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We listen to music more than ever but confine it via Apple Music to what we want to hear or at least to the genres we are interested in. Quitting our band 12 years go and later discovering BiaB are the two best music moves we ever made. The 175 collaborations we have done, yep that many, with members of this forum have restored, in spades, our love of making music.
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I gig and play what they want. I also play songs for myself. It's give and take. Once I have the audience on my side they'll listen to a song they don't know as long as it isn't too out of character. And I play variety gigs for the 50+ audience. I can put pop, reggae, rock, light jazz, salsa, country, and so on into most gigs. 50+ is a big market here, the pay is good, and the gigs are usually 3 hours. They often feed us, and appreciate our performance. And all except for two corporate day jobs that I did while seeing what normal is all about, I've made my living doing music and nothing but music most of my life. The two corporate day jobs taught me that normal is so over-rated.  I'd much rather play "Proud Mary" or "My Way" for a living than work a day job for some thankless corporation so I can play 'art music' at night. I see each as a different kind of sell out, and I like my option much, much better. I remember a day in the phone company. Climbing poles is dangerous, you are held up by two spikes, each no more than an eighth of an inch into the wood and if you get too close to the pole so the angle is wrong, or if the pole splinters, down you go. One day I had to climb the pole in the back yard. Four chain link fences joined at the base of the pole and metal cans are in one yard. Falling means a possibility of hitting the cans or worse coming down straddling one of those fences. So I climb the pole, open the terminal, and about 100 paper wasps had built their nest in there, and weren't happy to have the cover removed. Now moving quickly and not carefully means a possibility of coming down on that fence so with heart pounding, I slowly climb down the pole. Fortunately the wasps didn't realize it was me who exposed their home and although they were buzzing around in quick circles around the nest and pole, I didn't get stung. Playing "Yakety Sax" or any of the other war horses again is much better than climbing a pole with wasps!!!! But I'm weird. When one of the old war horses come out, the worst part is starting the song, once the music starts and I start playing and/or singing, I forget that I've done it too many times, I give it my all, and get lost in the song. It's all just attitude. So I'm playing "Old Time Rock & Roll" for the zillionth time. The audience is digging it, sending good energy back to me, I'm enjoying the groove and I've got two improvised solos coming up, one on the sax and one on the wind synth. And I've already played a few songs just for us in the night, so what's the big deal? How many people get off watching another football or baseball game? Come on- they are basically only two kinds, the one where your team wins, and the one where it loses. Other than that it's the same thing. Or eating the same meal? Watching the same sitcom? Playing the same golf course? There are a lot of fun things we do over and over and over and over again. Playing those old war horses are just like eating another big juicy hamburger or serving of pistachio ice cream. It's all good, and it's all attitude for me. YMMV Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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That is a great attitude and one that I’m sure brings a lot of joy to folks.
Kudos!
J&B
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Let’s add The Girl From Ipanema to the list.
I agree we should play what our audiences want to hear and I try to do that, but there must be limits.
I hope we don’t just cover these hackneyed songs verbatim. We should put our own spin on them.
For instance, I play Hotel California with jazz chord substitutions to a Latin beat.
How about Cat's Cradle as a rumba, or Yesterday as a minuet?
How about With A Little Help From My Friends as a swing tune? Oh wait, it already is.
Last edited by AlastairLC; 10/13/17 03:59 PM.
Cheers! -Alastair
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Somebody called Ipanema a couple years ago and the drummer said, "Didn't you hear, she died".
I definitely should have added that one to my list along with All The Things You Are, Mack The Knife and As Time Goes By. Oh, and Unforgettable. Don't worry, Notes I'll happily do them as requests but if no requests they stay locked up along with Misty and Black Orpheus too. All great songs in their day but that day is long gone just like 20's stride stuff. Who does that on gigs any more? One as a novelty maybe, that's it.
Lately on jazz gigs I've been doing Caravan and Well You Needn't with a hip hop house beat. Works well.
