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#434424 - 10/20/17 05:48 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: North Carolina
Hey,

To follow another thread in BIAB, there is tons of stuff to make "modern sounds" in BIAB.

Modern is about 4 things:

1. Bass.

2. Loops.

3. Kit Drums over loops.

4. Less is more.

The screenshots below show a "doctored" approach to a Rapstyle in BIAB. _Raprock.style

Using this a starting point, I killed the electric, and added a chill loop to the drums used here. (See picture.)

If too hard to see, I replaced some tracks in the style by going to Select Real Tracks in existing tracks in the style Raprock and adding:

Acoustic 703

Acoustic 2678

Chillout Loop Destiny 71



I might also open another BIAB file later and select Rock Hard LA drums ( I think that's what they are called) export those drums, and mix those in as well inside the DAW project for like the second verse to end.

I.e, you want to "pile percussion" on but do it in phases, and cut it up some so the drum mix is constantly changing. Your goal is to hypnotize people and keep them guessing. You want them to go into a trance.

And use some acoustic guitar. See the choices I have made in the screen shot but experiment. (I know they are hard to read in the screenshot so I gave them above.)

If at loss for chord progressions, go the demos of the techno, ballad, or electronica styles and study the chord progressions. Again, less is more. Keep listening to demos and study them until you see the very simple progressions that work.

Then, go to the mic like Mick Jagger and just start babbling some stuff until you hear stuff that sounds cool coming out of your mouth. Don't "try" to write modern lyrics. Just keep babbling away like Mick and have fun until you hear the right words coming out. You will know the hook when you hear it. Let the music tell you what to sing, not the other way around. Record what you babble. Keep the good stuff.

Then when you go to add additional tracks be SPARSE.

You maybe only need one other guitar or a simple catchy synth riff you can play yourself.

Keep it SIMPLE.

If you find yourself going over 6 or 7 tracks you have gone too far.

Put one cool riff left and one cool riff right and sing down the middle and you will be good.

That is modern.

Give it a whirl and experiment.

If you use electric, please load your free amplitube that came with your package and study the drop down presets by right clicking on the track.

See screenshot.

Trust me. All you need to make modern stuff is here, you just have to study it and mix some really simple stuff.

For EQ go to Variety of Sound (google it) and download their entire free package of VSTS if you are using Real Band. (They are 32 bit.) There is a great free reverb rack here and other tools to put on the drums and vox. Master them.

But some Variety of Sound BootEQ on the drums or a bus compressor with glue if you have good paid stuff.

You will be sounding like Beck in no time.

Just make the drums and bass pop and the acoustic snap.

Give us a cool synth riff with 5 notes and sing some happy lyrics that will make us smile.

The Grammy's are yours.

Peace out.



Attachments
Modern 1.jpg

Amps1.jpg


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#434432 - 10/20/17 07:41 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4169
Loc: South Carolina
If David's explanation is too brief or you want a more in-depth look into a modern mix, you may enjoy this 6 hr and 5 min video of a complete individual track mix of a commercial release of a modern song titled Young and Restless

Charlie
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:Build 512, RB 2018 Build 5; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#434434 - 10/20/17 08:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Thanks for the quickie tutorial David!! I really appreciate that!

I followed your steps and built the song using the starting style and tracks you listed. It sounds pretty cool but I'm not sure it sounds modern to me. More like classic backing track with a drum loop added! smile Any chance you'd share your 15-minute song so I can see what I might have done wrong or left out?

I know there is more I could do like changing it up all over the place, maybe changing styles or tracks in various places and of course strong pop vocals. But, unlike many classic songs that don't change it up a ton, these modern pop songs need a lot of additional work it would seem.

At the risk of sounding lazy(which I am!) I would love to see some modern styles that make use of part markers to bring in a variety of tracks/soloists and let BIAB do the heavy lifting to create my modern pop song! smile

For example, when I first bought BIAB I discovered a RealStyle called _BGMEDLY and it has 10 different part markers from a-j instead of the more common a and b. This allows me to quickly put together a classic bluegrass song that has two solo options for four different instruments and two options for no solos! I was hopeful and kinda expecting that many more RealStyles would be set up this way but it seems this one was an exception rather than a rule.

