PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Can harddrive access cause Audio Stutter?

Hello

I've installed BB on new machine with 1.6Ghz processor, 8Gb RAM.
But I've noticed audio stutter after playing a few songs. It happens randomly.
Even used external Audio Interface, shut down all unnecessary processes, but still has the problem.

So just asking if it could perhaps be Harddrive access?
Realdrums & Realtracks are on my C: drive

What are you remaining specs? 1.6GHz what kind of processor? 8 GB RAM won't be your problem. Do you know what speed your hard drive is?

Does it stutter every time you play or just the first time? If just the first time, it could be the hard drive as BIAB continues to generate the remainder of the song as it starts to play. The second time through, the song has already been generated (assuming no changes were made), so no background generation occurs in that case.

Short answer is yes, absolutely.

Lots of reasons.

As John said, tell us more. 1.6 is rather low nowdays, so I'm thinking laptop?

Several things to try, but start by addressing John's questions. Also download and run the free utility, Geekbench, and report the single-core score.

There is a setting in Options, Preferences, RealTracks to address the problem John cited. And there are other related settings, all without touching the operating system. But we need to know more.

A few years ago, I had quite a lot of audio stuttering and it turned out that the culprit was a highly fragmented hard drive.

I ran Windows defrag over night and the next time I worked with audio, all the stuttering was gone.

I've also had an antivirus program cause stuttering. Because the av program was constantly checking, when working with audio, the computer was multitasking beyond its ability. When I excluded my audio-related and BIAB/RB-related folders from being checked by the av program, the stuttering stopped.

• my latest song : I Like Walking Beside You

Good idea. But since this is a new computer, it may have an SSD drive (which of course should not be defragged). We need more info.

This might help, too...

Right-click on the chord sheet, select "Song Settings", and then activate the option that disables fast generation of Realtracks (see image below).

This forces all the backing to be generated before BIAB starts playing. It will take 30 seconds or so longer to generate a song but it could stop the stuttering.

Fast RT generation is a background process and uses significant computer resources. If the song you are playing is a fairly fast tempo, it might be that the tast generation cannot work quickly enough to stay ahead.

By the way, the Belarc Advisor is a nice tool to find out exactly what the configuration of your computer is, as well as tell you its security posture. It's free to use and generates more than you'll ever want to know about your computer. It queries a lot of your system and comes back with a pretty detailed picture of processor, memory, hard drives, peripherals, video, audio, etc.

Thanx for this John. I had never heard of it before and it looks like a good tool to have.

HI everyone

thanks for the info:
My info:
Yes its a mini laptop &-inch Tablet PC
OS: Win10 Home
HDD: SSD drive 128Gb capacity
Processor: Intel Atom x7-Z8750 @ 1.6GHz
RAM: 8Gb
System: x64bit
Audio: Realtek

PC website: http://www.geekbuying.com/item/GPD-Pocket-7-Inch-Tablet-PC-Intel-Atom-X7-Z8750-8GB-128GB-375711.html


The song generation is all fine and plays well even with 4 realtracks loaded.

It just unexpectedly (during a gig) starts this "heart-beat" type audio stutter

Yep second Belarc!

Another thing is:

I ran another test with all system drivers loaded, firefox browser running, and put BIAB in Jukebox Mode, looping about 100 songs (each time new song generation)...no problem...but then at other times, unexpectedly, it does the audio stutter thing after just a few songs

Below is some Belarc test Results:

Main Circuit Board b Board: AMI Corporation Default string Default string
Serial Number: Default string
Bus Clock: 80 megahertz
UEFI: American Megatrends Inc. 5.11 05/26/2017

Processor a 1.60 gigahertz Intel Atom x7-Z8750
224 kilobyte primary memory cache
2048 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (4 total)
Not hyper-threaded

Drives 124.11 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
9.57 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

Samsung DJNB4R [Hard drive] (125.07 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 7923fe24

IMHO the tablet OS is the most likely issue.
Maybe the way it handles HDD or other resources but I'm guessing "Intel Atom" is part of the issue.