Bob
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Bob, "Well You Needn't" is almost hip-hop to start with. And any day you get to play a Monk tune is a good day. We play one gig, about twice a year, and the guy who still lives there and used to be the one who booked us loves "Misty". So we play it for him, without him asking for it. He's visibly delighted. And you know, playing "Misty" a couple of times a year is like visiting an old friend. Comfortable and enjoyable. And when I improvise a sax solo, I forget the lines I used to fall into and the solo comes out fresh and as an adventure. "New York New York" used to be a big deal around here 20 years ago. Recent Big Apple transplants retiring in Florida would request it. I'd prefer it if they liked Billy Joel's "New York State Of Mind" better, but they didn't. Anyway, we were playing this supperclub. Nice club, manager/maitre d' in an obviously expensive tailored suit, real linens on the table, nice china, and good, well prepared food. This customer came up, put a 5 in the jar and asked for "NYNY". We played it. About a half hour later, another 5 for "NYNY". We played it again. Another half hour, and another 5 for "NYNY". Leilani thinks well on her feet and she got on the mic and announced playfully in an auctioneer voice, "We've got a 5 to play NYNY again. Do I hear 10 not to play it?" At which time I started the intro, it got a laugh, and it solved the problem. The customer dropped another 5 on the way out. We played Thursday - Saturday at that club for about 3 years. It finally closed. The owner made a bunch of money there but went to Miami figuring he could make even more down there. I never heard from him again, and hope he did well. "Yakety Sax" is the song sax players love to hate. It's corny, technically challenging until you get it under your fingers (and I did that in the 1960s), and there is no where to explore. I only play it when requested, and when I do, I do a little playful shtick. As the song speeds up I give horrified looks at Leilani as if she is pushing me to the limits and at the end I'll make some remark about my partner having too much coffee before the gig. And yes, once the music starts and the sax is in my hands, it's not bad at all. And a lot better than those wasps. I met a man playing the piano bar when I did cruise ships back in the 1980s. Irving Bloom, a past president of the New York AFofM. He's no longer with us. He started playing piano for silent movies. "Made $14 a week, more than my father was making." Anyway he said he always played what the public wanted and they never let him down. When Leilani and I started "The Sophisticats" http://www.s-cats.com back in the 1980s, we figured we could play jazz standards mixed with "the American Songbook" because the retirees were of that era. But we collected requests. Pretty soon Cole Porter, Duke Ellington and even Glenn Miller tunes were no longer requested. And mixing in a not too difficult to listen to Horace Silver tune like "Song For My Father" dribbled off the stage in a puddle on the floor. The requests were for Elvis era songs. Now Elvis is mostly passe. We're all the way up to Clapton era songs. Although I miss some of the more challenging standards, I also enjoy the more physical rock tunes. Of course, there is more than one way to do music right. It depends on you, your tastes, your skills, and also the area you find yourself in and the supply and demand for different kinds of music in that area. If you can make a living doing nothing but original material, that's great. If you make a living in a tribute band and like it, that's great too. (To me a tribute band would be better than the wasps, but not much). If you work a day job so you can play art music on the weekends or Monday nights when the regular band is off, and like it, that's good too. On the other hand, if it evolves to where I have to do rap tunes all night, that's when I retire. I can't move my mouth that fast, and if I can't improvise sax, wind synth, or guitar over even a simple chord progression, the thrill will be gone. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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I used to be able to still listen to Imagine--until Yoko Ono stuck her name on it. Now I would rather listen to a pan flute getting ground up in a food processor.
Hotel California: First time I heard it I wanted to ask my Mom: "Mom, if I ever smoke enough weed will I be able to go to Hotel California too??" Great dueling guitar solos though.
