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#438557 - 11/17/17 05:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Charlie

Thanks for the tip to use the "play" button in text instead the one with the icon. That helps a little.

I dont think im disregarding anyone, just trying to make some sense of this very cluttered window. The clutter is not the problem but considering the behaviour of hearing something else other than you song as most important than working on it is.

Playing random melodies for inspiration is fine but should never be as important as finding a style for a song that already exists which would be more common, since this is the whole point of picking a style.

A regular workflow would be to create the chords progression you want bib to play and then pick a style for them is it? The opposite, pick a style without a chord progression does not make sense since at the end this is required for bib to do anything and required to know whatever you want to create.

The actual workflow leads to the situation already explained. Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound and eventually having to repeat the process if you are not satisfied, when you should be able to hear your song directly without having to go through the random melody. This is bad enough as it is.

The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.

Regardless of how well these previews are composed, the end result once you load the style is what matter most, or should at least.


Edited by Mackraken (11/17/17 05:34 PM)

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#438575 - 11/17/17 07:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
zedd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 286
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Mackraken
The actual workflow leads to the situation already explained. Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound and eventually having to repeat the process if you are not satisfied, when you should be able to hear your song directly without having to go through the random melody. This is bad enough as it is.

The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.

Regardless of how well these previews are composed, the end result once you load the style is what matter most, or should at least.

Mackraken,

I'm on the fence about this... sort of...

First of all, given all the things I like to do in the StylePicker in order to narrow down my style selections, I know I would spend more time WANTING to hear the PG Music style demos than hearing the styles with my chords, so given the choice of what double-clicking the styles does, I think it is more beneficial for it to behave as it does, if nothing else is to change.

Having said that, I was playing around with loading up the first 4 bars of my song in the StylePicker and auditioning them from within there, and I have to admit that it is kind of fun hearing them like that, when you are willing to wait 4-5 seconds each time to hear the results.

Since I found myself enjoying that and could see the benefit in auditioning styles that way more often, it would indeed be easier if you could double-click the style and get those 4 bars to load each time.

So my simple suggestion for PG Music would be for them to add an key to the double-click to achieve the alternate option. If double-clicking the style remains exactly the same for auditioning the PG Music song demo, then holding down the Control/Command key while double-clicking could achieve the results of immediately loading and playing 4 bars of your song chords in that styles.

Or Alt/Option double-click.

Then we are all happy in all circumstances because it is just as easy to do it either way according to the circumstance.

I wish this was implemented already because it really is kind of fun hearing those 4 bars, and you are right that if you choose to do that a lot it would be better if there were a faster way to get those 4 bars loading.
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BIAB 2017 Audiophile, DP 8, Mac OS X 10.8.5

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#438585 - 11/17/17 09:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4169
Loc: South Carolina
The 4-5 second wait to hear a style over the current chord selection is due to Biab having to generate the Realtracks and midi. That is unavoidable and will have to occur with each change of style.


<Playing random melodies for inspiration is fine but should never be as important as finding a style for a song that already exists which would be more common, since this is the whole point of picking a style.>

Not necessarily. If someone is auditioning styles for inspiration and finds a suitable style, they can load the demo which in turn populates the chord chart page with the chords, tempo and key signature and all of the instruments for the style. The composer is then free to edit the chords, tempo and key to customize the demo into their own original piece.

<Double click will play a random melody which forces to preview the song twice in order to make a decision, once to hear the random melody and a second time once you load it with your current song to actually know how it will sound >

Double click is a convenience to play the demo but is not a required step. It is not necessary to hear the demo unless that is something you wish to do. You can audition a style solely over your chord chart by highlighting a style and the click onto the Play over current chordsheet button.

<The inspirational point is valid and understandable but not enough to make it more important than the main reason for this window.>

I believe it is equally important to the users whose workflow is to use the demos for inspiration rather than developing a chord progression first. As stated earlier, you can completely avoid hearing the demos by simply not using the double click feature.
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#438618 - 11/18/17 04:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Zed.

