Just wondering who your source of encouragement is when you write/record songs? Do you get any? Do you need it? Do you write/record alone?
I ask these questions as I'm often left discouraged by the lack of encouragement in my own life including my wife and family, church, Facebook friends you name it - for me writing or recording songs is a lonely sport and I'm wondering is this normal?.
Hey Paul! I would think a possible obvious choice would be right here I think the people here are typically some of the most encouraging people you will find.
Beyond that, I try to surround myself with people with the same interest. While my wife, friend, and family are very supportive, I would understand where it maybe wouldn't be their thing. Find others who's thing it is too, and life is a different world.
I hope that helps, but not sure I did. Best of luck, and hopefully we hear from you!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I have a similar problem Paul. It can be awful, but I think a lot of it has to do with our own opinion of our talents and self confidence. Definitely try to surround yourself with friends/places that are supportive. Many people are jealous of a passion that takes up your time and find it threatening. I got told once live to stop singing and once whilst streaming. That really knocks you around. I think my wife's finest hour was to tell me I sang like a homosexual, whatever that means! A friend told me I couldn't sing blues because I sound like a 'choirboy'. Neither of them can sing in tune! Luckily, I had others who supported me and great teachers who were professionals. You have to just keep going and have fun. My wife shut up when 10 of us got a 30% discount on a buffet because I sang three tunes for the guests dining. Now she just harps on about my choice of songs. Too old etc. Life.....
Last edited by lambada; 07/20/1703:34 PM.
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Look in your area for fellow musicians, singers and songwriters. Get out in your community for open mic nights, poetry slams, retirement villas, community centers to find and meet like minded individuals. Start a music club at your local library.
Music, like many other things has become a solitary activity instead of a family or group activity. Figure out a way to meet people and start a group.
Hi Paul. Currently there is a very collaborative song writing challenge called 50 90 where song writers attempt to write 50 songs in 90 days. The catch is that you don't have to write 50! Even if you just write one. It is a very supportative environment. They have loads of stuff going on all the time. Here is the link http://fiftyninety.fawmers.org
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
Paul, my major sources of encouragement are from the showcase forum and soundcloud. I do get some encouragement as well as dis-encouragement from JonD, BobH and SteveS. Anytime you collaborate with someone it is a give and take.
Locally I have been told that I can't sing, which I agree with, can't play guitar, I'm too old to play, etc. You have to be thick skinned when you put yourself out into the public! Just don't worry about it.
Working alone on a song is a solitary job, at least for me. The above mentioned people will record something and I am left to put it all together. A lonely job but one that I enjoy, especially if the final product is one that people enjoy.
If you are in composer's block or just plain down do what I do. Put a few chords in BiaB and have the melodist generate a melody. Take everything over to your DAW and pick a few measures of the melody. It could be 2,4, 8, whatever number of measures and save them but delete the rest of the melody. Now take those measures and make a complete song out of them by adding your own parts, copy and pasting them, changing notes in the copies or whatever. It gets mind thinking and it is fun.
Also you might get inspired by a work in the woods or a good book, whatever as long as it has nothing to do with music. This also has worked for me.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
My wife and family encourages me to go to work each day and bring home a pay check. We are all well aware that time spent on music will not pay for health insurance and home repairs. As a result, my music is a personal thang. No fan club clammering for the next release.
So in fact I don't get nor need much encouragement. Now that being said, I certainly do appreciate the interactions in the different on-line music related forums. A comment I once got upon review of an offering was, "significantly better then bad". So I do fully understand my limitations. But in my heart I know I am doing pretty darn good considering the lack of talent God gave me.
my music is a personal thang. No fan club clammering for the next release. So in fact I don't get nor need much encouragement. Now that being said, I certainly do appreciate the interactions in the different on-line music related forums. A comment I once got upon review of an offering was, "significantly better then bad". So I do fully understand my limitations. But in my heart I know I am doing pretty darn good considering the lack of talent .
The above is pretty much my personal take. It's a solo process and I'm fine with that.
