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#426697 - 08/19/17 12:31 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Can Someone please help?
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
** I'm not technically savvy so please be kind to me***

My BIAB laptop is under performing - it stutters and stops during songs. F12 is my best friend smile

From reading earlier forum posts, I downloaded & ran Geek Bench, but the results mean nothing to me.

Can someone please tell me what the results mean?
Apart from BIAB I don't run anything from this laptop - it has no virus protection and limited internet access.


TOSHIBA Satellite A500


Single-Core Score

Multi-Core Score


1358 1536

Geekbench 4.1.1 Tryout for Windows x86 (32-bit)

Result Information


Upload Date August 19 2017 07:01 AM
Views 1

System Information

TOSHIBA Satellite A500


Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (32-bit)
Model TOSHIBA Satellite A500
Processor Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 @ 2.19 GHz
1 processor, 2 cores
Processor ID GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10
Processor Codename Penryn
Processor Package Socket P (478)
L1 Instruction Cache 32 KB x 2
L1 Data Cache 32 KB x 2
L2 Cache 2048 KB
L3 Cache 0 KB
Motherboard TOSHIBA KSKAA
Northbridge Intel GM45/GM47 07
Southbridge Intel 82801IM (ICH9-M) 03
BIOS TOSHIBA V2.00
Memory 4096 MB DDR2 SDRAM 399MHz

Single-Core Performance

Single-Core Score

1358
Crypto Score

76
Integer Score
1647

Floating Point Score
1101
Memory Score
1417

AES
76
59.2 MB/sec

LZMA
1860
2.91 MB/sec


JPEG
1879
15.1 Mpixels/sec


Canny
1268
17.6 Mpixels/sec


Lua
1347
1.38 MB/sec


Dijkstra
2095
1.42 MTE/sec


SQLite
1483
41.1 Krows/sec


HTML5 Parse
1410
6.40 MB/sec


HTML5 DOM
1885
1.71 MElements/sec


Histogram Equalization
1482
46.3 Mpixels/sec


PDF Rendering
1292
34.3 Mpixels/sec


LLVM
2534
174.3 functions/sec


Camera
1668
4.63 images/sec


SGEMM
512
10.8 Gflops


SFFT
699
1.74 Gflops


N-Body Physics
1005
750.8 Kpairs/sec


Ray Tracing
989
144.5 Kpixels/sec


Rigid Body Physics
1644
4814.7 FPS


HDR
1764
6.40 Mpixels/sec


Gaussian Blur
927
16.3 Mpixels/sec


Speech Recognition
1580
13.5 Words/sec


Face Detection
1580
461.6 Ksubwindows/sec


Memory Copy
829
2.30 GB/sec


Memory Latency
4503
96.1 ns


Memory Bandwidth
763
4.08 GB/sec


Multi-Core Performance



Multi-Core Score

1536
Crypto Score
75

Integer Score

1960

Floating Point Score

1326

Memory Score

1263
AES
75
58.2 MB/sec


LZMA
2362
3.69 MB/sec


JPEG
2464
19.8 Mpixels/sec


Canny
1732
24.0 Mpixels/sec


Lua
1739
1.79 MB/sec


Dijkstra
2068
1.40 MTE/sec


SQLite
1456
40.4 Krows/sec


HTML5 Parse
1784
8.10 MB/sec


HTML5 DOM
1880
1.70 MElements/sec


Histogram Equalization
1972
61.6 Mpixels/sec


PDF Rendering
1701
45.2 Mpixels/sec


LLVM
3342
229.8 functions/sec


Camera
1627
4.51 images/sec


SGEMM
513
10.9 Gflops


SFFT
696
1.74 Gflops


N-Body Physics
1378
1.03 Mpairs/sec


Ray Tracing
1297
189.5 Kpixels/sec


Rigid Body Physics
2215
6484.8 FPS


HDR
2356
8.54 Mpixels/sec


Gaussian Blur
919
16.1 Mpixels/sec


Speech Recognition
1833
15.7 Words/sec


Face Detection
2271
663.3 Ksubwindows/sec


Memory Copy
854
2.37 GB/sec


Memory Latency
3074
140.8 ns


Memory Bandwidth
769
4.11 GB/sec
Am I using a popgun when I should be using a cannon?

