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#438557 - 11/17/17 05:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Charlie

Thanks for the tip to use the "play" button in text instead the one with the icon. That helps a little.

I dont think im disregarding anyone, just trying to make some sense of this very cluttered window. The clutter is not the problem but considering the behaviour of hearing something else other than you song as most important than working on it is.

Playing random melodies for inspiration is fine but should never be as important as finding a style for a song that already exists which would be more common, since this is the whole point of picking a style.

A regular workflow would be to create the chords progression you want bib to play and then pick a style for them is it? The opposite, pick a style without a chord progression does not make sense since at the end this is required for bib to do anything and required to know whatever you want to create.

The actual workflow leads to the situation already explained. Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound and eventually having to repeat the process if you are not satisfied, when you should be able to hear your song directly without having to go through the random melody. This is bad enough as it is.

The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.

Regardless of how well these previews are composed, the end result once you load the style is what matter most, or should at least.


Edited by Mackraken (11/17/17 05:34 PM)

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#438575 - 11/17/17 07:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
zedd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 286
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Mackraken
The actual workflow leads to the situation already explained. Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound and eventually having to repeat the process if you are not satisfied, when you should be able to hear your song directly without having to go through the random melody. This is bad enough as it is.

The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.

Regardless of how well these previews are composed, the end result once you load the style is what matter most, or should at least.

Mackraken,

I'm on the fence about this... sort of...

First of all, given all the things I like to do in the StylePicker in order to narrow down my style selections, I know I would spend more time WANTING to hear the PG Music style demos than hearing the styles with my chords, so given the choice of what double-clicking the styles does, I think it is more beneficial for it to behave as it does, if nothing else is to change.

Having said that, I was playing around with loading up the first 4 bars of my song in the StylePicker and auditioning them from within there, and I have to admit that it is kind of fun hearing them like that, when you are willing to wait 4-5 seconds each time to hear the results.

Since I found myself enjoying that and could see the benefit in auditioning styles that way more often, it would indeed be easier if you could double-click the style and get those 4 bars to load each time.

So my simple suggestion for PG Music would be for them to add an key to the double-click to achieve the alternate option. If double-clicking the style remains exactly the same for auditioning the PG Music song demo, then holding down the Control/Command key while double-clicking could achieve the results of immediately loading and playing 4 bars of your song chords in that styles.

Or Alt/Option double-click.

Then we are all happy in all circumstances because it is just as easy to do it either way according to the circumstance.

I wish this was implemented already because it really is kind of fun hearing those 4 bars, and you are right that if you choose to do that a lot it would be better if there were a faster way to get those 4 bars loading.
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#438585 - 11/17/17 09:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3972
Loc: South Carolina
The 4-5 second wait to hear a style over the current chord selection is due to Biab having to generate the Realtracks and midi. That is unavoidable and will have to occur with each change of style.


<Playing random melodies for inspiration is fine but should never be as important as finding a style for a song that already exists which would be more common, since this is the whole point of picking a style.>

Not necessarily. If someone is auditioning styles for inspiration and finds a suitable style, they can load the demo which in turn populates the chord chart page with the chords, tempo and key signature and all of the instruments for the style. The composer is then free to edit the chords, tempo and key to customize the demo into their own original piece.

<Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound >

Double click is a convenience to play the demo but is not a required step. It is not necessary to hear the demo unless that is something you wish to do. You can audition a style solely over your chord chart by highlighting a style and the click onto the Play over current chordsheet button.

<The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.>

I believe it is equally important to the users whose workflow is to use the demos for inspiration rather than developing a chord progression first. As stated earlier, you can completely avoid hearing the demos by simply not using the double click feature.
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#438618 - 11/18/17 04:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Zed.

The suggestion to add an option to change the behaviour was proposed and seems reasonable. I dont quite understand why would you rather like to hear anything different to pick a style for your song but i guess many people is used to.

Charlie.

Glad you find useful to hear and tweak other songs rather the ones you would be able to create. But this workflow you mention, although legit, makes harder to find a style for people who rather like to know how their songs sounds instead an unrelated one.

The reason being that an awful demo melody could be using a suitable style for your song does not help at all to make a decision.

To wrap up, what would be more important? use the software to compose songs of yours or to tweak predefined ones? What is what most people rather like? If everybody prefers the latter then im wrong but i doubt it would be the case because this software main goal is to let you create songs of your own.


Edited by Mackraken (11/18/17 05:20 AM)

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#438626 - 11/18/17 06:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3972
Loc: South Carolina
Mackraken, you're correct that a Style can sound drastically different playing over the current chord chart than the specific and static chord chart the demo was recorded in. That is an important factor that will influence your decision to choose a specific style that works best for your current track whether it is a cover or an original composition when you are trying to match the Style you hear in your head. I've lost original ideas from being influenced by demo styles as I auditioned through the list searching.

That being said, Biab is primarily marketed as an easy to use accompaniment program. Enter a chord chart, set your tempo and key, select a style, hit play and Biab instantly produces a great sounding backing track.

I can't and don't speak for PGMusic but I think the Stylepicker as it currently works allows Biab to be marketed as above in a truthful manner. Any novice user can open Biab, enter chords, tempo and key; Select a style from a list of professional sounding prerecorded demos and be singing or playing along in minutes. Each year, PGMusic uploads many demonstration videos of the new RealTracks and new features of that current year version of Biab/RB. They always feature 20-30 minute videos previewing soundtracks of the Demos. They don't use nor do I recall them ever featuring or referencing the User Showcase Forum where original compositions made using the Biab program. That's not their focus.

