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#432745 - 10/08/17 05:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Multi Track Real Tracks
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 782
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
We all know that in BIAB 2017 you can create multi track drums, why not allow all tracks to be multi tracks. We have the one track Real Tracks and we should be able to combine those.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#433292 - 10/13/17 01:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
JEasyWeaver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/17
Posts: 59
Loc: FL
Interesting.

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#433576 - 10/15/17 09:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13699
Loc: Australia
Have look in Realtrack picker and see if you have the "Medley" button (#2 on the image below). This allows multiple Realtracks on a single track.


Attachments
Medley.jpg


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LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#433590 - 10/15/17 12:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17642
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Noel, as a corollary, has anyone ever encountered a problem with computer resources doing this? Of course it is computer-dependent, but I wonder how many RealTracks can practically be used.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#433597 - 10/15/17 02:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Noel, as a corollary, has anyone ever encountered a problem with computer resources doing this? Of course it is computer-dependent, but I wonder how many RealTracks can practically be used.


I do this a lot and so far have never encountered an issue. My computer specs are listed in my signature. I've done it on different tracks of the same song for various reasons including smoothing solos and fills and panning instruments during playback.


One of my recent posts, the instrumentation was all created and mixed within the BIAB program using multiple instruments on multiple tracks. For instance, the pedal steel guitar and fiddle shared the same track on multiple tracks of the songs and I used F5 Bar Settings to mute, fade and pan the two instruments throughout the song. You can listen - Here _ My Sad Story
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433599 - 10/15/17 02:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Matt Finley]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2628
Well that would give you 26 all up.
But I think it pre mixes the tracks first to a stereo file for the Drum and for the Medley track so ram shouldn't be an issue.
In the MultiDrum window you adjust the volume first, not sure how the Medley would work with "Play All Simultaneously" without a volume offset ?

This works with WinBB Biab Win More Audio & Midi Tracks and gives better mix control with vol/pan/FX for each track, but I haven't found one yet for MacBB.

There should be ReWire in BB18.


Attachments
BB_26_RTs.jpg


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Free Biab Chord Picker Tool (look at the bottom of the page for the latest version.)

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#433604 - 10/15/17 02:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
Experimenting, I just generated a 32 bar, 3 chorus song in the following manner.

Bass Track - 366, 388,519,1008
Piano track - 1874 Medley - 6 Instruments
Drums - the default style - Nashville even 8
guitar - 1319 Medley - 6 Instruments
Strings - 1315 Medley - 6 Instruments
Medley - 1313 Medley - 6 Instruments
Soloist - 1317 Medley - 6 Instruments

Total 35 instruments generated the entire song without a hitch or hiccup.....

Hiccup is the appropriate word because the song sounded like a bunch of drunks.....



Charlie


Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/15/17 02:58 PM)
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433608 - 10/15/17 03:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
Matt, with the exception of the drums track, this can be done repeatedly without stressing the computer resources in the following manner.

Assume the 'style' I created above is something I want to retain and build on....

Render and export this mix to a Wav file.

Import the rendered Wav file to the Audio Track.

Move the Audio track to the Bass Track as a Stereo Performance track.

Kill the Audio Track - Mute the Drums Track **

Replace the remaining tracks other than the Drums track with new Medley Files of 6 Instruments

Render and export this mix to a Wav file.

Import the rendered Wav file to the Audio Track.

Move the Audio track to the Piano Track as a Stereo Performance track.

You can keep repeating the process over and over. There is no loss in quality in the renders.

Using the amazing Performance Track/Audio Track feature allows a user to easily increase the 8 track BIAB limit because together, they function a a Bounce feature.... I consider each render a sub mix and you simply have to live with and be satisfied with each sub mix. However, you can tweak and re-render at each stage of the process to get the mix right...


** - I recently attempted to replace the drums with another instrument and in this instance, which is the only time I've tried, the new instrument was merged with the Drums on the Drums Track. So, if that holds true and the merge is a good mix, this track would also be available to generate an additional instrument.

Charlie


Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/15/17 04:28 PM)
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433609 - 10/15/17 03:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17642
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
That's amazing. Thank you, Charlie, for exploring this before I could get to my production machine to try it. I'm very impressed, both by the feature and by your thoroughness. Good job.

I've been to jam sessions that degenerated into something that sounded like that...
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#433653 - 10/15/17 08:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13699
Loc: Australia
Charlie,

That's an impressive test! Thanks for doing that. The information is very useful. I had no idea what would happen!

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#433671 - 10/16/17 04:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Noel96]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
Hi Noel. Treating BIAB as a multitrack recorder has has been quite useful to me and provided processes pulled from my many years of owning hardware 2 track, 4 track, 8 track recorders, etc.