It's an old laptop, and probably needs to be replaced.

Or not???

Any comments are appreciated. (sorry for the long post)
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#426703 - 08/19/17 01:20 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 11919
Loc: Australia
Keith,

When you say...

Quote:
My BIAB laptop is under performing - it stutters and stops during songs.

... try this and see if it makes a difference.

1. Load a song with known playback problems.

2. Right-click on the chord sheet and select "Song Settings".

3. In the Song Settings menu, select "This song has playback problems, disable fast generation".

4. Generate the song (it will take slightly longer now before it plays).

Did that help?

Also, when did you last defrag your computer?

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#426709 - 08/19/17 04:33 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16255
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
With Geekbench, we compare only one spec: the single core score. Yours (barely) meets the minimum requirements for BIAB.

In addition to Noel’s tip, look in Options, Preferences, RealTracks and find a couple of checkboxes having to do with slower PCs.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#426783 - 08/19/17 06:18 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3186
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Keith,

Visit Toshiba's website and go to the page that has software and drivers for your laptop. Download and install any updates that have been posted since the last time you visited the site.

Visit Intel's website +++ HERE +++. Download and run the Intel chipset scanner. The utility program identifies what Intel chips are used inside the laptop, examines the chipset drivers in Windows and suggests updates if they are needed.

While looking over the information I did not see how much memory your laptop has. Your laptop can use 4 GB of memory. +++ Crucial.com +++ has a utility program that scans your computer and suggests memory that works in your computer. If your laptop has only 1 or 2 GB of memory upgrading to the full 4 GB is inexpensive and pretty easy to do. If you're not comfortable swapping memory any computer shop can do it and may not charge you if you buy the memory from them.

If you have not run the hard drive defrag program in a a long time you may need to let the program run overnight. It can take a day or longer for the program to complete.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2017 BiaB (470) UltraPlusPak RB 2017 (Build 8)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

++ Saving My Sanity One Song At A Time ++

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#426794 - 08/19/17 07:53 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Thank you guys, I appreciate your help and will try your suggestions. I run defrag regularly, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Matt - the single core score you mentioned is 1358; ideally what should it be?
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#426804 - 08/19/17 10:41 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16255
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Keith from Oz

Matt - the single core score you mentioned is 1358; ideally what should it be?

Higher.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#426805 - 08/19/17 11:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Matt Finley]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Hee hee. A little higher or a lot higher?
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#426813 - 08/20/17 12:04 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
OK. I've decided to bite the bullet and buy a new laptop.

Can anyone please advise the minimum specs that I should look for?

I only use it for BIAB so I don't need a lot of extras.

And a further question; since I've had the old laptop (about 9 years) I've updated every year, and purchased all of the extras from PG Music - some were on CDs and some were downloaded (the main program is on a HDD)
To save a lot of time, if I were to copy the bb file from the old laptop, transfer it to an external drive, and then copy that to the new laptop, would that work?.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#426817 - 08/20/17 12:42 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 11919
Loc: Australia
Keith,

Your plan to copy the \bb and \Realband folders to an external source and then load that onto your new computer will work fine. This is what I do every time I get a new computer.

You will need to run the 2017 minimal install after doing the above so that you set the new computer up for BIAB.

Make sure you deactivate BIAB (under the Help option) before deleting it off your older computer. This will preserve the 3 activations that PG Music give.