Hallelujah. Ok, I got the heebie jeebies the first time I heard this song and I have to plug my ears whenever people sing it. I think: "For the Love of Jesus, Please Stop!" No, wait a minute, that's not what I think. I think:
"Hey totally bummed out and depressed songwriter dude, did you shoot up some smack with Charles Bukowski and fall asleep in a flea bag motel with bed lice and wet yourself while drinking some Smirnoff out of a plastic jug? Is that why you are singing a broken Hallelujah?" Jeez, talk about songs that make you want to shoot yourself.
Ok, I've come clean. Moving right along. Nothing to see here folks.
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Journeyman
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Personally, I'd much rather do the gig where I would "have to play":
Brown Eyed Girl
Mustang Sally
La Bamba
Wooly Booly
Margeritaville
Louie Louie
Wild Thing
Feelings
Gloria
Suzie Q
Johnny B Goode
Satisfaction
Then...
All About That Bass
Blurred Lines
Call Me Maybe
Sorry
Gangham Style
Roar
Single ladies
We Are Never Getting Back Together
Etc,etc...
You noticed I did leave out The Chicken Dance:)
Just my two cents.
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Man, I will come to hear you and pay you some really good money if you don't play All About that Bass and Single Ladies. If you do, I will ask that you pay me. Deal?
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Expert
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You guys have wiped out a large part of my set lists! So now I'm modernizing.  Hype is part of the problem. I've forced myself to listen to Amy Winehouse (Whine house) at length, because she was supposed to be an exceptional singer. I can't see it. To me she sounds like a wailing cat with moronic lyrics. I'm okay with a couple of tracks, but I just can't see the fuss. Nothing personal. The same with Oasis. Not bad songs, but comparisons to the Beatles! Only geographically. I do force myself to listen to a lot of the latest chart music, and I love some of it. With a 12 year old, female obsessed music fan and her mates I have to remove the ignorant, women hating, violent and moronic rubbish from the pop.  I'm pretty liberal, but sadly about 8-9 out of 10 songs are unsuitable and I'm just talking blunt not the suggestive stuff (milk shakes, big bums, etc). 
Last edited by lambada; 10/15/17 04:27 AM.
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For listening: retire anything where the singer relies on auto-tune.
There are plenty of singers who can actually sing on pitch.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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You’ll have to pry my wooly bully out of my cold dead hands.
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The ironic thing is they use auto-tune as an effect even when they can sing very well. Massively overused in modern pop. There's a few interesting youtube videos showing artists singing their songs with and without auto-tune.
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I dislike it when I can hear the auto-tune. It's a big turn-off for me.
Plus I think it diminishes the inflections that a singer puts into the song. I play with the pitch when I sing or play melody on an instrument.
I may hit a note flat on purpose and slowly bring it up to pitch in a blues ballad to create and relieve tension on one note, I might sing a high note sharp on purpose for effect, I might slowly waver the pitch off and on, and so on. These are expressive elements that auto-tune either removes entirely or greatly diminishes.
Plus when you hear those artifacts, you know that singer isn't even close to on pitch.
I know other appreciate that and my taste isn't universal nor am I the arbiter of good taste, but on my sax and voice I've worked on pitch since I was a little kid. I added wind synth and guitar later. I play with pitch. I'm able to be on pitch most of the time if I want and I am off pitch when I want to use it as a tension creating effect.
And IMHO anyone who cannot sing a song without auto-tune doesn't deserve to call themselves a singer.
But that's drifting off topic.
Back on topic. Songs will retire themselves when the public gets tired of them. Nobody requests "Camptown Races", "Sophisticated Lady", "When Sunny Gets Blue", "Stardust" or "Amapola" anymore. In the case of "Sophisticated Lady" and "When Sunny Gets Blue" I think that's a shame.
Insights, incites and a minor rant by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I dislike it when I can hear the auto-tune. It's a big turn-off for me.