Mysterious problems like this are the most difficult to troubleshoot, but your posts do give some clues.
You're not working in a normal Windows environment compared to most users from what I can tell.

OK, now we're talking real facts with the PC specs.

You don't even have a "harddrive" as in the post title. You have a solid state drive. This is great, the best thing about that PC by far! I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.

The Geekbench single-core score will reveal if the Atom CPU is adequate for BIAB.

In the meantime, go into Options, Preferences, Realtracks and find several checkboxes related to "slow PCs" and make those adjustments.

Did it come with a whole bunch of software preloaded? Blowing that away might help a lot.

Just a few unnecessary programs...

Here is the Geekbench Score:

Single-Core Performance
Single-Core Score 634
Crypto Score 276
Integer Score 688
Floating Point Score 412
Memory Score 938

Biab just plays from RAM, have you tried ASIO4All on the Realtek.

That doesn't matter, Biab won't run well on an Atom processor. 634? That's barely half of the minimum needed. 10 year old Core Duo's still score in the 1100 range and that's about as low as you can go.

Bob

RAM ... found with a lot of software that you need sufficient RAM, i went for 32 GB now, maybe an overkill, but (let alone for occasional windows issues itself) my win10 64bit PC runs smoothly with a lot of programs loaded at times. Also found this with a laptop some years ago. - F

Yes, its a strange score...I have another tablet with same processor with a score of 1300..so this score of 634 seems strange..

And I found this info online from: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+x7-Z8700+%40+1.60GHz

Intel Atom x7-Z8700 @ 1.60GHz
Average CPU Mark
Socket: BGA1380
Clockspeed: 1.6 GHz
Turbo Speed: 2.4 GHz
No of Cores: 4
Typical TDP: 4 W

Could it also perhaps be related to the soundcard sample rate?

BB is at 44100 Samples..
My soundcard is set at 48000, and cannot be changed

If ASIO4All hasn't helped get your task manager up and look at the CPU usage when it stutters by clicking on CPU at the top to bring the highest usage app to the top. See if anything else is using the CPU also.

Thanks Pipeline. Will try that

Concentrate on the CPU. 634 is not enough (see Bob’s comments). If another of the same model scores higher, either this one is defective, or it’s throttled. To fix that, go into the Windows Control Panel and make sure the Power Settings are all set to the max (100%).

Hi Matt

I ran the Geekbench test again after a full charge and reboot.

The result is as follows:
Single-Core Score 1169
Multi-Core Score 3487

Very good, rallypally.

My guess is that, with a discharged battery, Windows went into power-saving mode and throttled back your CPU speed. Once fully charged, you are back to normal. You could set that to not do the throttling as I mentioned, but then your laptop battery would run down more quickly. This is a choice you have to make (or run the laptop plugged in when doing music).

However - that Geekbench score is the bare minimum to run BIAB. Use as few RealTracks as possible, and follow my recommendations above about Options, Preferences, RealTracks. Let us know how it works.

ok will do

Thank you very much Matt, and everyone for their input

Have a great day all!

Rally

Thanks. As a former comp. sci. prof, I love doing this stuff.

Your RAM is fine. Your soundcard rate: RealTek is about the worst soundcard out there, and is typical in these basic laptops. ASIO4ALL was suggested; it might give you an improvement and is worth a try. You could do even better with an external USB soundcard, even say a basic Focusrate 2i2 or 2i4. You could then run at the correct sample rate. However, I don't think the sample rate has anything to do with your immediate problem; that's plain old CPU horsepower and we've given you a few suggestions to deal with it. All these other things are minor in comparison.

I'm surprised that the sound card is locked at 48,000. I have RealTek in two of my PC's and both allow the rate to be changed.

Right; I wonder if the drivers from this vendor are different? That’s why ASIO4ALL might work better. Just guessing, though.