The suggestion to add an option to change the behaviour was proposed and seems reasonable. I dont quite understand why would you rather like to hear anything different to pick a style for your song but i guess many people is used to.

Charlie.

Glad you find useful to hear and tweak other songs rather the ones you would be able to create. But this workflow you mention, although legit, makes harder to find a style for people who rather like to know how their songs sounds instead an unrelated one.

The reason being that an awful demo melody could be using a suitable style for your song does not help at all to make a decision.

To wrap up, what would be more important? use the software to compose songs of yours or to tweak predefined ones? What is what most people rather like? If everybody prefers the latter then im wrong but i doubt it would be the case because this software main goal is to let you create songs of your own.


Edited by Mackraken (11/18/17 05:20 AM)

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#438626 - 11/18/17 06:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4169
Loc: South Carolina
Mackraken, you're correct that a Style can sound drastically different playing over the current chord chart than the specific and static chord chart the demo was recorded in. That is an important factor that will influence your decision to choose a specific style that works best for your current track whether it is a cover or an original composition when you are trying to match the Style you hear in your head. I've lost original ideas from being influenced by demo styles as I auditioned through the list searching.

That being said, Biab is primarily marketed as an easy to use accompaniment program. Enter a chord chart, set your tempo and key, select a style, hit play and Biab instantly produces a great sounding backing track.

I can't and don't speak for PGMusic but I think the Stylepicker as it currently works allows Biab to be marketed as above in a truthful manner. Any novice user can open Biab, enter chords, tempo and key; Select a style from a list of professional sounding prerecorded demos and be singing or playing along in minutes. Each year, PGMusic uploads many demonstration videos of the new RealTracks and new features of that current year version of Biab/RB. They always feature 20-30 minute videos previewing soundtracks of the Demos. They don't use nor do I recall them ever featuring or referencing the User Showcase Forum where original compositions made using the Biab program. That's not their focus.

The fact that Biab has so many additional advanced features, learning tools and composition possibilities is just icing on the cake...
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:Build 512, RB 2018 Build 5; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#438661 - 11/18/17 10:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
zedd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 286
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Mackraken
The suggestion to add an option to change the behaviour was proposed and seems reasonable. I dont quite understand why would you rather like to hear anything different to pick a style for your song but i guess many people is used to.


I'll give you just one example of many... If I am using the StylePicker to search a particular musician who strums a great sounding acoustic guitar and a search for him produces 40-50 styles, I don't want to try them all with the chords of my song... I want to quickly audition them to find the rhythmic style that is closest to what I was envisioning.

And that goes for most things. If I load up all of my Bossa Nova favorites, for example, my goal is not to first try them all out with the chords of my song. My goal is to first quickly audition each of them to determine which one I imagine is best going to suit what I am looking for. Which style has elements that I really like... maybe great sound drums or a particularly alluring piano sound.

And that's the skill which maybe you need to try to develop... try to translate in your head what a particular style is going to sound like in your song. Of course it might not end up being what you imagine, but most of the time, if you are paying attention to the instruments in the style demo, you can envision what it may sound like in your song--at least enough to rule out the styles that are not worth loading up, and to determine which ones you like best and should try loading first.

Originally Posted By: Mackraken
But this workflow you mention, although legit, makes harder to find a style for people who rather like to know how their songs sounds instead an unrelated one.

The reason being that an awful demo melody could be using a suitable style for your song does not help at all to make a decision.


It's difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that you can't see the benefit of using the song demos to narrow down your choices and save you a tonne of time. The ultimate objective is to make the right decision that best suits the objective in your mind. So the short term objective when you open up the StylePicker is to use the song demos to help you quickly identify the style that you will want to try with your song.
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BIAB 2017 Audiophile, DP 8, Mac OS X 10.8.5

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#438912 - 11/20/17 04:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Charlie, thanks for being understandable with the situation. In software ergonomics it has to be studied the amount of interaction needed to carry an action, the less the better of course. In Bib is not easy since has this large amount of features and so many use cases. A hint to make the right choice is to identify the common processes and optimize them whenever is posible.