For me....it's just a self motivating and gratifying form of creative release. I like to write, I like to play guitar, I like to grab my clip board with an idea to flesh out, I like to turn on the power strip that turns on all the colorful component lights. I write alone and have no desire to collaborate in the lyrical sense. My wife likes my material but she doesn't inquire about what I'm working on or listen to my stuff as a habit.
I don't expect any encouragement from anyone in the outside world. Why would I....no one owes me any encouragement or compliments about my song writing efforts. I don't actively promote my songs other than my isolated interactions here. I don't have lofty goals or think what I've written are masterpieces. But, as stated above....I'm also very grateful and appreciative should someone actually listen and comment.
I only hope I can avoid pegging the 'you totally suck' meter. That's yet to be determined.
My wife and family encourages me to go to work each day and bring home a pay check. We are all well aware that time spent on music will not pay for health insurance and home repairs. As a result, my music is a personal thang. No fan club clammering for the next release.
So in fact I don't get nor need much encouragement. Now that being said, I certainly do appreciate the interactions in the different on-line music related forums. A comment I once got upon review of an offering was, "significantly better then bad". So I do fully understand my limitations. But in my heart I know I am doing pretty darn good considering the lack of talent God gave me.
Great points Dan, and a woman may well have other things planned for a man that he don't know about yet, and to say that you are heading for the studio to do a bit of recording, may get a less than encouraging response.
Glad to see there is someone else on the forum who like myself recognises that they have no great natural talent in the music department, all earned through practice alone.
Saying that I really haven't met many really talented guitarists, and most wouldn't admit it.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
I have to separate "working on music" from "playing music" or "recording music". I will often play music alone (I love to sit at the piano), but also love playing and singing with other folks. Being director of music at my church gives me that outlet.
But "working with music" tends to be a solo experience. In fact it's pretty boring for someone else to watch over your shoulder while you tweak a track to perfection.
Recording the tracks can be a group exercise with friends and was always fun with a lot of laughter in the process, but the actual processing of those tracks becomes a solitary endeavor. I think it's the nature of the business, unless your music buddy(s) are extremely patient.
Paul, you mentioned church. You should find out if someone else at your church has musical interests and get together with them occasionally. I've found lots of folks who "used to play" come out of the woodwork and pick up their instrument again just to be able to play again. Just ask around. Try to start a praise band. I did that with me and my buddy Chris, but it was just me first until I announced I was doing it and Chris came forward. Over the past 20 years, we've written probably about 20 original songs together and played countless others for church services, talent shows, open mike, retreats, etc. That two person band grew to about nine by the time we finished as others asked if they could play with us (with varying degrees of talent). Our mantra was "play what you know".
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
There's a song that I don't remember the name of or the specific lyrics but the story was about a woman that always sang songs. The problem was she always sang out of tune. Everyone continually complained about her singing. One day because of the complaints she quit singing. Then everyone realized the singing was part of her and they missed it. She started singing again and everyone was happy.
Cheers, compliments and encouragement is nice but as long as you're happy, hopefully the people around you will be too.
"What would you say if I sang out of tune, would you stand up and walk out on me? Lend me your ear and I'll sing you a song and I'll try not to sing out of key. Ooo, I get by with a little help from my friends."
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
Put a few chords in BiaB and have the melodist generate a melody. Take everything over to your DAW and pick a few measures of the melody. It could be 2,4, 8, whatever number of measures and save them but delete the rest of the melody. Now take those measures and make a complete song out of them by adding your own parts, copy and pasting them, changing notes in the copies or whatever. It gets mind thinking and it is fun.
Great idea Mario. I've often thought about taking the randomizer route.
88 Songwriting Wrongs and How To Right Them. This book has helped me to write better. When my skill improved others around me enjoyed my songs and gave me lots of encouragement. At first this book was a big put down and discouraged me as it revealed my inadequacies according to what "other people" thought was good or bad. It also revealed to my a big challenge of what I'd have to change or eliminate in order to get others to like my songs. Due to this I did not come up with anything new for quite a long time. Eventually as new song ideas came I started putting them together in a fashion that was more conducive to what others might enjoy. The result was much more inspiration from those I entertained.
