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#434313 - 10/19/17 07:41 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2264
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?


This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic



Cool track Charlie. Can you find something similar for a public domain song and I will accept the challenge from j*3. (Then, if if turns out well I can submit for licensing...)

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#434314 - 10/19/17 07:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4358
Loc: South Carolina
Ok. If you want to do a modern project I'll be glad to help you anyway you think I can. I will PM you with a song I'd actually been thinking of doing and been playing around with it in BIAB. (Yes Floyd, I'm sure it can be done in BIAB) ;=)

May be late tomorrow before I can get a message out. I have a 200 mile trip to take tomorrow early.
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#434322 - 10/19/17 10:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13052
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel
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#434328 - 10/20/17 02:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: floyd jane]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2141
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3.not a bad idea. Post a link of something you think sounds "modern" and I will try. Bear in mind I tend to do pop, Americana and country more than jazz, rock or blues☺️ I won't try to recreate it exactly but will try to make it sound "modern".

Something like this maybe? https://youtu.be/tebjshm7f_I

yeah, that's a perfect example of modern. do that one.


Y'all ARE joking, right?

A 68 year old rock'n'roller - who's entire career is steeped in the tradition of rock and folk - and prides himself on that - singing an old Negro spiritual - first recorded 100 years ago - in an arrangement that is basically Dixieland/New Orleans/Folk using all acoustic (traditional) instruments.

And THAT is you definition of "modern"?

I assumed Joanne was joking so my reply was joking.

By modern I meant something written and recorded and charted within the last five years or so. Maybe something like,

Imagine Dragons - I Bet My Life or Thunder
Sia - Chandelier or Elastic Heart
Rag'n'Bone Man - Human or Skin
Lorde - Green Light or Royals
JP Cooper - September Song
Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
Avicii - Wake Me Up

Some of these seem "doable" with some serious editing and combining RealTracks from various styles. I guess I see how it could be done but it still seems like BIAB is designed to create almost instant classics whereas more modern music would require a greater effort that includes some serious editing.

Just in going through these I am seeing pop really depends on strong vocals or even vocals with f/x. Of course BIAB cannot help with that part! I guess I am seeing the possibilities but I still need to learn a lot.

And I welcome anyone's advice on how to best create modern stuff with BIAB!

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#434330 - 10/20/17 04:23 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2264
Loc: South Africa
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Edited by JoanneCooper (10/20/17 06:11 AM)

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#434335 - 10/20/17 06:37 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JoanneCooper]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5608
Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
J*3 are you wanting to "reproduce" these songs exactly using RealTracks? If so I am not the person to show you how to do it. laugh What I can do is produce my own rendition of a song that I would call "modern" but it wont sound like the original. There are definitely others on this forum who would be able to do this using MIDI (or a mixture of MIDI and RealTracks). If so, my question would be "why". If not and you want one of your original songs to sound this way you have to have
1. A GREAT song
2. Excellent arranging skills
3. Fantastic vocals.

None of these can BIAB help you with.

PS. This guys is the biggest thing in SA at the moment.... https://youtu.be/S1XHMF4ft50


Bingo! that's correct.

Yep, that's a great example of "modern" music.

You can duplicate pretty closely some of the radio songs that aren't standard pattern songs.... I've done one that was really close...a cover tune but, I'm not able to post it online. Rules and such..... To accomplish it, I had to play much of the song parts myself and use BB where it could fit nicely. I found a style that was pretty close and spent time editing as needed. All depends on your skill levels and how much time you're willing to spend on it.
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#434336 - 10/20/17 06:42 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Noel96]
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 5812
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
This one by Bluegrass artist Dan Tyminski may be a better example??? It's certainly not his Oh Brother Where Art Thou persona of Man of Constant Sorrow...

Southern Gothic


Charlie,

This is a great song! Thanks for posting the link. I doubt that I'd ever have stumbled across this.

Regards,
Noel



For those interested, you can listen to entire album on NPR - though, it releases today, so the listening part will be removed soon...

I listened to the whole thing last night. It is EXCELLENT. and a very good example of "current" - or "modern" if you will... which pretty much just means.... add a BEAT to what you are doing...