The below thread has more detailed information on this process if you wish to read it.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=423589#Post423589

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#426989 - 08/21/17 04:46 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Noel96]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Thanks Noel, I appreciate your help.
I'll give that a try.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427016 - 08/21/17 07:24 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi

Don't just get minimum specs. Get the most powerful you can afford. I would have thought most new laptops would be plenty powerful enough. Make sure it has a big Hard drive in the laptop, lots of USB slots. Preferably USB 3. If you don't need a laptop (eg for performing live), you get a lot more bang for your bucks with desktops. I wouldn't bother with a DVD drive etc unless you have poor internet. I guess most new laptops don't even have DVD drives now. Others will add more useful info as well.
_________________________
Windows 10 Home insider preview (Evaluation) Build 17046
BIAB 2018 (Build 504)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 2, Nova, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#427027 - 08/22/17 12:35 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6344
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Keith from Oz
I only use it for BIAB so I don't need a lot of extras.


You're thinking of this exactly backwards. This statement implies you're "only running Biab" like that's some simple thing. No, any digital audio software that renders and manipulates audio (which includes Biab or any DAW like Real Band) stresses the heck out of a computer.

There are no "extras" there's only the CPU, RAM and type of system drive which in the modern world means an SSD not a spinning hard drive. Any new PC with mid range power will have USB 3 so I guess an extra would be the number of USB ports. More is better.

You asked Matt how much higher. My answer: A lot. The computer in my sig that I picked up off Ebay used last year for $600 scores 3,287. That's middle of the pack, high end new machines can score 7,500. I just ran the new Geekbench 4 and they don't test single core any more, they have something called Open CL and my score is 17,815. I have no idea what that means or how it compares to the old single core score.

Anyway like was said, get the most CPU and ram you can afford with a minimum 256 gig SSD. 128 gigs would really be cutting it close for a system drive running audio apps. An i5 processor would be my minimum with an i7 much preferred.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#427066 - 08/22/17 06:41 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: lambada]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10260
Loc: Hamlin NY
I agree with Bob and lambada about getting a powerful computer. I will disagree with lambada about a DVD/CD burner. I would try to get an internal DVD/CD drive. IMHO you need a DVD/CD drive so you can burn your songs to CDs, create a boot disk (which you can not do with an external drive) etc. YMMV
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#427072 - 08/22/17 07:04 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16255
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Many years ago, I bought a netbook (big mistake) that had no CD/DVD drive. I bought an external USB drive for it. I actually still have it; my wife’s Mac mini has no CD/DVD drive either. So, you should be able to add this if needed.

I have to say, I hardly use the burner anymore, what with MP3s even in my car.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#427112 - 08/22/17 09:17 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6344
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
From what I've read there's no need for a recovery CD either.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17422/windows-8-create-usb-recovery-drive.

Another thing I read but can't find the article, is USB 3 is fast enough to use a thumb drive to put your cloned HD on and then boot from it. I recently picked up a 64 Gig USB 3 Sandisk thumb drive for that but haven't cloned my OS to it yet.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#427124 - 08/22/17 10:47 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10260
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
From what I've read there's no need for a recovery CD either.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17422/windows-8-create-usb-recovery-drive.

Another thing I read but can't find the article, is USB 3 is fast enough to use a thumb drive to put your cloned HD on and then boot from it. I recently picked up a 64 Gig USB 3 Sandisk thumb drive for that but haven't cloned my OS to it yet.

Bob


This is interesting. I have two laptops and never will boot from a USB port, even if I set it up to do so in the BIOS. Apparently on these two the OS must load prior to opening the USB ports. Maybe things have changed in the last two years?
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#427178 - 08/22/17 06:23 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18499
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
You should be able to boot from USB .. needing an OS to load first defeats the purpose.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#427261 - 08/23/17 09:47 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5250
Yep....

I agree, always buy as much computer and processing power as you can afford.

Having said that....

Often when people come in asking about performance related issues and say they're getting clicks, pops, hesitation, stuff out of sync, the first thing I think about is the sound card. It's generally at the root of those sorts of problems.