Yea. It's locked, maybe coz it's a Chinese brand, not sure. I have a Xiaomi MI2 Tablet and this new machine. Both Realtek locked at 48000

I'll give ASIO4ALL a go.
I also have an external ZOOM U44 audio interface which I can use

I was just wondering..

I installed the program "Equalizer APO", before I experienced problems...

Could this program maybe be a possible cause?

Coz I just noticed all media programs (itunes windows, Bee music player) after a while has the stutter problem

Seeing it's a system-wide application, it could cause issues.

A couple of ways to find out, that I can think of, would be...

1. Open task manager and see what's running and what is using resources when the stuttering happens (I think this has already been suggested - I haven't read back up the thread to double-check, though).

2. The program looks to be opensource software. If that's the case, it costs nothing to install/uninstall it...

Why not uninstall it run your system without it for a while.... then re-install it in a few days and see what happens.

Regards,
Noel

It's a system EQ, it says low CPU usage but non the less CPU usage, so I would uninstall it and try.

ok..did the uninstall and same probkem.

BUT, strange thing just happened.
I had my earphones plugged into the jack..When the stuttering started,I pulled it out of the socket and back in again, stuttering stopped, and playback continued as normal!

In the Task manager is the CPU usage fluctuating when it stutters ?

No, CPU usage looks normal

And the stutter only audible through headphone or usb ports...dont hear stutter through built-in speaker

and the same with the "external Audio Interface" ?

Yes.

The sound sub-system of the O/S has the ability to detect connection / disconnection of audio devices (microphones, speakers etc). This 'might' have been enough to create an interrupt to the audio functionality to appear that it has been resolved (corrected itself).

The graph created in Process Explorer shows what used max CPU cycles and Memory during the monitored period. Perhaps this might help.

thanks Videotrack

You're welcome, but please give us feedback of your findings.

So you get stutter with the headphones but not internal speakers.
What if you run Line Out from the headphone jack to a set of speakers, do you get the stutter you get with the headphones ?
Does the RealTek HD Audio Manager pop up and ask what you have plugged in ?

Maybe we need to define ‘audio stutter’ better. Can you record a few seconds of the problem, so we can hear what you hear? Then put that audio file on Dropbox and post a link to it. One of us will surely recognize it.

ok...i will do the recording and post soon

it sounds like you listening to your heart-beat through a stethescope

headphones and line plugged into speakers, and USB audio interface

So it just started doing this last week ?
Has it got a factory reset/recovery partition, so you can backup your files then do a factory reset ?

yes it has a recovery partition..but I'll do a reset as last resort..i only have the machine for 3 weeks

By 'stutter' I assume you mean start/stop abruptly.

Does the song stay in time, or does the 'stutter' cause a break for a short period of time and the song resumes streaming where is was after the last heard sample?

Another way of asking; is the audio signal getting interrupted but otherwise the song plays normal (in time, but just the audio cuts in/out), or is the song getting short pauses in the tempo and flow as a result?

The difference is a clue as to whether the audio signal is getting interrupted before or after the device drivers start handling it.
It could be an unsteady flow of data to the device or it could be a problem with the device drivers, or even resources. Maybe the CPU is hardly working but the hard drive is over taxed (causing the aforementioned unsteady flow of data to the device in the first place).
As mentioned above, a sample recording would help narrow it down.

Exactly. I also asked about other software a long time ago and the DPC Latency Checker (or Process Monitor) would be helpful here to see if an interrupt is causing this. We will know immediately if we can hear a sample.

Here is the Dropbox link to audio problem...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/njxd6i8zageqz3c/GPD%20Audio%20Problem.mp3?dl=0

Wow. I have never heard anything like that.

Anyone?

No, definitely not what I was expecting. I'd be really interested to see what is using CPU cycles when that occurs. The rhythm of the events is unusual, in that it is so regular.

It seems like hardware problem but it does the same with your usb sound device.
You can try Hiren's Boot CD on USB https://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd-on-usb-disk

https://sourceforge.net/projects/hirenscd2bootableusb/

that has RealTek Audio drivers, so it might tell you if it is a Win10 problem or hardware problem before having to do a factory restore.