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/12/556939387/first-listen-tyminski-southern-gothic
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#434369 - 10/20/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Samuel Davis Offline
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Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 317
Loc: Florida
I've only been using BIAB for a couple months now and I do not have the full version yet. I am working with the 2011 version with the Country Real Pak Vol. 1 add on. I feel a bit limited with what I have at the moment but I can see the potential of what I can do with BIAB. I plan on getting the full version in January but as for now here is my take on it.

I am currently putting together an album of original songs that have a outlaw country feel to them. I would never have been able to do this on my own without BIAB as I don't play many of the instruments that I wanted to use to give it an authentic country sound. I have played the instrumentals I created for the bass player in my band and he is amazed by the quality that you can get form BIAB real tracks. He has sent me instrumentals to write to before that he produced using samples and MIDI. They sound good but the BIAB tracks sound more natural and the quality is better. He is envious of what I have been able to do in such a short time with BIAB and says that he hates and loves it at the same time. He will probably be a BIAB user in the near future (I'm quite sure of it.)

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.
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#434377 - 10/20/17 10:41 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: Samuel Davis]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3599
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.
_________________________
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#434388 - 10/20/17 12:31 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2141
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Originally Posted By: Samuel Davis

As far as making modern sounding music with BIAB I believe that it will be possible when I purchase the full version. I may have to add in some MIDI and VST instruments to get the drums and synths needed to make a modern pop hit but I believe that all the basics needed can be found here in BIAB. I look forward to challenging myself to use the program to it's fullest extent and seeing what I can come up with.


Exactly, if you just spend some time in the styles section and look at the techno, eletronica, and dubstep sections you can find 80% of this in sample loops that will play themselves.

Then go find a mandolin and the right acoustic.

Next find a Real drum track and layer it in, and use a lot of EQ and reverb so it will thump.

Lastly, fill in missing percussion or synth parts with Sample Tank 3 or something similar. Done.

20 minutes.

It's not that hard.

You sure do make it sound easy David! Any chance you'd do a "20 minute" example with maybe a brief blog-type how-to post? Please!! I have been enjoying (and learning from) the blog posts from a couple of other forum folks and this would make a really popular one I would think. Pretty please??? laugh

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#434402 - 10/20/17 03:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3599
Loc: North Carolina
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile
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Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

www.davidsnydermusic.com
www.reverbnation.com./davidpsnyder
www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel
www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder







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#434405 - 10/20/17 03:52 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2141
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
Well, let me see what I can whip up. Might not be immediate.

smile

Cool! Thanks David!

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#439185 - 11/21/17 09:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 2734
Loc: Alabama, USA
One thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few "demonstrations" of BIAB on YouTube that are horribly done. The comments to these so-called "demos" were less than kind - but the "demos" were really, really bad. One person hearing that bad "demo" talks to other musicians and then there are 20 - 30 musicians that have a negative view of the program, many of them never having heard it, or never having heard it properly demo'd.

I'm not referring to PG Music's excellent demos - rather, to someone, a user, who really doesn't know how to properly present the program but creates and posts what he/she calls a "demo". It's really unfortunate.

I've been using BIAB since 2011.5 and still have so much to learn.

Good luck with your writing/composing, folks!

Alan


Edited by Al-David (11/21/17 09:50 AM)
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#439407 - 11/21/17 10:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4358
Loc: South Carolina
< 4) On a related note, there is likely a concern among professional musicians that using a product like BIAB to write original songs is risky because many of the RealTracks have an almost signature sound that can make songs sound too similar to each other. >

With the ability of each track to have as many as 10 different instrument changes it is a very simple matter to put alternate instruments throughout the chord chart that will completely eliminate the signature riffs and create a completely unique and unreplicable track.

Each instrument change provides a tremendous additional amount of audio for the BIAB search engine to access as it reads the chord changes. You can program the changes either by using the Part Markers or Song Settings using the RealTrack Button near the top of the window. Even alternating between two instruments doubles the amount of audio available to the Biab search engine and up to 5 changes per instrument.