I will keep trying and see if changing out more tracks, changing the style at various points, etc. will get me closer to something I would consider modern. Thanks again and any follow up tips or examples would be greatly appreciated!

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#434436 - 10/20/17 08:22 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: Charlie Fogle]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
If David's explanation is too brief or you want a more in-depth look into a modern mix, you may enjoy this 6 hr and 5 min video of a complete individual track mix of a commercial release of a modern song titled Young and Restless

Charlie

Thanks Charlie! That looks like a great video! It may be a bit too in-depth for me at this point at over 6 hours in length! smile I watched the first 15 minutes and can see it is very informative.

I guess my focus right now is seeing what I can do with BIAB to get closer to a modern sound without doing it all in my DAW. When I work on a classic bluegrass or country song in BIAB I find it outputs something that needs very little attention in the DAW. I'd love to see how close to that I could get with BIAB for modern pop songs.

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#434441 - 10/20/17 09:30 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Samuel Davis Online   content
Apprentice

Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 204
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Thanks for the quickie tutorial David!! I really appreciate that!

I followed your steps and built the song using the starting style and tracks you listed. It sounds pretty cool but I'm not sure it sounds modern to me. More like classic backing track with a drum loop added! smile Any chance you'd share your 15-minute song so I can see what I might have done wrong or left out?

I know there is more I could do like changing it up all over the place, maybe changing styles or tracks in various places and of course strong pop vocals. But, unlike many classic songs that don't change it up a ton, these modern pop songs need a lot of additional work it would seem.

At the risk of sounding lazy(which I am!) I would love to see some modern styles that make use of part markers to bring in a variety of tracks/soloists and let BIAB do the heavy lifting to create my modern pop song! smile

For example, when I first bought BIAB I discovered a RealStyle called _BGMEDLY and it has 10 different part markers from a-j instead of the more common a and b. This allows me to quickly put together a classic bluegrass song that has two solo options for four different instruments and two options for no solos! I was hopeful and kinda expecting that many more RealStyles would be set up this way but it seems this one was an exception rather than a rule.

I will keep trying and see if changing out more tracks, changing the style at various points, etc. will get me closer to something I would consider modern. Thanks again and any follow up tips or examples would be greatly appreciated!


Well of coarse to get a great sound you have to put the work in to your DAW to cut up the parts and add effects. Even with my classic contry sounding tunes i do that. BIAB makes a lot of great sounding tracks but being auto generated it can only do so much on it's own. Knowing BIAB is only half the battle. You also need to know your DAW and how to manipulate the BIAB tracks within it.


Edited by Samuel Davis (10/20/17 09:31 PM)
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#434448 - 10/21/17 12:29 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
Samuel Davis Online   content
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Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 204
Loc: Florida
I decided To see what I could come up with on the fly when I got home from my gig tonight. I made this using 3 real tracks from BIAB. I exported the MIDI from the drum track to use with Groove Agent in my DAW (Cubase.) I then added 2 VST instruments and done in about 30 minutes. Took a little extra time for mixing, a quick master and upload to Soundcloud... so all together took about an hour.

https://soundcloud.com/user-742389722/slow-dark-modern-country

Keep in mind this is based off of a country rock song style and I am working with BIAB 2011 an I only have one realtrack add on at this time. When I get the full version in January I'm sure I'll be able to do much more.
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#434451 - 10/21/17 01:25 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
That is pretty cool Samuel! Thanks for the example and sharing how you built it. I could imagine some powerful country vocals coming in to make it shine!

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#434463 - 10/21/17 05:21 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: Samuel Davis]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: North Carolina
Great work Samuel.

That is exactly what I am talking about. That is the FIRST 20 to 30 minutes just like I said. Basic bed done. Samuel, thanks for doing the work for me man. smile Good job!

My quick tutorial was just to show ONE potential starting point.

To Samuel's response, BIAB simply gives you 80% or more of the sounds you will hear out there in the world today. "Modern" changes every day as a definition but right now it's about bass, kits drums mixed with loops, lots of cuts and splices, interesting arrangements where stuff keeps changing, sparse instrumentation, killer synth riffs and a lot of experimentation.