Working on my vocal and guitar skills and sticking with songs that in genres that best suited for my voice and persona has been key also. The better I get the more compliments I get. = encouragement and inspiration.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
Paul, my major sources of encouragement are from the showcase forum and soundcloud. I do get some encouragement as well as dis-encouragement from JonD, BobH and SteveS. Anytime you collaborate with someone it is a give and take.
Locally I have been told that I can't sing, which I agree with, can't play guitar, I'm too old to play, etc. You have to be thick skinned when you put yourself out into the public! Just don't worry about it.
Working alone on a song is a solitary job, at least for me. The above mentioned people will record something and I am left to put it all together. A lonely job but one that I enjoy, especially if the final product is one that people enjoy.
If you are in composer's block or just plain down do what I do. Put a few chords in BiaB and have the melodist generate a melody. Take everything over to your DAW and pick a few measures of the melody. It could be 2,4, 8, whatever number of measures and save them but delete the rest of the melody. Now take those measures and make a complete song out of them by adding your own parts, copy and pasting them, changing notes in the copies or whatever. It gets mind thinking and it is fun.
Also you might get inspired by a work in the woods or a good book, whatever as long as it has nothing to do with music. This also has worked for me.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Great post Mario. I do that very often with my songwriting but also use the chord generation function. Will do a blog post on this.
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
I like to have some feedback from people that I know but often I find I get nothing. I don't expect for my wife (for example) to be with me during the process but when I've done the song and make it public and I get nothing - not even a well done - its discouraging to say the least. Some here clearly have thick skin and don't seem to need it but I think life would be so much better if there were more thought and encouragement towards others along their journey especially when creativity is involved.
I think the bottom line for me is that the people I know only get to hear my efforts on Facebook and most don't appreciate country but that's another thorn in my flesh for another day!
"What would you say if I sang out of tune, would you stand up and walk out on me? Lend me your ear and I'll sing you a song and I'll try not to sing out of key. Ooo, I get by with a little help from my friends."
Nope John, that isn't the song I'm thinking about.
Great responses all round. Some here clearly have thick skin and don't seem to need it but I think life would be so much better if there were more thought and encouragement towards others along their journey especially when creativity is involved.
My personal take...don't mean to sound condescending...just going to honest.
Well....sure it would, but were all adults here. I wouldn't want anyone to give me pats on the back with disingenuous patronizing of my material just to massage my ego or appeal to a sense of perceived frail emotions. To me....that is worse that no comments or encouragement at all.
If one doesn't garner countless unsolicited compliments then maybe one should figure how to promote themselves differently and/or rethink their song writing goals and strive to write better. Maybe most think one's songs are too simplistic, song subject in uninteresting, lyrics are a plethora of worn out cliches and/or it's poorly sung/arranged/recorded. Personal genre subjectivity also dictates our preferences.
I know...song writing is a very personal process and emotions can be affected but just because we spend agonizing amounts of time to write a song to completion does not mean it has any musical merit or appeal to the masses. That's it.
I listened to a few of your songs because of your thread here. They all seem to be in the religious praise songs genre (if I'm correct) but I don't have a religious atom in my being and don't care for preachy, message songs so I would have no comments to offer. It just occurred to me, are there some praise song forums to involve yourself with?
You've been provided some good opinions in previous posts so hope they help you come to terms with the realities us poor song writers must continually face. "Thick skin" (which I've mentioned in other threads) is essential so one can just continue on with their own personal joy of song writing.
Just toughen up....keep writing....surround yourself with those of like mind/music and song writing interests. If it helps....my fan base is non-existent also.
My earlier post was somewhat facetious, but the truth is that I had NO encouragement. When I was very young and started lessons, both parents were all like "Look at my boy only 5 years old and already playing the accordion so well." When the Beatles came to town and I decided that I wanted to play guitar, their support waned, if not vanished completely. Fast forward to the point in life when I decided to play music full time, and they both detested it, because in their minds, based on the fact that the only time they saw live music was at weddings, being a musician was not a real job.