I have maintained some fashion of a Home Recording Studio continously since 1968. I literally started with a one track (mono) reel to reel from Sears and worked my way up to better recorders from there. I've posted a photo of myself with that first recorder at Christmas 1967.

I went a long time using BIAB without understanding the Performance Track feature. The Performance Track feature is a very powerful and useful tool but it is seldom mentioned in Forum posts and possibly not used a lot. My discovery of the Performance Track feature allows me to do many tasks from within BIAB that I previously had to take to another program such as RealBand or my Studio One DAW or even Audacity.

The Performance Track in conjunction with placing multiple instruments on the same track frees up computer resources by printing a rendered track with effects like Dxi, Vst's to an Audio File and moving the track to another track and freeing up the Audio Track for further use.

The Performance Track and Audio Track allows sub mixes rendered to audio and then returned into BIAB as a Performance Track which is the Bounce technique that extends BIAB beyond the limit of 8 tracks.

I use the Performance/Audio tracks to automate panning, gain changes, fade in and fade out's and to alternate multiple instruments for solos and fills.

Clearly, these tasks may be preferred to be moved to a DAW to complete and I don't recommend anyone throw their DAW away. My intent is not to replace a DAW but simply show these tasks can be completed within the BIAB program. I have found that forcing changes between solo instruments within BIAB produces cleaner transitions than I achieve in a DAW cutting and pasting. Doing transitions in BIAB takes advantage of the generating engine reading ahead and smoothing transitions and solo endings very nicely. I enjoy the results I obtain by placing two instruments on the same track, duplicating these instruments on a 2nd track and rendering these to an audio track after i've prepared my panning, fills and solos using the F5 feature. I render this sub mix to audio, import the audio and move it to a track as a performance track and then render the entire song. Easier to do in a DAW? Probably. However, I enjoy having to plan my song in the same manner I've done for many years and which I find quite satisfying and is a more creative process to me.


Attachments
Scan_Pic0006.jpg




Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/16/17 04:41 AM)
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433680 - 10/16/17 05:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Charlie Fogle]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8385
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
You're a legend Charlie, in more ways than one wink
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BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#433712 - 10/16/17 08:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10692
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Charlie -

This was my first "reel-to-reel" tape recorder. My dad brought this Panasonic back for me when he returned from duty in Viet Nam. It was purchased in Hong Kong on an R&R trip he took.




My sister also got a reel-to-reel tape recorder. She got a Craig, which was the same one that used to go up in smoke on the old "Mission: Impossible" TV series.

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John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
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H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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#433777 - 10/16/17 05:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4128
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Charlie,

The hairstyle looks like someone got up kinda' early to take a peek under the ol' Christmas tree. laugh

Man, the things you keep digging out of the memory chest; unbelievable!
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#433784 - 10/16/17 05:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
You're a legend Charlie, in more ways than one wink


True. My wife tells me I'm a legend in my on mind....


Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/17/17 05:00 AM)
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433786 - 10/16/17 05:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: jford]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
My John. Those are some nice units. I remember the Craig brand and have had several units over the years. Thanks for posting.
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433789 - 10/16/17 05:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Jim Fogle]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
I look like a high school journalist about to take an interview. And the hair, well....
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5

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#433790 - 10/16/17 05:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: jford]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4128
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
John,

I noticed yours came with the round blades power plug. Nice job digitizing the photos too!
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#436541 - 11/04/17 09:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 782
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Matt, with the exception of the drums track, this can be done repeatedly without stressing the computer resources in the following manner.

Assume the 'style' I created above is something I want to retain and build on....

Render and export this mix to a Wav file.

Import the rendered Wav file to the Audio Track.

Move the Audio track to the Bass Track as a Stereo Performance track.

Kill the Audio Track - Mute the Drums Track **

Replace the remaining tracks other than the Drums track with new Medley Files of 6 Instruments

Render and export this mix to a Wav file.

Import the rendered Wav file to the Audio Track.

Move the Audio track to the Piano Track as a Stereo Performance track.

You can keep repeating the process over and over. There is no loss in quality in the renders.

Using the amazing Performance Track/Audio Track feature allows a user to easily increase the 8 track BIAB limit because together, they function a a Bounce feature.... I consider each rendered a sub mix and you simply have to live with and be satisfied with each sub mix. However, you can tweak and re-render at each stage of the process to get the mix right...


** - I recently attempted to replace the drums with another instrument and in this instance, which is the only time I've tried, the new instrument was merged with the Drums on the Drums Track. So, if that holds true and the merge is a good mix, this track would also be available to generate an additional instrument.

Charlie


Please make a video of you doing this. I would love to see the workflow.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#436556 - 11/04/17 10:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Multi Track Real Tracks [Re: Islansoul]
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4590
Loc: South Carolina
At the moment, I don't have software to do the screen captures but I will make some jpg's and post them.




Edited by Charlie Fogle (11/04/17 10:47 AM)
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