You can't generally get good performance out of factory (stock) sound cards and their drivers. Most of the folks here and on other music recording web sites are using third party external sound cards and ASIO drivers. Just about any computer will run the software just fine, but you do need to have a soundcard/interface that's up to the task.

I have run and still have a laptop that is pitifully under-powered by today's and PG's minimum requirements. YET.... with my Focusrite interface and ASIO drivers, I get absolutely great performance in spite of the fact that is s duo-core, running Vista for the OS and I think it has either 1 or 2 gig at most for it's memory.

My standard desktop DAW is similar.... 4GB, i5 chip, XP pro/32 and it's a rock solid workhorse.

You will get better performance out of an old bare minimum computer with a nice aftermarket recording interface than you will with a state of the art computer with a factory standard soundcard chip set.
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music

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#427285 - 08/23/17 11:48 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Marty Sorensen Offline
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Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 155
Loc: San Jose, CA
I note that I have an Intel I5-4430 @3.00 GHz, with 10GB of ram on an HP Machine. When I download the Intel Chipset scan, it said these are generic Intel customized by the manufacturer. And that statement is a link, where all the mfrs come up, and I can choose HP, but that goes to their general support website, so I didn't go any further. I'm not having any problems with BB, my mic and headphone and keyboard all go through the Focusrite Scarlett Solo.

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#427299 - 08/23/17 02:08 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
edshaw Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Colorado
http://www.wirerealm.com/guides/top-10-best-computers-music-production

The Lenevo Think Server looks good.

Now that Band in a Box comes on its own hard drive, has that changed anything, as far as what computer to use?
I have a fast C: drive that runs the programs, and
a big ol' 1T hybrid D: where the working files are
sent. Video is like audio, by uses more power and space.
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

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#427308 - 08/23/17 04:36 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Hi guys,
Thank you for all your help & suggestions; I think I've found an HP laptop that fits the bill. It's within my price range, and the specs meet the recommendations as suggested by the forum.
Just one problem - it doesn't have a line in.
I currently have my keyboard connected to the Ketron, which has stereo RCA output, through a lead to a 3.5mm (?) jack that goes into the line in of the laptop.

Without a line-in, is there another way to connect the Ketron to the HP - perhaps some sort of adaptor?
TIA
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427318 - 08/23/17 06:35 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16255
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I recommend a USB audio interface such as a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, or larger depending on the number of other inputs you need.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#427325 - 08/23/17 07:43 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: Hong Kong
Maybe the line in and line out are combined? Seems strange. You can always use a USB output for sound. As mentioned a good audio interface will be most suitable if the budget stretches. I use the the UA-2 by Zoom as it's USB 3. There are others by Zoom. Personally I love Zoom products but a lot of people on the site like Focusrite, and there are loads of others. Even some of these fancy mixers..... if live is going to be your thing. :-)
_________________________
Windows 10 Home insider preview (Evaluation) Build 17046
BIAB 2018 (Build 504)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 2, Nova, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#427331 - 08/23/17 08:47 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
jford Online   content
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9851
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Very few laptops have line in inputs these days. It forces you into an external solution.
_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB,SSDBoot,7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, FastTrack Pro, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/
NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#427336 - 08/23/17 09:38 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: jford]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Yes, I didn't think it would be as complicated - or so expensive.

I may have to look at other options.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427342 - 08/23/17 10:20 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Keith from Oz Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Would something like this (without the yellow video lead) work?

Or is that too simple?


Attachments
index.jpg


_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427350 - 08/23/17 11:51 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Sorry, picture too small.