Other people in the business understood, and many of them were supportive, but so many musicians I have known are jerks. They put other players down when that other player is better than them. Rather than elevate their own game to catch that person, the try to bring that person down to stroke their own ego. I have never seen such egomania than I have in musicians who all think they are just the best thing since pop tops on beer cans while playing that whole list of awful songs at every show. I know writers who refuse to acknowledge that anyone else on the planet writes music, yet they are afraid to play their originals at shows. I am actually pretty glad to be done with performing. Now I can write when I choose to, and not write when I choose to. Nobody hears it but me anyway (well, the dog...), so what's the point? Why bother? April of this year made 61 years I have been at music. Enough already. Time to move on to something new.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Great responses all round. Some here clearly have thick skin and don't seem to need it but I think life would be so much better if there were more thought and encouragement towards others along their journey especially when creativity is involved.
My personal take...don't mean to sound condescending...just going to honest.
Well....sure it would, but were all adults here. I wouldn't want anyone to give me pats on the back with disingenuous patronizing of my material just to massage my ego or appeal to a sense of perceived frail emotions. To me....that is worse that no comments or encouragement at all.
If one doesn't garner countless unsolicited compliments then maybe one should figure how to promote themselves differently and/or rethink their song writing goals and strive to write better. Maybe most think one's songs are too simplistic, song subject in uninteresting, lyrics are a plethora of worn out cliches and/or it's poorly sung/arranged/recorded. Personal genre subjectivity also dictates our preferences.
I know...song writing is a very personal process and emotions can be affected but just because we spend agonizing amounts of time to write a song to completion does not mean it has any musical merit or appeal to the masses. That's it.
I listened to a few of your songs because of your thread here. They all seem to be in the religious praise songs genre (if I'm correct) but I don't have a religious atom in my being and don't care for preachy, message songs so I would have no comments to offer. It just occurred to me, are there some praise song forums to involve yourself with?
You've been provided some good opinions in previous posts so hope they help you come to terms with the realities us poor song writers must continually face. "Thick skin" (which I've mentioned in other threads) is essential so one can just continue on with their own personal joy of song writing.
Just toughen up....keep writing....surround yourself with those of like mind/music and song writing interests. If it helps....my fan base is non-existent also.
Respectfully....just calling it as I see it.
Hey chulaivet1966, thanks for your valued input. Some good things you mentioned.
[quote=chulaivet1966][quote=Paul Haynes] Hey chulaivet1966, thanks for your valued input. Some good things you mentioned.
Hey Paul....
I'm very glad you took my post as I intended. Addressing adults, not as a lecture....just a reality check for us creative types who also put our creative efforts out for the world to see, comment on or judge.
I may be daft but I'm missing something in what you state above.
Chulaivet1966 -
Jim Fogle originally posted:
Quote:
There's a song that I don't remember the name of or the specific lyrics but the story was about a woman that always sang songs. The problem was she always sang out of tune. Everyone continually complained about her singing. One day because of the complaints she quit singing. Then everyone realized the singing was part of her and they missed it. She started singing again and everyone was happy.
And then I responded:
Quote:
"What would you say if I sang out of tune, would you stand up and walk out on me? Lend me your ear and I'll sing you a song and I'll try not to sing out of key. Ooo, I get by with a little help from my friends."
And then Jim responded back:
Quote:
Nope John, that isn't the song I'm thinking about.
And then I responded back:
Quote:
I realized that, but it's the song your post made me think of and I think the sentiment is valid in this context.
Some of them got lost in the thread of other postings, hence the confusion. Hopefully it's now clear.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
Jim. Maybe you are referring to the true story of Florence Foster Jenkins? I saw the movie with Meryl Streep in the lead. The best line was at the end when she was dying she said something like "they may say that I couldn't sing but they will never say that I didn't sing".
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
Been gone a few weeks. I'm pointing back to the book 88 Song Writing Wrongs... If you are hoping to get encouragement from others who hear your songs perhaps re-arrange them or make a few changes so they are more appealing to those you hope to gain encouragement from.
Also, you might offer to allow someone to collaborate on them. Which would mean you'd have to accept some changes offered by someone else's opinion. Being open to changes can be very encouraging. If you don't like the changes someone else makes to your song go back to the original or use their changes for ideas.
