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#434364 - 10/20/17 09:31 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Handbells
Islansoul Offline
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Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 771
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
I would like to see some Real Tracks with handbells to use for Christmas and sacred music.
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#434379 - 10/20/17 10:51 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Handbells would be awesome!

+1 from me.
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John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
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H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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#434416 - 10/20/17 05:04 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3912
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+1
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
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#434504 - 10/21/17 10:11 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17405
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Ooh - good idea!!! Love that sound.

But I wonder, how would it work in practice? Do we have anything else remotely like this? Music for a handbell choir is normally sheet music, and RealTracks don't reproduce the individual notes and voicings of sheet music (you need MIDI for that). RealTracks also don't work for Melody or Soloist notes.

To get RealTracks, somebody has to play and record. In other words, how would it work if you just fed a handbell choir a G13(#11) chord, or even a Bm7, and asked it to record that? Or am I missing something?
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#434667 - 10/22/17 10:45 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8207
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Good idea.
I guess that hand-bells would have a common pitch, not affected by the pitch transposition engine (which is possible to do). However, they would need to be time-stretched to match tempo etc (which I understand is also possible to do).
+1
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#434716 - 10/22/17 05:40 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
A lot of choral handball accompaniment is very chordal, so I can see this working.
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HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
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#434719 - 10/22/17 05:44 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: jford]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17405
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: jford
A lot of choral handball accompaniment is very chordal, so I can see this working.

Thanks John, I didn’t know that. All the handbell choirs I’ve seen read regular 4-part sheet music.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#434789 - 10/23/17 10:18 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Handbell choirs will play melodic pieces, because they have to, but there's a lot of choral pieces that in addition to organ/piano/strings accompaniment also has handbell accompaniment which is chordal, as the choir will be singing the melody and melodic harmony. In that setting, the bells become more of an accompaniment instrument, much like the piano or organ. For strictly bell choir music, I agree, this wouldn't work well, because the bell choir will be playing melody and harmony often in unison syncopation.

Granted, as RealTracks, you won't have control over what rhythms they play, but that's the same as with any other instrument RealTrack. I think it would make a nice addition to the RealTracks and would definitely be great for those of us who are involved in church music programs.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

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#434829 - 10/23/17 12:34 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: jford]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3912
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
As indicated earlier in my first post I think this is a great request and fully support it.

Question for others with an opinion. Is there a hand bell expert that PG Music could contact for advise on how best to fulfill the request of creating hand bells Realtracks while also getting the most bang for the buck? I can think of a whole list of questions like:

What are the most used tempo ranges? Are both 3/4 and 4/4 time signatures needed? What are most popular key signatures?
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#434849 - 10/23/17 02:10 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
What are the most used tempo ranges? Are both 3/4 and 4/4 time signatures needed? What are most popular key signatures?


I personally wish that every RealTrack instrument came in both 3/4 and 4/4 versions, 8th-even and 16th-even and 8th-triplet (6/8 or 12/8) and 16th-triplet and quarter-triplet (3 against 2), across a variety of tempos. If the player is in the studio, it would be great if they could lay down tracks supporting those variations. I know it would take time to do that, but it would be awesome to not limit those wonderful sounds to, say, even 8 120 4/4.

8th (even), 3/4, 60bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 60bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 60bm
16th (even), 3/4, 60bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 60bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 60bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 60bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 60bm
16th (even), 4/4, 60bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 60bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 80bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 80bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 80bm
16th (even), 3/4, 80bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 80bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 80bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 80bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 80bm
16th (even), 4/4, 80bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 80bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 100bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 100bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 100bm
16th (even), 3/4, 100bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 100bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 100bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 100bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 100bm
16th (even), 4/4, 100bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 100bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 120bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 120bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 120bm
16th (even), 3/4, 120bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 120bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 120bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 120bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 120bm
16th (even), 4/4, 120bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 120bpm

etc. up to whatever tempo is appropriate.

You wouldn't need to specifically select which tempo and key signature you want; it will do that automatically based on your song tempo and key signature; however, you should be able to select the feel you want among the five feels listed (8th even, 8th triplet, 1/4 triplet, 16th even, 16th triplet).

But that may just be me.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

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#434853 - 10/23/17 02:18 PM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17405
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Right; when I go into a studio as either sideman or producer, I and other players lay down as much as possible.

Jim, good suggestion to find someone who really knows handbells and the literature. John has shown me there’s more to it than I thought.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#436546 - 11/04/17 09:27 AM [Styles and RealTracks Wishlist] Re: Handbells [Re: jford]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 771
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: jford
Quote:
What are the most used tempo ranges? Are both 3/4 and 4/4 time signatures needed? What are most popular key signatures?


I personally wish that every RealTrack instrument came in both 3/4 and 4/4 versions, 8th-even and 16th-even and 8th-triplet (6/8 or 12/8) and 16th-triplet and quarter-triplet (3 against 2), across a variety of tempos. If the player is in the studio, it would be great if they could lay down tracks supporting those variations. I know it would take time to do that, but it would be awesome to not limit those wonderful sounds to, say, even 8 120 4/4.

8th (even), 3/4, 60bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 60bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 60bm
16th (even), 3/4, 60bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 60bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 60bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 60bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 60bm
16th (even), 4/4, 60bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 60bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 80bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 80bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 80bm
16th (even), 3/4, 80bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 80bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 80bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 80bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 80bm
16th (even), 4/4, 80bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 80bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 100bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 100bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 100bm
16th (even), 3/4, 100bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 100bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 100bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 100bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 100bm
16th (even), 4/4, 100bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 100bpm

8th (even), 3/4, 120bpm
8th (triplet), 3/4, 120bpm
1/4 (triplet), 3/4, 120bm
16th (even), 3/4, 120bpm
16th (triplet), 3/4, 120bpm

8th (even), 4/4, 120bpm
8th (triplet), 4/4, 120bpm
1/4 (triplet), 4/4, 120bm
16th (even), 4/4, 120bpm
16th (triplet), 4/4, 120bpm

etc. up to whatever tempo is appropriate.

You wouldn't need to specifically select which tempo and key signature you want; it will do that automatically based on your song tempo and key signature; however, you should be able to select the feel you want among the five feels listed (8th even, 8th triplet, 1/4 triplet, 16th even, 16th triplet).

But that may just be me.


If PG Music could get this request done, I would tell everyone I know to buy it.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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