolina
<<< Now, you may ask, "why is this important if I'm only going to make backing tracks for a singer or something", and the core reason is simply: The program obviously can't hear your vocal, but it can detect the midi - and it does make a difference in how the accompanying realtracks turn out!! In other words, they do somewhat 'take into account' (for the lack of a better term) if the melody is there or not (or more importantly, when it's there and when not), if the midi data is there as reference.>>>

I have also found this to be true if you use multiple RealTrack instruments on the same track. It seems the current instrument anticipates the change and transition notes precede the new instrument. After much experimenting, to me, using the same track for multiple instruments in BIAB makes these changes in a much more pleasing and musical fashion than having the instruments on separate tracks or generated in RealBand.

It is also much faster and easier to do in BIAB than moving tracks to RB or any DAW...

Charlie


Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/15/17 05:09 AM)
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#417972 - 06/15/17 02:22 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Hugh2 Offline
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Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 160
Hi Icelander,
By accident I always have used midi on the melody track and I dont know why technically but it definitely has a bigger influence on the backing tracks than using just a melody without midi.Really important point u are raising .Actually it could be the one point that could improve ur backing tracks the most.Good post urs Hugh

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#417999 - 06/15/17 07:32 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
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Really nice tip Eddie!

While what you've stated can't be proven scientifically, it makes sense. Thanks for taking time to share.
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#418048 - 06/16/17 06:46 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
I don't know about "scientifically", but, as with any half-decent theory, the supporting evidence is certainly there.
I had actually been readying myself for a lot more feedback of doubts than have (this far) been posted, and as such have more details to 'argue the case-, so to speak. But, much to my joy, I have been getting next no nothing but praise...and that "essay" was really getting on a bit already wink
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#418786 - 06/21/17 04:56 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
w Offline
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Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 716
Loc: somewhere in outer space
Quote:
insert the intended melody as Midi into the Melody track



How is that done, please.

Thanks.

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#418788 - 06/21/17 05:14 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Beachboy Offline
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Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 354
Loc: Australia
So, just to clarify.
When you make a performance track on your midi melody does that process "disengage" the midi effect on future realtrack generation?
I realise that the underlying notation remains so you can revert to the midi track (after removing the performance track) but do you have to complete your real track generation prior to transforming to a performance track or does the underlying midi (under the performance track) still have an impact on realtrack generation.
Col
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#418791 - 06/21/17 05:39 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: w]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
Originally Posted By: w
Quote:
insert the intended melody as Midi into the Melody track


How is that done, please.
Most commonly via a midi capable instrument that is connected to your computer. I gather that there are ways to enter midi notes into the Melody channel from within BBox itself, but I've never learned how to do it that way since I myself do use a midi capable instrument for this purpose.
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Never finish what you can't start!
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#418793 - 06/21/17 05:54 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Beachboy]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
Originally Posted By: Beachboy
So, just to clarify.
When you make a performance track on your midi melody does that process "disengage" the midi effect on future realtrack generation?

Col
If I'm understanding your concept correctly (and that is admittedly a rather big "if" here), then the core thing to keep in mind here is simply: The accompanying RT's can never "hear" audio performance track, but it always "knows" the midi when present. So regardless what audio you actually put on top of that midi, the program still only knows what the midi data is, not the audio (or at least to a far lesser degree if at all). Therefore, the other RT's are still going to go by the midi data, which I hope is what you were asking about.
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Never finish what you can't start!
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#418794 - 06/21/17 06:06 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
An example of how I myself actually made use of that:

The core statement in my first post applies to soloist Realtracks as well as comping ones, and I had set an RT soloist solo for a certain number of bars and it stopped midways into the last bar because that bar had a melody note ahead of the next bar. Now, I actually wanted that soloist to keep on and overlap my melody so what I did was change the midi melody (moved that note's start into the next bar) but kept my audio Performance unaltered, then redid the soloist - and it worked perfectly cool
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#418800 - 06/21/17 09:40 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Beachboy Offline
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Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 354
Loc: Australia
Thanks Icelander,
So it seems that BIAB still interprets the underlying midi data (Melody track) even while the audio (performance track) is playing.
Col
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#418826 - 06/22/17 06:32 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Beachboy]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2261
Originally Posted By: Beachboy
So it seems that BIAB still interprets the underlying midi data (Melody track) even while the audio (performance track) is playing.
Col
That is my meaning, yes.
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YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
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Never finish what you can't start!
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#418866 - 06/22/17 02:08 PM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
Beachboy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 354
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Icelander
That is my meaning, yes.

Excellent. Thanks!
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#427678 - 08/26/17 11:18 AM [Post your own Tips and Tricks here] Re: Always enter your melody in as midi [Re: Icelander]
fiddler2007 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 535
Thanks for this tip ..... F

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