You might also ask someone else to sing them for you. I do this and I also sing other writers songs for them. Some times that's for demo purpose but some times they keep all or part of my vocal tracks. Other times that have a different singer replace mine or their vocal tracks. The idea is to find the vocalist that best expresses the song.
Question; Have you become more encouraged over the time period since you created this thread? Why? Why not? What was it that made you feel better? Worse? Have you applied any of the suggestions mentally, on paper, on instrument, on voice?
BTW, I listened to your 3 original songs on SoundCloud and I like all 3. I think if you brightened up your lead vocal with EQ and Compression or something that would get your voice to sound crisp and stand out a bit they would be great. I think those three songs are written as good or better than most of the local song writers I hear.
I, too, have had very little encouragement from family with my songwriting. Both of my kids play guitar, bass, but neither is all that interested in what I write. No wife or girlfriend ever provided me with much encouragement or enthusiasm with maybe one exception. And still, I struggle onward.
Writing is a lonely endeavor to be sure. And although I know a lot of good songwriters I just never have been able to co-write successfully. I seem to need to "surround" a song idea before I can write. Now, given a good song idea I can usually run with it: Joanne Cooper came up with the story for "Heather and Juniper" (see the User Showcase for more info) and I wrote the lyrics in about 30 minutes. But generally the actual writing process has always been a solitary endeavor for me. Oh, I can co-produce with others once the songwriting is done easily enough. But that beginning process is never easy. I always remember a James Taylor quote regarding his own songwriting challenges: "It doesn't come often, and it doesn't come easy." I found that statement encouraging in a defiant sort of way. So I struggle onward.
Songwriting motivation can come from some unusual places. Several years ago I produced an audiobook for Audible (now owned by Amazon.com) for a client, my first introduction to the literary writing world. Later I produced (it's called editing in the book world) two printed books for the same client. As with most NEW endeavors I became interested enough to want to try writing. I wrote and published one book ("The Songsmith"...imagine that) and an audiobook, and am well on the way in a second book. The point is literary writing really gave me some new insights to apply to songwriting. Particularly, I started writing a short, very short, story about whatever song I wanted to write. The process made me really focus on the foundation of my songwriting and actually made the process of starting a song a lot easier. If the short story sucks...I don't honor it with hours of lyric writing, and hours of studio work. I look for another idea. Songwriting is the "instant gratification" endeavor of the creative world in my experience. A novel takes months to write, mine took three, and a daily commitment to writing for an hour or more. While, on a good day, I've come up with a song idea in the morning and had a fairly good finished demo by day's end. By the way, only BIAB will let you do something like that. Another subject altogether.
I think all songwriting methods are valid if they work for you. But keeping yourself up and in the game requires a least a bit of dedication to the art/science of songwriting. READ about songwriting, build a little library of how-to books, listen to a lot of music, especially singer-songwriter stuff. Go listen to some live music. Luckily we have tons of that around Denver and Boulder, and a famous songwriting school in Lyons in the summer. Find what really motivates you and hit that button till you wear it out. And finally, THINK about what you want to write. Don't just throw junk at the wall to see what sticks. Be incisive and thoughtful about your songwriting. If you don't love the song idea you come up with, at least in my experience, you won't find the motivation to give it your best efforts. Done right, songwiting is hard work. It's a lonely experience mostly. "It doesn't come often, and it doesn't come easy."
I know a few songwriters who are disappointed that their friends and family do not support and encourage them but you have to remember that this is YOUR hobby and NOT THEIRS! They may be really interested when you show up with your first song but when you bring unreleased album number 5 out and expect them to be as excited about it as you are...well, you are almost certain to be disappointed!
With that said I have found online communities where everyone supports each other...I listen to yours and you listen to mine (not unlike this site's showcase!) But, of course, in those scenarios you are not the "star", rather, you are one of many and the responses you get will be reflective of your level of participation. Actually I have found that even friends and family will be more supportive if you also take time to show support for their hobbies and passions!
That phrase is where this starts to split into 2 divergent concepts.