The fact that Biab has so many additional advanced features, learning tools and composition possibilities is just icing on the cake...
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#438661 - 11/18/17 10:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
zedd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 286
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Mackraken
The suggestion to add an option to change the behaviour was proposed and seems reasonable. I dont quite understand why would you rather like to hear anything different to pick a style for your song but i guess many people is used to.


I'll give you just one example of many... If I am using the StylePicker to search a particular musician who strums a great sounding acoustic guitar and a search for him produces 40-50 styles, I don't want to try them all with the chords of my song... I want to quickly audition them to find the rhythmic style that is closest to what I was envisioning.

And that goes for most things. If I load up all of my Bossa Nova favorites, for example, my goal is not to first try them all out with the chords of my song. My goal is to first quickly audition each of them to determine which one I imagine is best going to suit what I am looking for. Which style has elements that I really like... maybe great sound drums or a particularly alluring piano sound.

And that's the skill which maybe you need to try to develop... try to translate in your head what a particular style is going to sound like in your song. Of course it might not end up being what you imagine, but most of the time, if you are paying attention to the instruments in the style demo, you can envision what it may sound like in your song--at least enough to rule out the styles that are not worth loading up, and to determine which ones you like best and should try loading first.

Originally Posted By: Mackraken
But this workflow you mention, although legit, makes harder to find a style for people who rather like to know how their songs sounds instead an unrelated one.

The reason being that an awful demo melody could be using a suitable style for your song does not help at all to make a decision.


It's difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that you can't see the benefit of using the song demos to narrow down your choices and save you a tonne of time. The ultimate objective is to make the right decision that best suits the objective in your mind. So the short term objective when you open up the StylePicker is to use the song demos to help you quickly identify the style that you will want to try with your song.
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BIAB 2017 Audiophile, DP 8, Mac OS X 10.8.5

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#438912 - 11/20/17 04:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Charlie, thanks for being understandable with the situation. In software ergonomics it has to be studied the amount of interaction needed to carry an action, the less the better of course. In Bib is not easy since has this large amount of features and so many use cases. A hint to make the right choice is to identify the common processes and optimize them whenever is posible.

Like Zedd and you mentioned before, its nice to find useful to hear the styles when you dont even have a song in place, but once you do, the styler picker is not so friendly since its designed to play predefined demos instead the one it should care about. From this point of view this behaviour improvable and i bet there would be a way that could satisfy both sides. Either by introducing an option or to rethink this style picker to find the easiest and quickest way, the one that requires less interaction, to find a style for the song you already have.

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#439006 - 11/20/17 04:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 3972
Loc: South Carolina
No problem. At the end of every Stylepicker search, it's all about finding that one right style for the project. Stylepicker gives us many roads to arrive at the same destination.

Charlie
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:BIAB Build 505, RB 2018 Build 3; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#442211 - 12/02/17 06:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2191
I just always double-click expecting to 'select and close' out of habit from...well, just about any other program I ever tried or had, on any computer I ever tried or had!

A MASSIVE PLUS MILLIONS!!
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Never finish what you can't start!
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#442754 - 12/05/17 08:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Icelander, thats what i thought it would happen the first time i used the style picker. As computer users, we are use to double click anything to carry the default action (open a folder, open a file, etc) but with the style picker we dont pick/select/load the style but play an unrelated song instead, which was odd enough since what i wanted was to play or just load the style with the song that i had.

To respect other users point of view, the behaviour could be improved in this way:

Create a single "preview style" checkbox. This would be located at the style picker window or bib preferences.

- On double click a style:

- If "preview style" is on:
- If the chord sheet is empty or less than 2 chords. Play the predefined demo song.
- If theres a chord sheet already written in bib. Play the 4 first bars with the same tempo, not a custom one.

- If "preview style" is off.
- Just load the style into bib.

This way, it wont only satisfy everyone but it would allow to clean up the interface, maybe removing the two "song players" into a single one and such.

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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

We have put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog/blog/how-to-record-a-cover-song-using-band-in-a-box-and-realband

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=IYMMZVvQdCw

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me": http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433190

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:
http://floydjane.com/
https://www.janiceandbud.com/

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 49 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts more than 50 new features... and a lot of the new features fill the requests posted by program users!

Some of these include:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I love the Audio Chord Wizard, as it figures out chords from mp3 and other audio files. But it is a separate program from Band-in-a-Box, and I can’t go back and forth to change things easily.

A. We've solved that, as BiaB 2018 has integrated the Audio Chord Wizard directly into Band-in-a-Box. Now load an audio file into BiaB, open the Audio Edit Window – Audio Chord Wizard mode, and let it automatically figure out the bar lines and chords for the song.

Q. I like to save songs as MP3 files, and can't do this with BiaB, except a very low quality one, 64kbps.

A. We've improved this, by adding support for Windows Media Foundation. This allows you to save MP3 in your choice of resolutions, up to very high 320mpbs. Better still, it works on current versions of Windows (Windows 7,8,10) and also on older versions too (Vista, XP).

We've answered 49 questions - review all of these answers on our forum post "49 of your Problems solved? List of 49 Requests fulfilled in Band-in-a-Box 2018" here.

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

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