Attachments
3index.jpg


_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427439 - 08/24/17 05:12 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
edshaw Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Colorado
Don't you need an interface to convert analog signal to digital? Digital interfaces have a variety of input/ouptut.
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

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#427440 - 08/24/17 05:35 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Keith from Oz Online   content
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Hi Ed,
I'm not sure. I believe the signal that comes from the Ketron SD2 is MIDI. Currently I connect a regular RCA/3.5mm lead from the Ketron output to the line in of the laptop.
I hoping someone who uses a Ketron & a laptop without line in will jump in.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427502 - 08/25/17 07:44 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 9851
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Like Matt said, you're going to need an external interface that has line-in capability to get the audio from the Ketron back to your computer.

I've got a Ketron SD-2 (and unfortunately, it is failing, so I can use it much anymore, however....).

The Ketron accepts MIDI input from either a computer or a keyboard. It generates the audio from that input and sends it out via a stereo audio connection. That's why you need the "line-in" on your computer to be able to record the Ketron's output in real time (you have to records it; you can't render it like you can with a DXi or a VSTi).

So, something like Matt's suggestion should work for you. Here is how I had my system set up (I have an M-Audio Fast Track Pro, which has audio in, audio out, MIDI in and MIDI out capability).

My Fast Track pro is connected to my computer via USB and is seen by the computer as an available sound card. The USB is a bi-direction connetion that supports audio and MIDI data across the connection. I then have the MIDI out of the FastTrack connected to the MIDI in of the Ketron (which allows MIDI data from the computer to drive the Ketron; however, you could just have the MIDI out of your electronic keyboard connected to the MIDI in of the Ketron, which allows the keyboard to drive the Ketron). Then the output from my Ketron goes to a stereo audio input on my hardware mixer unit and then the mixer unit is connected to the audio in on my Fast Track pro (via balanced cables for clean sound) so that the audio data from the Ketron can be recorded back into the computer. You don't need the intermediary mixer (the Ketron audio out could go directly to the audio in of your external sound card); however, this allows me to also use the mixer for microphone records and other instrument recordings.

Below is a rough picture of how I do it with my laptop:


Attachments
Interconnect Presentation.jpg


_________________________
John

#1-Win10Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
#2-Win10Pro-64,16GB,SSDBoot,7200RPM
#3-Win7Pro-64,8GB,7200RPM
H/W: Onboard audio, FastTrack Pro, Casio Kbds
S/W: BB/RB2017/Sonar/Reaper/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/
NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web: http://www.sus4chord.com

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#427518 - 08/25/17 09:58 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6344
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: edshaw
Now that Band in a Box comes on its own hard drive, has that changed anything, as far as what computer to use?


No, that has nothing to do with it. The PGM hard drive is just another external storage device, it's not processing anything. The processing is done by your CPU in your computer.

Keith, you said you're not very technical and I can certainly see that's true. I sympathize because about 15 years ago I was right there with you. I decided to get into digital audio and knew absolutely squat about any of it. I could barely spell MIDI much less understand what it was.

First, Bob's Mantra: "Midi is not audio, audio is not MIDI, ommmm."

Once you understand that, the first question is what exactly are you recording? Are you using the Ketron as a sound source for Biab? If so that's for Biab's MIDI tracks, the Real Tracks/Drums are all audio, not MIDI so the Ketron is not doing anything with the RT/RD's

Next is do you sing, are you wanting to record your vocals?

Next do you want to record anyone else like a singer, a guitarist, whatever?

Right now you have a laptop and a Ketron. The Ketron is a synth that accepts a MIDI signal and converts that to audio. Go back to Bob's mantra and understand that. It converts MIDI to audio. How do you hear or record the audio? To simply hear it you take the RCA audio jacks out of the Ketron and plug them into your amp or studio monitors. To record that audio you have to run those RCA's into your laptop and then the audio FROM the laptop goes to your sound system unless you want to listen to everything on the little crappy laptop speakers. The headphone out's from the laptop can sound pretty good, you could use an audio adapter to run the audio from the headphone out to your sound system.