Hobby? Who needs encouragement for their hobby? Stamp collecting, making scrapbooks, gardening, sewing..... those are hobbies. You just do a hobby because you have spare time and not a care in the world about how it turns out.
It is a very different situation when you are paying for a house, feeding a family, keeping a car running.... on money made from music. A lot of people here did that for some portion of their life. Some, like Notes for example, still do. I needed encouragement THEN, when music was how I earned my living, and I had none. I had DIScouragment from people who didn't understand that playing music WAS a job.Now, I write for me and I don't care what anybody thinks.
So level of involvement has a lot to do with this topic. In a way, that lack of encouragement made me better at what I did. The defiant streak in me, and I have that in abundance, drove me to show them they were all wrong. And when I quit playing full time, and soon after I quit completely, it wasn't because I was discouraged by it. I was just bored with it. They did not win. I stopped "racing". When I did the CD 2 years ago, I had 100 pressed and sold 45. But, that was more a labor of love and a bucket list thing. I didn't expect an Album of the Year Grammy for a self produced album. (Good thing, too! LOL!)
So in my case, I have to amend the thread title from Source of ENCOURAGEMENT to Source of Motivation. NOBODY is going to tell me I can't do something.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
That phrase is where this starts to split into 2 divergent concepts.
Hobby? Who needs encouragement for their hobby? Stamp collecting, making scrapbooks, gardening, sewing..... those are hobbies. You just do a hobby because you have spare time and not a care in the world about how it turns out.
It is a very different situation when you are paying for a house, feeding a family, keeping a car running.... on money made from music. A lot of people here did that for some portion of their life. Some, like Notes for example, still do. I needed encouragement THEN, when music was how I earned my living, and I had none. I had DIScouragment from people who didn't understand that playing music WAS a job.Now, I write for me and I don't care what anybody thinks.
So level of involvement has a lot to do with this topic. In a way, that lack of encouragement made me better at what I did. The defiant streak in me, and I have that in abundance, drove me to show them they were all wrong. And when I quit playing full time, and soon after I quit completely, it wasn't because I was discouraged by it. I was just bored with it. They did not win. I stopped "racing". When I did the CD 2 years ago, I had 100 pressed and sold 45. But, that was more a labor of love and a bucket list thing. I didn't expect an Album of the Year Grammy for a self produced album. (Good thing, too! LOL!)
So in my case, I have to amend the thread title from Source of ENCOURAGEMENT to Source of Motivation. NOBODY is going to tell me I can't do something.
Dunno why you view those who did not encourage you as your opponents or enemies! "I don't care what anybody thinks." "They did not win." And regardless of whether it is your hobby or your job I don't understand why you would feel entitled to encouragement from others. I don't know your story of course but personally I don't expect others to support or encourage my hobbies or my career! If they do that is a nice bonus and I will definitely return the favor to them.
J3, I wasn't "not encouraged". I was DIScouraged. My own family members continued to try and tell me why I needed a job from 9-5 and then somehow find time to practice alone, rehearse with a band, and gig 5 nights a week. All because THEY grew up in a world with a timecard and a lunch bucket. Constantly harping. Calling me during the day to find a way to get around to the subject, telling me about jobs they found in the paper for me. I replied every time "I have a job. I am a musician.", and hung up the phone. Finally I quit talking to them. Both parents are now long since gone but the one sister I have, who hated that I found some level of success in music and she went nowhere in life (having been groomed in the 50s and 60s school of thought where the females were supposed to somehow finish high school, find a man, have babies, and stay home - EXACTLY what she did) I have not spoken to in 16 years. I am so glad that societal paradigm changed, or a lot of intelligent, talented women would have never had the opportunity to bloom.
In my world, college was for the rich kids. I had to go into the Army to get the GI Bill to attend college. I ALMOST fell into the trap where your environment dictates your future, like the inner city teaches now. Kids that see nothing but poverty and unemployment can easily assume that there is no other option, that it never gets any better. As far as your assertion that I felt like I was entitled to encouragement, that is ridiculous. Nobody is entitled to anything. Never were. That is a 2000s word and I came up in the 50s and 60s. However, in the same breath, is not the duty of parents to try and help their kids become all they can be? To give them the space to choose their own path and urge them to excel? I had none of that. Had I bought into their program I would have worked in a dead end job for 45 years and then retired in the lower middle class.