The other 20% comes in when you play you own riffs, on any instrument--most often synth or guitar. Acoustic is really big right now. People are taking a break on electric in most areas outside of country, at least for this month. Kind of a joke, but the days of 20 minute electric solos and guitar dominated music are over.

Experimentation means you have to work your butt off. Beck probably spends two days just finalizing the INITIAL percussion bed on a song. Maybe more.

You can't expect BIAB to have a style that you can just pull up and all of a sudden sound modern. If you do the "let me just find a style" thing then you WILL have a classic backing track which is the best they can do for you in this known universe. If you want to sound like an artist or "modern" you have to take the BIAB track, samples and loops into your DAW and work, work, work like a dog. It's what everyone else does.

I was just showing the very beginning of the work flow and one very simple example. Simple on purpose. The rest is up to you and your imagination.

It's what music is about.

Peace out.
_________________________
David Snyder
Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

www.davidsnydermusic.com
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www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel
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#434473 - 10/21/17 06:41 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
You can't expect BIAB to have a style that you can just pull up and all of a sudden sound modern. If you do the "let me just find a style" thing then you WILL have a classic backing track which is the best they can do for you in this known universe.

This is what I have been assuming for the most part. With BIAB I can quickly enter chords, pick a style and output a relatively complete classic song. But not so much with modern music I guess.

Originally Posted By: David Snyder
You can't expect BIAB to have a style that you can just pull up and all of a sudden sound modern.

I bet that same sentiment could have been accurately expressed about bluegrass, country, rock and other classic styles before the implementation of RealTracks! Here's hoping they are able to get closer to the same result for more recent (modern) music in the future!

Thanks again for sharing your insights!

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#434475 - 10/21/17 07:02 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: North Carolina
Not necessarily.

There is a huge difference between "songs" and compositions.

A lot of country and classic rock and ballads use predictable song forms, song structures, chords and instruments. That is why BIAB can pull it off--in say Bluegrass.

Many "modern" songs as people refer to them (with a wide berth for definitions on what that means) are COMPOSITIONS. Meaning, they are pieced together.

There is no way BIAB will ever be able to take the place of your brain on the composing front. If you want to compose, you HAVE TO piece things together. BIAB just gives you the sounds.

I think the two different worlds are getting mixed up here and that's the problem.

Not to be sarcastic, please trust me I'm not, but what you have essentially just said is "If BIAB can give me classic bluegrass songs, why can't it give me classic modern songs?"

The very definitions don't match. I think the songs you are referring to (if I am guessing correctly) are compositions, and for that, you will have to simply work really hard for a really long time at your mixing board.

BUT, you can at least get started by locating some sounds in about 20 minutes. That's what I mean. The rest could take days. It takes days for everyone else.

Peace.
_________________________
David Snyder
Audiophile Everything + Studio + Instruments + Fingers
ASCAP, NSAI

www.davidsnydermusic.com
www.reverbnation.com./davidpsnyder
www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel
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#434481 - 10/21/17 08:01 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5472
Loc: Chicago
Great points and discussion, very interesting. Thanks for providing this insight.
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#434487 - 10/21/17 09:19 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Originally Posted By: David Snyder
what you have essentially just said is "If BIAB can give me classic bluegrass songs, why can't it give me classic modern songs?"


No, I am actually acknowledging that it cannot while expressing the wish that it could!

As an example, before BIAB you simply could not produce a bluegrass backing track without a great BG band. Then, BIAB, with RealTracks, delivered something really amazing. You can enter an appropriate chord progression, use the bgmedly style, leave space for vocals and quickly produce a bluegrass song with four separate instrument solos so authentic sounding that it fools even great BG players!

And I guarantee you if someone had said this was possible before RealTracks they would have been assured it was not and would never be possible. But the clever folks at PG did it!

If I am understanding what you and others are saying, BIAB cannot do that for modern music without additional work to, as you say, move it from a song to a composition. So, I can accept that (it was my original contention in the first place!)