I use the Stylepicker to quickly audition many Realtracks (4-5 instruments per Style) and normally filter my search by the artist's name. It's not unusual to find the artist playing in another style but using the same instrument with a similar tone that will play nicely as a replacement instrument to customize your track.
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#441448 - 11/29/17 12:51 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB as Disruptive Technology [Re: David Snyder]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6477
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Cool thread. David you mentioned Harvey Gerst earlier. I had a great forum conversation with him 6 or 8 years ago. I don't believe he's posted since then. He knew Peter from before he started PG Music.

Harvey doesn't exactly "use" Biab in the sense we all think of. He talked about mostly using it for band demo songs for folks on a very limited budget, not day long studio sessions. Say guy and girl vocalists with basic strumming live guitar, bass and drums. Their budget is $300 and they're doing three songs. That's pretty much turn the stuff on, roll tape for an hour, done. When he's doing the mixdown after everybody has left he decides he wants 8 bars of something to sweeten up verse 2 or whatever. There's no budget to bring in another player. He'll find a few RT's, generate several versions, pick one and plug in those 8 bars, sometimes it was only 2 bars like a short Brent Mason lick . Yes he's using Biab but not too much.

He posted a few examples of this and it sounded absolutely awesome. That dude knows his stuff and I think his son has taken over the studio now.

Bob
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PG Music News
New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac packages during our release special (which ends May 31st!).
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac release special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=fzkX6jO_hW4

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)!

Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=7ZrfGSqjaOU

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade - on sale until May 31st!

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Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned and is now built into Band-in-a-Box®. Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app and not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit window.

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Everything You Need to Know in Under 5 Minutes!

Want to quickly see the new features included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac in action?

Check out this video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® ! Everything you need to know in under 5 minutes*: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=XSSQpijRyxk

*The video includes an extra 2 minutes for the 49-PAK! The first 5 minutes show you all of the great new features and content available with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac®, and it's followed by additional video showing off the 2018 49-PAK for Mac.

Xtra Styles PAKs are ON SALE until May 31st!

Xtra Styles PAK 4 was initially released with our Windows version of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows, and with the release of our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac, we're having a sale!

Xtra Styles PAK 4 has over 150 RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles, which work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK/UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

We've put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE until May 31st! Purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=mac

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 45 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac is here, and there's more than 80 new features! We've answered some user requests with this release, including:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I use the feature to make a video of the chord sheet from a Band-in-a-Box song. I use it to make backing tracks and upload them to YouTube. But these don't include any notation for the melody and lyrics of my songs. My viewers would like to see the melody and lyrics too. Is there a way you can include the melody in the video? I've tried recording this with screen capture programs, but it's time consuming, recording in real time, and the audio quality and sync are not that good.

A. Yes, Band-in-a-Box 2018 can do this now. You can save your song as a video of the notation track. So that includes the notation, guitar tab, and lyrics. And saving the whole video and audio just takes a few seconds, much faster than real time recording. Just load in your song with chords, melody, lyrics, and/or guitar tab, and press Save-As Notation Video. Your song will be up on YouTube in no time!

Q. I am songwriter and uses Band-in-a-Box to make backing tracks for my productions. I'm starting to make videos and upload them to YouTube. Can Band-in-a-Box help with my production videos?

A. Band-in-a-Box 2018 can now make videos with Video RealTracks, of the musicians performing the RealTracks. And they are playing along to your song's chord progression. You can include these videos in your own song performance, which adds a nice visual element.

Q. I use the Audio Harmonies in Band-in-a-Box. But I find the harmonies simplistic, in that they are mainly using chord tones. The Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmonies are more sophisticated, using passing tones. Why can't my Audio Harmonies work like that?

A. We've added support for new types of Audio Harmonies in the Audio Edit Window. These do allow you to choose any Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmony that has passing tones or sophisticated jazz voicings (adding 4 parts to make a 5-part jazz voicing for example). Band-in-a-Box automatically figures out the MIDI version of your melody so it uses this to create the harmonies.

Q. The new toolbar is nice, but needs more color options. Too much grey! How about skins?

A. We've added support for skins, and you can choose color or grey scale options for toolbar, mixer etc.

And more!!!

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.new.htm

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