I dislike it when it is used to mask entire poor performances. On my CD there were spots where my engineer used elastic audio to bring a note here and there up a few cents to lock it in, particularly where it stood out because it was matching a fiddle note or something that made it obvious. But doesn't that really work in tandem with how music is now visual more than anything? The bombastic stage shows, all the background dancers (we used to have background singers), a large part of the shows prerecorded.... It stopped being about music years ago. How else can you explain Britney Spears or those Simpson people, whatever their names are? Particularly the one that was on Saturday Night Live and they played here first song when she was supposed to be on her second song? AND THEN she compounded the fracture by saying "I can't believe my band started playing the wrong song..." The purity of music is LONG gone. Remember when bands just stood and played and sang? The Eagles? CSNY? Chicago? I saw a video as part of a news story that was a dig at Mariah Carey. The story pointed out how much of a footnote she has become. She was on stage, stuffed like a kielbasi into some outfit that was borderline obscene, and as she sang, she WALKED 3 steps left, then 3 steps right, back and forth, all while a line of 8 dancers flanking her were actually dancing, the illusion supposedly that she was part of the dance number (and she was not - she was barely moving). At one point, she sneezed. During both the "aaaaah" and the "chooo" part of the sneeze, her singing never stopped. It was SO obvious that her show was being faked. As fat and out of shape as she has gotten, she ain't dancin' NOWHERE!! Sad too, because she used to be good back before she went crazy. And that was the perfect example of the state of commercial music today. 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8zeJipm1s There is still some great music being played. And what a live mixing job! Regards, Bob
Last edited by 90 dB; 10/16/17 05:10 AM. Reason: et cetera
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We've sort of beaten the dead horse enough about old songs so I'll relate this story since Gangham Style was mentioned.
A sax player buddy is a member of the Manhattan Beach Country Club. It's not golf, it's tennis. We've done one or two gigs a year there for 20 years doing mostly Real Book and light fusion stuff. They had a nice restaurant/bar with a Yamaha grand and a small dance floor. This is exactly your type of place Notes. They decided to completely shut down and remodel about 3 years ago. My friend calls me to say he got us gig by the pool about 18 months into the renovation. We show up, and start doing our stuff. The gig was for the end of the tennis tourny. They always have a few touring pros show up for it every year. I notice the crowd around the pool is mostly 25-35 or so. In the middle of the third song the manager comes up to him and says "Sorry, Jerry I have to shut you down, here's your check. We're bringing in a DJ who's going to be here in 15 minutes, please clear the area by then."
The DJ shows up, I had managed to get my keyboards packed up and off to the side but I hadn't schlepped my stuff out to the car yet. The DJ immediately set up one of his speakers and plugged in his phone just to get things started and what was the song? Gangham Style. It was blasting right in the side of my head while I grabbed my stuff. That got the party going, seriously. This was what that gig truly was. At the Manhattan Beach Country Club!! The cheapest house in MB starts at about 1.5 mil and goes up from there. I said the crowd was mostly young. There were maybe a half dozen older folks lounging by the pool and they immediately left along with us. Talk about getting booted off a gig! At least we got paid.
That's when I knew it was the beginning of the end for all of our traditional classic jazz, MOR type of gigs I've been doing for 30 years. This crowd is the kids of the older members and they are taking over.
It makes sense when you think about it. How old are the children of 55-70 year old parents? What music did they grow up with? They come from wealthy families, they're professionals just like their parents, have plenty of money and they're the drivers of the culture now not us. I guarantee these kids wanted to do this 10 years ago but the old guard dies hard.
Like any other revolution it doesn't happen all at once, it's gradual but man, what a wakeup call that was. The renovations completed a few months later, my friend is still a member but the bar is gone, the piano is gone along with the dance floor. No more inside gigs, they'll book parties by the pool and afaik, it's mostly DJ's.
If this happened at the MB Country Club, it's happening at other clubs too.
Bob
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I do agree with 90 db that "there is still some great music being played". However, you have to search it out. It's not what you see on the Grammys...someone needs to explain to me why Beonce is a "genius?"