But I also hope they can improve BIAB in this area in the future. In the same way RealStyles exist, they could have RealSets (or some such name) where multiple RealStyles are linked together and made as easy to use as clicking the part marker. Maybe a modern RealSet would include a pure acoustic set of RealTracks for V1, add in big drum loop for chorus, bring in some huge bass and more drums and drop out the acoustic for V2 and second chorus. I dunno how that would work out and it might end up being too specific but it would be an interesting direction for those of us who have less time to "tinker". And before someone says "stop being lazy, ya gotta put in the time", I'd remind them that by using BIAB at all they have already conceded they too are looking for shortcuts! laugh

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#434490 - 10/21/17 09:32 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
cxp Offline
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Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 27
How about something like this:

https://soundcloud.com/cxp-2/style-versatility-demo

This is right out of Band-in-a-Box. Changing the instrumentation on the MIDI based style several times in the track gives the same style a variety of sounds. Basically an EDM style with elements of blues and bluegrass.

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#434491 - 10/21/17 09:35 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: David Snyder]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2071
Just to expand on my last idea regarding RealSets...

Just a slight improvement to the way you can change RealStyles in the middle of a song would be huge I think. So, currently you have to pop up an obscure window and select the style change and it is not really indicated in the song so doing it once is complicated and doing it multiple times would be way too complicated to even attempt.

So, how about making it much easier to change styles on any bar? And then make RealSets where PG's experts group together cool RealStyles that might work together? And give us the option to change/create RealSets in the same way we can change/create RealStyles?

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#434492 - 10/21/17 09:35 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Modern Sound_Very Quick Tutorial [Re: cxp]
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: North Carolina

This is fun.

smile
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Beginners Help - Muting the Melody Notation

Visit our Beginners Forum, and you'll notice our amazing Forum Community helping out new program users!

Like this recent post regarding Muting the Melody Notation: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=458716 - Forum user Matt Finley did a great job of answering the new program user!

Our Beginners Forum really is a great resource for new program users!

Q: When I have entered chords and notation for a song, is it possible to mute the notation and just have the chords playing? This would be helpful for when I just want the chord backing track but want to read the notation.

A: There are several ways to do this. The easiest is probably to use the Mixer window and change the volume slider to zero for the Melody track. Or, hit the Mute icon on the Mixer for the Melody Track.

Another way, with more control rather than all or nothing, is to press F5 at the measure where you want to mute, and select mute or change the volume to zero. Later, press F5 and select Return to Normal, or change the volume back.

Introducing... RealTracks Artists David Wise & Shelly Justice!

For the first time ever Band-in-a-Box® can generate backing vocals with some amazing "oohs" and "aahs" vocal arrangements with RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs! Add male or female parts by renowned Nashville vocalists David Wise and Shelly Justice, and you'll LOVE the results!

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RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs includes a three-part, six-voice arrangement – which you can use all together in your song or individually for more delicate textures! Listen to the demos for RealTracks Set 278 here.

Purchase RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs for just $29 here. It's also included in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows PlusPAK, UltraPAK, and Audiophile Edition.

Learn more about Dave & Shelly when you visit their RealTracks Artist Bio page:
David Wise: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=150
Shelly Justice: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=151

#TechTipTuesday - Band-in-a-Box® Patch Updates

If you're ever experiencing an issue with your Band-in-a-Box program, make sure you have the most recent patch update for your version - this can be done at http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm.

Patch updates are released frequently, and are created by our development team to fix any reported bugs, tweak existing features within the program, update demos and other files as needed, and more!

To find out which version of the program you have, visit Help | About Band-in-a-Box within the program. You will see the full version number listing as:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2018 (512)

The number in parentheses is the build number. As you can see, my Band-in-a-Box is up to date and will continue to stay that way because I've selected "Automatically check for updates every 7 days" within the Help | Check for Updates.... option (you can set the number of days to a different number). This window will also look to see if you're version is up to date, so you don't technically have to visit http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm if you didn't want to!

Once you've installed your patch update (make sure the program is closed when you're doing this), give it another try - if you are still experiencing the same issue you can report it by contacting us directly, or you can post your result to the Forum thread that also announces the patch update, like our recent Band-in-a-Box 2018 Build 512 Update (Feb 15) post.

YouTube Find - How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES

Check out one of EricBlackmonGuitar's latest videos, How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES and you'll hear a great Band-in-a-Box backing track!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=blJPIX-9YbE

...and you'll also learn how to play blues with just a few notes!

A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
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RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
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