If your laptop has a line out but no line in then you need something to get the audio into the laptop. The only way is to use a USB interface. That interface plugs into your laptop using it's USB port, it's the USB that carries the audio from your Ketron. The interface has inputs for your mic or any instruments (which are audio inputs). That means you need an interface with two audio inputs for L and R stereo. Those come from the Ketron. You could use something as simple as this:

Behinger Line 2

ALL this does is run the audio out from the Ketron to a USB line into your laptop. Personally I think it's a waste of money because you'll realize you want some other inputs too like a mic for example. But if all you want is a way to get the audio from the Ketron to your laptop then this is all you need plus a couple of 1/4" to RCA adapters. Then use the headphone out of your laptop to your sound system.

This is enough of a lesson for the moment. Let us know exactly what you're trying to do.

Bob


Edited by jazzmammal (08/25/17 10:11 AM)
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#427528 - 08/25/17 11:00 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16255
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: edshaw
Now that Band in a Box comes on its own hard drive, has that changed anything, as far as what computer to use?

I do not disagree with anything Bob jazzmammal said. I'll just point out that I think there is something to consider if you are really trying hard to squeeze out the best performance. BIAB runs fine from the supplied USB drive. But it will run better if the program is loaded onto an internal hard drive, and much better if loaded onto an internal SSD drive.

Most laptops you can buy have a SSD boot drive (the only drive) as standard or an option, but it isn't large enough capacity for all of BIAB, and maybe not even for just the program without the RealTracks. In a desktop, you can easily pop in a SSD just for the BIAB program; this is what I did. Then save the RealTracks on an internal fast hard drive that will always be faster than an external USB drive (again, this is what I did). Extreme and more expensive? Yes. But for me as a composer it is worth it.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#427599 - 08/25/17 09:33 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: jazzmammal]
Keith from Oz Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Hi again,
Thank you all for your assistance.
John - thank for going to the trouble of showing me your set up - very impressive.

Matt - as always your knowledge & advice is always first class - thank you.

Bob -

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Keith, you said you're not very technical and I can certainly see that's true. I sympathize because about 15 years ago I was right there with you. I decided to get into digital audio and knew absolutely squat about any of it. I could barely spell MIDI much less understand what it was.


I still can't spell MDII smile


Next is do you sing, are you wanting to record your vocals?

No ... my singing is cr*p

Next do you want to record anyone else like a singer, a guitarist, whatever?

No, just me and my keyboard.



This is enough of a lesson for the moment. Let us know exactly what you're trying to do.

Bob


Bob , thank you. I was of the (mis)understanding that the signal coming out of the Ketron was MIDI, but now I understand that its not.
I can now look at finding a suitable connection as per your recommendation.

Thankyou once again for all of your help.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427665 - 08/26/17 10:06 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6344
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
OK, I see in your other thread you were asking about a MIDI to USB converter cable. In this thread I assumed you already had one of those because you said here you needed to get the audio out of your Ketron since the new laptop doesn't have a line in like the old one did. Since the Ketron can only produce audio from an incoming midi signal that begs the question, how have you been using the Ketron up to now if you don't already have a midi connection cable?

This is why I asked you exactly what are you planning to do with your equipment in this case a keyboard and the Ketron. To be specific:

1. What make and model of keyboard do you have and what kind of midi connections does it have?

2. How do want to use your keyboard? Is it to play along with Biab and you want to record the audio only? If you connect the midi from your keyboard to the Ketron you can use the Ketron for better/different sounds than what the keyboard produces internally.

3. When you use Biab do you use some midi styles or do you use all Real Tracks? Your Ketron can really make the midi styles come to life.

Answers to these questions will help us to figure out just what you need. it's possible you can get away with a couple of cheap midi to USB cables but lets find out.

Bob
_________________________
Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#427732 - 08/26/17 05:32 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Keith from Oz Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your continuing interest & help.
The previous thread you referred to relates to a replacement cable, rather than a new item.
My current setup (which works fine) is as follows:

Casio WK1800 keyboard -> Edirol UM1X interface - 1 DIN into Casio & the other into -> Ketron SD2. The USB from the interface into the Toshiba laptop. Ketron via RCAs to 3.5mm lead into line in of laptop.
Laptop headphone out via graphic equalizer into amp.