So to boil that all down, as I said before, you can say that in a very real way, my source of encouragement was discouragement, though motivation is a better word.
Last edited by eddie1261; 08/16/1704:23 PM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
This is a very interesting thread indeed. My sister is the only one amongst my family who gives me any sort of encouragement... I used to take it personally (as in "my music is no good") but I am over that now and soldier on anyway (as so eloquently mentioned by Bob) because I love it. Everyone has to find their own path in life and you can't rely on other people to bring you happiness.
Edited to add: my daughter does come to the National Arts Festival with me and gives me support there, for which I am very grateful.
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 08/16/1708:50 PM.
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
"J3, I wasn't "not encouraged". I was DIScouraged. My own family members continued to try and tell me why I needed a job from 9-5 and then somehow find time to practice alone, rehearse with a band, and gig 5 nights a week. All because THEY grew up in a world with a timecard and a lunch bucket. Constantly harping. Calling me during the day to find a way to get around to the subject, telling me about jobs they found in the paper for me. I replied every time "I have a job. I am a musician.", and hung up the phone. Finally I quit talking to them. Both parents are now long since gone but the one sister I have, who hated that I found some level of success in music and she went nowhere in life (having been groomed in the 50s and 60s school of thought where the females were supposed to somehow finish high school, find a man, have babies, and stay home - EXACTLY what she did) I have not spoken to in 16 years. I am so glad that societal paradigm changed, or a lot of intelligent, talented women would have never had the opportunity to bloom.
In my world, college was for the rich kids. I had to go into the Army to get the GI Bill to attend college. I ALMOST fell into the trap where your environment dictates your future, like the inner city teaches now. Kids that see nothing but poverty and unemployment can easily assume that there is no other option, that it never gets any better. As far as your assertion that I felt like I was entitled to encouragement, that is ridiculous. Nobody is entitled to anything. Never were. That is a 2000s word and I came up in the 50s and 60s. However, in the same breath, is not the duty of parents to try and help their kids become all they can be? To give them the space to choose their own path and urge them to excel? I had none of that. Had I bought into their program I would have worked in a dead end job for 45 years and then retired in the lower middle class.
So to boil that all down, as I said before, you can say that in a very real way, my source of encouragement was discouragement, though motivation is a better word"
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And all of that puts you in good company, didn't John Lennons aunt Minnie discourage him as well and tell him to get a proper job.
With a few exceptions I feel there is little money to be made from music, for most of us it is a hobby.
From reading the forum down through the years I can only think of a few people who have made a good living out of music and that partly comes from being good with money, and cutting back on other things in life (their choice of course)
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
With a few exceptions I feel there is little money to be made from music, for most of us it is a hobby.
Yep....I've felt that way for a couple decades and have had no desire to meet the protocols necessary to embark upon that demanding, unpredictable path. One would have to write in the genre that's popular, pay some dues with rejection/disappointment/perseverance and get connected to the industry in other ways.
I do get encouragement from about (4) long time musician friends that actually like my songs but I never get song writing encouragement/commentary or interest from my wife....never have. If she were asked she'd say she likes my efforts but I'm sure she's just being polite. She's just uninterested.
As stated above song writing (along with many other creative interests) is a lonely sport. The way see it no one owes me any comments, encouragement or validation. But....if someone does generously give a listen and comment....I'm damn grateful and would thank them graciously.
What we do as writers/composers is not for frail egos if we decide to promote ourselves and offer them up for comments/scrutiny on the internet.
We just have to be comfortable with what we do. So...I would just 'encrourage' all of us to keep writing and strive to improve according to our personal expectations.
Jim. Maybe you are referring to the true story of Florence Foster Jenkins? I saw the movie with Meryl Streep in the lead. The best line was at the end when she was dying she said something like "they may say that I couldn't sing but they will never say that I DIDN'T sing".
Excellent quote, Joanne! And I think it serves the original point very well.