A lot of good music is coming out of the Americana genre, which seems to be pretty broad, and includes styles ranging from as roots rock n' roll to old time country. I'm encouraged by the fact that there is a whole new younger generation playing this music, and by the way, playing it quite well.
As far as age groups are concerned, I play 50's and 60's instrumental guitar (Duane Eddy, Ventures, surf music, etc.) with BIAB backing tracks at various wine bars and restaurants in my area, that cater to all age groups. Of course the older crowd appreciate hearing the old tunes, but I'm impressed by how many younger listeners are digging what I'm doing.
My belief is that "good music, played well, equals an appreciate audience".
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Yes and in spite of my last post, I've seen that too. There are young people who dig what we do but the problem is the lack of venues to play. Around LA they are few and far between and they pay squat. There are several high end places like the Catalina Bar and Grill where you go to see big names like Chick Corea and others so that's good from a fans POV but as far as the little local places I used to play 20 years ago? Pretty much all gone.
Bob
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Eddie, it's nothing new.
Many years ago I went to a big rock fest. I wanted to see Dr. John (who didn't show up) and during the Alice Cooper part of the show, he went to the gallows to be hanged, and the tape broke (it was pre-digital so it must have been tape). The band continued to march around the stage, pretending to play their instruments. The only sound was from the parade drum the drummer was marching with and Vince/Alice was eventually hanged. Then the stage went dark for about 20 seconds and the show started again.
That must have been in the 1970s.
When I worked on the cruise ships in the 1980s, the main show was all taped, except for the lead singer who was live. The band played from charts accompanying the click track, the background dancers lip-synced the backing parts and the lead male dancer lip synced the duet parts with the live production singer.
I wasn't in the band, Leilani and I were the duo in one of the small lounges.
Later, probably in the 1990s the music store/recording studio I used to patronize and get sax session work got some new Korg sampling keyboards from a Madonna tour, and if you pressed the keys of one in chromatic order you got Madonna saying "Are you ready boys" (up a half step) "Let's hit it" and so on.
I'm also old enough to remember American Bandstand where the guest singer would come and lip-sync to his/her record.
When I was on the road, monitors were non-existent so the background singers always shared a mic so we could hear each other, and watch each other's lips so we could articulate at the same time. After years of doing that, it's pretty easy for me to see if someone is lip-syncing and believe me there is a lot of that going on.
I suppose a good number of the major shows are prerecorded now. The venues are huge, and if anyone important enough to be a show-stopper gets sick, the promoters are out a lot of money. Cancelling the show, paying the venue anyway, refunding the tickets, and so on. Not that I agree, it's just what it is.
And there has also been a lot of fraud in the business. At one time there were 4 groups called "The Platters" touring the country. None of them had Tony Williams, the lead singer on their records in the group.
The Kingston Trio is still touring with no original or recording members. How can you have Earth Wind And Fire without Maurice White? That would be like the Rolling Stones touring without Mick Jagger.
The groups touring with no original members or no original lead singer are nothing more than tribute bands but getting premium ticket prices.
When I was young I saw The Ink Spots. They were all in their 20s and the front man mentioned that his uncle was one of the original Ink Spots.
But at least the Ink Spots were live.
Even Leilani and I are not 100% live. We'd love to be in a bigger band, but we like to eat and pay the mortgage too. Before the duo we were in a 5 piece band. The price we get for the duo is $100 less than what they paid for all 5 pieces.
But I do make my own backing tracks, sometimes with the help of BiaB, sometimes from scratch playing live into a sequencer/DAW. And we play guitars, keyboard synths, wind synths, sax, flute, and voice over the top. I save all the fun parts to be played live, so it's kind of like playing with a band that reads charts.
There is still a lot of good, live music being played but good live bands, there are half and half bands like Leilani and I, and there are entertainment shows like the lip-sync kings and queens. I guess it's all show-biz.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,590
Posts734,781
Members38,502
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Jan 19th, 2020
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