EDIT: Or a Win7 Live USB
http://www.intowindows.com/two-ways-to-create-windows-7-live-usb-drive/

I'm gonna uninstall all the windows updates since I bought the machine and see if the problem still persists...

Do you have a restore point(s)? Just try going back one at a time of course.

Backup your system with an image to an external HD prior to doing this. It could save you a lot of time and aggravation.

I'm late to the party....

But I have a few questions.... I didn't see these asked or answered ..... or perhaps I missed them in skimming the 4 pages of replies.

1. What is the brand and model of the "external audio interface" being used?

2. What driver mode are you using with it?


Most of the skipping and stuttering I have seen and experienced, was a direct result of the buffers not being large enough or the driver mode mot being totally compatible with the interface.

It is totally possible to use MME and other drivers with a quality interface. However, in doing so, you end up with poor performance and stuttering as well as latency and other issues such as pops and drops.

Check to see first that the external interface is set as the default sound card and then be sure you have selected the external interface as in and out for both audio and midi, and be sure you have selected the ASIO driver mode. Start with the default ASIO settings. Often, they will work just fine with no tweeking.

I have run BB for over a decade using some pretty ancient (by today's standards) computers with very limited speed and memory and they all ran BB as well as my other audio DAW's with relative ease.

3. Is the project a straight up 100% audio project or does it use and include midi tracks as well?

Again, the external interface running anything less than ASIO can and often does have problems when the project has a mixture of audio and midi. It's the midi stuff that causes the audio issues. It has to be rendered to audio and there's a delay in the processing between when it reads the data and gets the audio to the speakers. That delay is called Latency. Every computer and sound card has it. But with the right driver and set up properly, that latency will be negligible to the listener and everything sounds like it's synced up. If the driver mode can't handle the processing, and/or the buffers are not sized correctly, and there's multiple midi tracks to render, this can cause the program to pause for a split second to allow it to "catch up". You hear that as a stutter. If it's bad enough, the music in the tracks can get out of sync or in some cases, the program actually just stops totally resulting in a drop.

On my old duo-core laptop, I could load up a really large project with 15 to 20 tracks, load it with some processing intensive VSTs and get it to stutter and choke even with good drivers. Smaller BB projects with 5 or 6 tracks like BB supports were never an issue.

Have a look at the interface and the driver mode, set them up properly, and see if that doesn't solve the problem.

Herb, this was his comment on that subject, but it is still unclear what equipment he used to cause that crazy sound. He has an underpowered laptop with a realtek sound card.

"I'll give ASIO4ALL a go.
I also have an external ZOOM U44 audio interface which I can use"

hi everyone

well, I've come to the conclusion that the issue is not specific to BB.

Seems to be either hardware or Windows software problem, coz randomly, also occurs when playing audio through other media players or audio via websites..and not related to the onboard or external soundcards...

I noticed today, that besides playing audio, when I launched an application, the same throbbing sound occurred

The Microsoft Surface Pro 3 with Windows 10 had an audio problem with headphones that cause stuttering. It was a Realtek driver issue that Microsoft had fixed. Might be something with your Realtek drivers

In my device manager under "sound, video & game controllers" is this listed:

Intel SST Audio Device (WDM)
Realtek l2S Audio Codec

So is it the Realtek codec or Intel Audio Device?

You say it is doing the same using an external card, that's why I suggested to boot the tablet into Hiren's OS bypassing Win10 OS this way you can find out quickly if it's a hardware or software specific problem.
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=425745#Post425745

Does the Zoom support ASIO?

Yes. The Zoom U44 works with both Mac and Windows operating systems. The Windows driver works with Win 7, 8, 8.1 and 10.

More information is available +++ HERE +++. The page also has a list of DAWs the audio interface has been tested against.

OK... now... is he using ASIO?

A valid question, so we know when this arises again.

hi guys

yes, tried ASIO, same issue

think maybe I should reset the machine from factory settings