If somebody WANTS to write songs, they should do so for their own reasons rather than quit for other peoples' reasons.
But obviously, any goal can be hard to sustain without encouragement. The easiest way to get encouragement is by posting your music here on the user showcase. There can be a wide range of criticism on some music forums, but this one is full of people who tend to speak about what they like more than about what they don't like.
Jim. Maybe you are referring to the true story of Florence Foster Jenkins? I saw the movie with Meryl Streep in the lead. The best line was at the end when she was dying she said something like "they may say that I couldn't sing but they will never say that I DIDN'T sing".
Excellent quote, Joanne! And I think it serves the original point very well.
If somebody WANTS to write songs, they should do so for their own reasons rather than quit for other peoples' reasons.
But obviously, any goal can be hard to sustain without encouragement. The easiest way to get encouragement is by posting your music here on the user showcase. There can be a wide range of criticism on some music forums, but this one is full of people who tend to speak about what they like more than about what they don't like.
So true. It's the incredibly fortunate person who gets encouragement from family and friends... I'm blessed to have an encouraging spouse.
Encouragement. Whenever I do something I think sounds great. That's encouragement. And my standards keep rising.
But ... from other people, yes, we do like people to enjoy our work as well. My wife is passively discouraging while verbally in a "that's nice that you like to do that, dear" encouraging. Actually her reflexive criticisms, while they hurt at the time, made me try harder. She wasn't wrong about a lot of it. She's the person I would like to like it the most, but ... I've resigned myself to the fact that's not gonna happen. She does say I've gotten a lot better. But I never get asked to play anything. Not even the one I wrote for her.
I get some encouragement from friends who see my videos I post links to on facebook, and over the years I have gotten some nice comments from random YouTube users. Oddly the video that's gotten FAR more hits than any other by a couple orders of magnitude is an old bad recording of me covering Bob Seeger's "Beautiful Loser". No idea why. I mean, it was the best I could do at the time, and I'm flattered, but it kind of baffles me. (Ok, I lied. "The Spirit is a Movin'", from the same era, has more).
Probably the most encouragement I've gotten was an old college friend who has been my biggest cheerleader from the start and continues to do it. One might say if not for her, I wouldn't be here on this forum, and "Alive" would never have happened.
She introduced me to Brad Fitch, through whom I met Bob Buford here, who introduced me to Band in a Box and pushed me into better production. He also pushed me into concentrating more on singing, which it turns out I like doing a lot more than I thought I would.
Which all means I can make more stuff I think sounds great.
I guess I'm just temperamentally a glass-half-full kind of guy. Since the advent of the internet-indie scene, I've had at least one track top 1000 listens. I suppose every other track taken together have garnered maybe 3000 more. If all those listens were individuals, I filled a hall.
On top of that, I've gotten hundreds of comments--quite a few of them seemed genuine. And I've also gotten to work with superior musicians on song-writing collaborations that I would have had no chance to do in the "real world".
I might trade that for the talent, chops, guts, and drive to play live. But every time I've picked up a guitar (and before that, a uke) to "practice", it has turned into at least an earnest attempt to write a song. That's what gets my mojo rising.
Me and a guitar on a small stage has worked the few times I've done it, but if I was waiting for the next stage to do the same thing--it'd be a loooong wait. Besides, they were there to be entertained and people really don't like to NOT like your act. Family and friends are not there to be entertained and they really don't want to be put in the position of having to "like" your act.
Since, however, I'm not a particularly good singer it takes a more specialized "audience" to appreciate what I do. Few of my family or friends are that "audience". Really ,none are consistently.
When people "get over" the vocals of a Bob Dylan, or Kristofferson, or Johnny Cash then they can appreciate what those guys do. For each of them, it took somebody else to be their "special audience" first. There aren't any music columnists writing about Farfetched Tangmo Band and why anybody should listen.
Whatever the degree of "polish" any of my songs may have, I'm still writing Demos. That's my limitation. Nobody can do it all in music (except maybe Paul McCartney).
Before music was recorded, it was all played live. And most of that in small venues or on the front porch of the cave. That's the internet indie scene, and that's cool with me.
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