I've had the Ketron for a number of years now, and I absolutely love it. The sounds it produces, particularly the higher bank patches are great, and combined with Real Tracks, they make a simple piano player like me sound half good smile

I'm hoping that the solution will be simply a lead with RCA stereo jacks (from the Ketron) and a USB (to the new laptop).
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427799 - 08/27/17 07:28 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10260
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Keith from Oz
Hi Bob,
.............

I'm hoping that the solution will be simply a lead with RCA stereo jacks (from the Ketron) and a USB (to the new laptop).



This should do the trick for you:

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/253987-Technical-Pro-USB2RCA

Or something like this would also work:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HDE-3-RCA-to-...ter&veh=sem

Good luck
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#427860 - 08/27/17 04:09 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: MarioD]
Keith from Oz Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2148
Loc: NSW Australia
Excellent, thank you Mario.
I'll hunt one down.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427878 - 08/27/17 07:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
edshaw Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Colorado
Here is a basic knowledge DAC summary.
Caution: it is an info-commercial, but a good one.

https://www.audioadvice.com/content/2016/11/22/what-is-a-dac/
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

Top
#428004 - 08/28/17 08:13 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
edshaw Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Colorado
We need to know, you are not likely to run into the highest end studios and see a MacBook Pro running Garage Band, although I am told Willie's Austin studio has good ol' Pro Tools at the core.
You might see a rack of something like these:
http://tascam.com/product/da-3000/

Scroll down to the schematic and note the components include transformer (no 12v converter in the wall) DAC and ADC modules, and a few other things. run the And, the clock to snyc them. The channel faders are in another room.

I only point this out to advise you as to what you are hoping to duplicate with the system you are putting together. Don't spend too much time reinventing the wheel.

It doesn't take long to get up to $1,299 putting components together.
They have to balance. If it runs cakewalk, it probably will run BIAB.
If not, run the BIAB on a laptop.

http://tascam.com/product/trackfactory_project/

http://tascam.com/news/display/12606/


Edited by edshaw (08/28/17 08:30 PM)
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

Top
#428239 - 08/30/17 04:07 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
edshaw Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Colorado
Risking being rude by replying to my own post, one other general knowlege topic we should all be familiar with are is the processors.
Questions one: AMD or Intel?
Question two: Intel Core i5 or Intel Core i7?
Compare Intel processors.
Four core, eight thread, recomended for audio visual media work.
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

Top
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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

We have put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog/blog/how-to-record-a-cover-song-using-band-in-a-box-and-realband

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=IYMMZVvQdCw

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me": http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433190

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:
http://floydjane.com/
https://www.janiceandbud.com/

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 49 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts more than 50 new features... and a lot of the new features fill the requests posted by program users!

Some of these include:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I love the Audio Chord Wizard, as it figures out chords from mp3 and other audio files. But it is a separate program from Band-in-a-Box, and I can’t go back and forth to change things easily.

A. We've solved that, as BiaB 2018 has integrated the Audio Chord Wizard directly into Band-in-a-Box. Now load an audio file into BiaB, open the Audio Edit Window – Audio Chord Wizard mode, and let it automatically figure out the bar lines and chords for the song.

Q. I like to save songs as MP3 files, and can't do this with BiaB, except a very low quality one, 64kbps.

A. We've improved this, by adding support for Windows Media Foundation. This allows you to save MP3 in your choice of resolutions, up to very high 320mpbs. Better still, it works on current versions of Windows (Windows 7,8,10) and also on older versions too (Vista, XP).

We've answered 49 questions - review all of these answers on our forum post "49 of your Problems solved? List of 49 Requests fulfilled in Band-in-a-Box 2018" here.

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

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