Like Zedd and you mentioned before, its nice to find useful to hear the styles when you dont even have a song in place, but once you do, the styler picker is not so friendly since its designed to play predefined demos instead the one it should care about. From this point of view this behaviour improvable and i bet there would be a way that could satisfy both sides. Either by introducing an option or to rethink this style picker to find the easiest and quickest way, the one that requires less interaction, to find a style for the song you already have.

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#439006 - 11/20/17 04:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4169
Loc: South Carolina
No problem. At the end of every Stylepicker search, it's all about finding that one right style for the project. Stylepicker gives us many roads to arrive at the same destination.

Charlie
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:Build 512, RB 2018 Build 5; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#442211 - 12/02/17 06:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2290
I just always double-click expecting to 'select and close' out of habit from...well, just about any other program I ever tried or had, on any computer I ever tried or had!

A MASSIVE PLUS MILLIONS!!
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YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
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BBox 2017 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

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#442754 - 12/05/17 08:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Load a style by double clicking on it [Re: Mackraken]
Mackraken Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/17
Posts: 10
Hi Icelander, thats what i thought it would happen the first time i used the style picker. As computer users, we are use to double click anything to carry the default action (open a folder, open a file, etc) but with the style picker we dont pick/select/load the style but play an unrelated song instead, which was odd enough since what i wanted was to play or just load the style with the song that i had.

To respect other users point of view, the behaviour could be improved in this way:

Create a single "preview style" checkbox. This would be located at the style picker window or bib preferences.

- On double click a style:

- If "preview style" is on:
- If the chord sheet is empty or less than 2 chords. Play the predefined demo song.
- If theres a chord sheet already written in bib. Play the 4 first bars with the same tempo, not a custom one.

- If "preview style" is off.
- Just load the style into bib.

This way, it wont only satisfy everyone but it would allow to clean up the interface, maybe removing the two "song players" into a single one and such.

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PG Music News
A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qPrejgnwb4M

RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

Band-in-a-Box® Customer Feedback - Feel The Love!

Check out some great feedback we've received on our Facebook account from program users:

"I have been using Band-in-a-Box for years. It is the anchor of my music gigs as well as my fun in my studio. I have used other software but Band-in-a-Box is my main go to."
-Jack T.

"Love Band-in-a-Box. As someone who played professionally for 20 years and retired from live performing years ago, I still love music. Band-in-a-Box allows me to create fun arrangements which I can sing over or play over. There are THOUSANDS of different variations plus you can enter any chords you like and create any chart. It's also great for creating background tracks for videos and audio content for websites, training etc. And like everything else in the world . . . it may not be right for everyone. For those who love music and don't have the time to shed five or six instruments it's way cool."
-Vinnie R.

"This program has completely changed my playing for the good. I can experiment with playing chords and leads over various scenarios that I can quickly create and change. Love this program. I use it nearly every day."
-Dave R.

"I bought my first version in 1994 and have progressed to 2018 version. I use it to create backing tracks for live music performance. I currently have over 2,000 songs performance ready. If you can and type, and use mouse it will work for you."
-Roger M.

"The premiere reason for me for buying this program; it has given me the freedom to fully complete the foundation for my songs without the confinement of limited minded musicians. After the song concept is complete, it can then be presented those musicians to play as a cover song. Also writing a song with a band gives them partial ownership of your idea... not cool... especially since they may have fought your idea every step of the way.. Every member of an organized band should own a copy of this program to compose or to even give legitimate composition alternatives to the original songwriter."
-Paul V.

Thanks everyone!

Support for ABC Notation Format in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

ABC notation is the simple text-based notation system used by musicians worldwide to store chords, melody, and lyrics of songs. Now with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows you can open and save songs in ABC notation format!

To save the song in ABC notation format, press the [Save As] toolbar button and choose Save as ABC notation file from the menu. Once opened, select a track that you want to save and choose your other criteria - The [Copy to clipboard] button will copy the file to the clipboard (that you can then paste it into other programs). The [Save as File] button will let you type a name and select the destination in your hard drive.

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