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#429178 - 09/08/17 01:36 PM [RealBand] Render to WAV
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
Hi guys, would you say that it's par for the course that a rendered WAV will sound subtly different from the master SEQ in RealBand? It's frustrating, things sound precisely the way I want them mixed in RB, but the Merge Audio and DXI tracks to Stereo WAV option seems to offer no controls, and although it's a very high-quality rendering, subtle differences in instrument volumes and equalization occur. I'm assuming that's one reason we might want to master the WAV. Thanks!
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#429180 - 09/08/17 02:10 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2462
Try and record the stereo output of your sound device to a new track in RealBand and see if that's better.
Set the Audio Input to the stereo output.
You can use ASIO4ALL also.


Attachments
RB_Stereo_Rec.jpg

RB_Stereo_Rec_Track.jpg



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#429190 - 09/08/17 03:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
Thanks for your reply Pipeline. Could you give me a little more detail on what I need to do to record all tracks and effects to a single stereo track? Somthing in Options/Preferences/Audio? I'm assuming then you would render that stereo track only to WAV and compare the difference?
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#429196 - 09/08/17 04:30 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18802
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I think Pipeline is saying that you can assign the sound going out of RB (your live mix) to be recorded as the input signal on other tracks. Arm 2 new MONO tracks or a stereo track, set your recording input to be what you are hearing via your sound card mixer (or maybe even the Windows mixer on some systems). So what you hear is what you record.

It will take longer than rendering (it has to actually 'play' the song through and record it back at the same time).
But you should end up with a stereo recording containing what you hear during playback (vs Rendering) on the newly recorded tracks..

Personally I haven't ever noticed this issue before. RB renders what it plays pretty effectively, unless you are listening to 24 bit track recordings and rendering to a 16 bit wav or something .. though I doubt that is the issue.
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Make your sound your own!

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#429198 - 09/08/17 04:56 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: rharv]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2462
Yes, what rharv said.
The easiest way without installing Voicemeeter or VB Audio Virtual Cable, is use the onboard sound, as the onboard sound should have Stereo Out/Mix just enable it by right click speaker icon > Recording Devices > and right click > Show Disabled Devices > enable Stereo Mix/Out.
Then set it in the MME Audio Drivers as the Input.


Attachments
Win_Rec_Device.jpg

RB_MME_Device.jpg



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#429254 - 09/09/17 08:55 AM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
Thank so much Pipeline, RHARV, and Jim (privately). I didn't need to go this far. I made some system changes yesterday, suggested by Focusrite with regard to optimizing audio performance. I can only assume this has made the difference, because today, not only my new WAV, but also the WAV from yesterday DO sound identical to the RB mix. Prior, there was a subtle difference in the WAV played in WMP or Audacity. It wasn't softer/louder, or lower-quality but literally different- high-quality, but not the same exact balance of instruments. I know that sounds bizarre, but I trust my ears.

Now, there has been weirdness in RB audio preferences dropping ASIO and reverting to MME, so this could be involved. I turn the Audiophile drive off when not in use, and it may be dropping this setting. As I've also experienced other fussiness (Access Violations, tracks dropping out, etc.), I wonder if it would be better to have RB on my hard drive rather than the external- thoughts? Fingers crossed till next time, and thanks again!
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#429258 - 09/09/17 10:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6486
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Unless you have a really old system with a small hard drive, install the programs themselves ie Biab and RB, onto your system drive. The RT/RD's are fine on your external. I tested this some months ago because I had installed everything onto my SSD system drive but was running out of space so I deleted all the RT/RD's and ran them from the external. I timed it both ways and there was zero difference in rendering times.

As you just found out, digital audio is very tricky and COMPLETELY counterintuitive. What seems like a logical move isn't. Access violations, crashes, freezes etc will ultimately trace back so some kind of config issue either within RB itself or like your case your external interface.

Here's just one example. I had JUST written in the forum that I never get crashes with RB. Then I thought I had a crash immediately after I wrote that. Great, smooth move Sherlock. Turns out I had the Gain Change window open when I put the focus on the forum to check something. When I clicked on RB in the taskbar, that window was gone and RB was frozen. I remembered to look at the taskbar again and sure enough that Gain Change window had planted itself there. For some reason if you simply put your mouse focus on something else occasionally those floating windows will become unattached from the program itself and until you close that window it looks like RB had crashed.

That actually is a perfect example of what I had said. RB doesn't crash but it will do weird stuff like that sometimes. And in case someone thinks that's unique to RB go read the Cubase, Sonar, ProTools, PreSonus and anybody else's DAW forums. They all have weird crap like that because digital audio is extremely complex and tricky to work with.

Bob
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#429264 - 09/09/17 01:47 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
Thank you Bob. I'm interpreting this to mean that we might avoid some extra induced weirdness if the programs are directly on the hard drive and not on the external? I also mix and render to an internal SSD drive as I don't want to write anything to the external Audiophile drive- that just doesn't seem advisable to me. Even with my high-quality system, I can imagine that problems could arise using multiple drives. Thanks again Bob.
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#429296 - 09/09/17 09:46 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18802
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Quote:
.. I can imagine that problems could arise using multiple drives ..


Personally I think using multiple drives is beneficial .. but I wouldn't record (write) to a USB drive. Too much bandwidth needed especially if multi-tracking. 'Reading' Realtracks and Realdrums from the external USB works fine, but writing is a different story.

RB/PT lets you select your Temp Audio Directory. This is where incoming (recorded) data gets temporarily written to. Once you save the file (not 'keep take', but actually save the file) it gets saved to the drive that holds the file, but during a working session this Temp Audio Directory can get a lot of use.
I use a separate internal hard drive for the Temp Audio Directory.

That said, I use another separate internal hard drive to read the RT/RD's.
My drive layout is shown below.
The BB_RB drive holds my current RT/RDs. (kept up to date)
The audio_SysBackup drive holds my Temp Audio Directory
BiaB, RB and PT all run from C:

The other drives are system backups and general storage
I keep the PGMusic external drives as separate backups (not connected) so they don't show in the image below.


Attachments
rharvDrives.jpg


_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#429318 - 09/10/17 06:16 AM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
RHARV, do you recommend as does Bob, that I install the programs themselves on the main internal C drive? Thanks! And I do currently write to an internal SSD.
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

Top
#429319 - 09/10/17 06:36 AM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18802
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Yes, as I stated above; BiaB, RB and PT all run from C:
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#429320 - 09/10/17 06:56 AM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
Warren Keller Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 83
Loc: West Virginia
Duh, missed that- sorry! Thanks guys, I will install to the C drive.
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

Top
#429481 - 09/11/17 04:41 PM [RealBand] Re: Render to WAV [Re: Warren Keller]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18802
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Let us know how it goes.
Like I said, for me;
The applications run on C:
RTs and RDs get loaded from a separate internal drive, and temp audio directory is using yet a different internal drive.
That's why your "don't use separate drives" comment confused me. I get the best performance when I DO use separate drives .. as described .. but then again I frequently record 6-8 tracks at a time, so some users may never notice the difference.
I can only tell you what I know now, from personal experience.
YMMV

_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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