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#435794 - 10/29/17 12:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] RT part lower in volime AND back to normal?
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
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I need to have a RT guitar part lower in volume AND to be back to normal (from mute status) in the same bar. I cannot find away to do this, so I was wondering is it even possible?

Thanks

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#435801 - 10/29/17 02:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Pipeline Offline
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Instead of putting the Gain automation on the Combo Master, put it on the RealTrack http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=432803#Post432803
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#435841 - 10/29/17 08:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: Pipeline]
joden Offline
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So yes, as I wrote I guess this isn't possible...not talking about a fade-in or out. Simply dropping the volume of a part as well as bring it back in from mute status.

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#435842 - 10/29/17 09:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Pipeline Offline
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You can do it anyway you like, it does not have to be a fade.
Use a square wave:



Attachments
BB_Square_Wave.jpg


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#435850 - 10/30/17 01:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
John-Luke Offline
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Originally Posted By: joden
I need to have a RT guitar part lower in volume AND to be back to normal (from mute status) in the same bar. I cannot find away to do this, so I was wondering is it even possible?
Thanks


Presently you can't do it.
I have post a request some months ago in that way. See the link below.
Hope we will get it in the 2018 BIAB release because it is really a need to achieve fine arrangements.

F5 settings : Cumulative choices
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#435866 - 10/30/17 04:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Pipeline Offline
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#435868 - 10/30/17 05:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: joden
I need to have a RT guitar part lower in volume AND to be back to normal (from mute status) in the same bar. I cannot find away to do this, so I was wondering is it even possible?

Thanks


Yes. you can do this is Biab.

If you do attempt this, you should generate the RT and freezed it. Then export the frozen track as a WAV file. This gives you an exact duplicate of the RealTrack.

In your case, only two tracks are necessary. Import the saved WAV file into the Audio track. Be sure volume, panning and effects are the same for both tracks. They should be identical.

On the chord chart, split the measure into two, two beat cells.

Be sure when you import the WAV audio that the two tracks are synced. By splitting the measure, you can use F5 to mute track one in cell A of the measure on one track and use F5 to unmute the second track at Cell B of that measure.

Mute all other tracks except the two duplicates, Mute track one at the desired measure and the WAV audio on the second track to begin at the third beat of that measure. If you split the measure into two cells, each two beats, this would be beat one of the 2nd cell. Play the two tracks.

The result should be track one mutes for beat one and two. Track two will begin at beat three on another track and proceed. Track one remains muted so the track plays as if it's a from a single source. Since the audio is the same on both tracks, it will sound out that the original audio RealTrack mutes for beats one/two and picks back up on beat three.

If that accomplishes what you are attempting, render the mix to a WAV file, import that WAV onto the Audio Track and Move the Audio to a Performance Track to replace your original RealTrack file. This bounces your two track mix onto a single audio file and frees up two tracks and makes the mix permanent as a audio performance track.
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#435874 - 10/30/17 05:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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RE: John-Luke 'Cumulative' F5 wish:
"Presently, after a track Mute via F5 key, we can't enable both 'Back to Normal' and 'Change by'.
For example, after a Piano track Mute for 8 bars, we enable the piano again but we want - at the same time - to change the volume by -15, because the melody instrument plays very softly along with the piano.

So, it would be fine that, after a Mute, 'Change by' should mean 'Back to Normal' AND 'Change by'.
OR
Add a command 'Back to normal and Change by'."


I posted John-Luke's remarks here to not interfere with his 'Wishlist' request. His request to modernize the tasks available with the F5 command is no different than wishing to have 8 tracks to record with at a time when only 4 tracks were available and I fully support his Wishlist request.

But I believe that using the above outlined process in this post, you can accomplish enabling 'Back to Normal' and 'Change by' after a track mute and no longer have your compositions lack sophisticated and advanced techniques waiting on an update.

Duplicate a track to multiple audio tracks and process each 'task' on a separate track, mix and render the to audio, import the audio mix to the Audio Track and then move the audio to replace the original RealTrack audio with a Performance Track.

Back in the days of analog audio recorders with limited tracks of 4,8,12,24; this was a very common practice called bouncing tracks. A bounce creates a submix and frees up tracks for additional overdubs.

This is not a work around to me but rather the method to accomplish, within the existing technology, a way to increase the track count beyond the 8 tracks of Biab. I consider Biab to be an 8 track digital recorder the same as a Tascam DP-008 is. 8 physical tracks but with the built in bounce capability allowing a method to overcome that physical limitation. One can easily use this method to create songs solely within Biab of 16 or more tracks with no loss of audio quality.

Which is the same method used years ago when 4 tracks were all that was available for the Beatles to record with... But the Beatles also utilized new technology when it came along. So still supporting your update F5 functions in the Wishlist Forum.


Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/30/17 06:02 AM)
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#435875 - 10/30/17 06:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Guitarhacker Offline
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of course you can do this. It's called volume automation and uses envelopes to make it happen.

I use this all the time in my DAW where I mix and it's perfect.
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#435886 - 10/30/17 07:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: Guitarhacker]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 668
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
of course you can do this. It's called volume automation and uses envelopes to make it happen.

I use this all the time in my DAW where I mix and it's perfect.


Yep, and that is exacly how I do it as well, however I am looking at ways to speed up the production of tunes for live work. IE trying to do it all within BIAB.

Seems this is the only way for the moment so I will continue with it. Hoepfully this is something that will be added to BIAB in the future.

Also thansk to everyone who posted and provided workarounds, as convoluted as they were haha! Still appreciated the input smile

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#435898 - 10/30/17 08:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4523
Loc: South Carolina
I suggest that exporting tracks to a DAW is the work around rather than the method I outlined above.

I interpret PGMusic's inclusion of a Biab feature to easily export tracks to a DAW so that audio and midi can be manipulated in ways Biab is neither designed or intended to work is further evidence of such.

So, I considered joden's original question to ponder if what he needed a specific RealTrack to do could be accomplished from within the Biab program. He seems to confirm this was indeed his question in his response to Guitarhacker when he states, "IE trying to do it all within BIAB."

Performance Tracks and Audio Tracks are both included features of the Biab program. They allow audio to easily be moved around between tracks of the Biab mixer, audio can be imported and exported and Biab program includes effects, panning, and volume changes for these audio tracks. That's not a work around. Biab programmers recognize Biab is not a DAW and subsequently provided other features to allow users easy access to transfer audio and midi back and forth between Biab and a DAW but still included features to allow users to do it all with "Band in a Box" and no outside resources necessary.

My response was to confirm to joden and others that Biab has features included within the program that provides the means to accomplish his task. John-Luke's desired task likewise can utilize these features and methods to accomplish the tasks he listed in another thread. I concluded from their questions they were not aware how Biab allowed these type tasks to be done within the Biab program. Just making everyone aware, it's there if you want to use it.
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#435908 - 10/30/17 10:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: Pipeline]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13525
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline


That's very impressive Pipeline. I like how you've used the combination of Blue Cat's gain control (freeware) as a VST plugin so that the volume envelopes in Piano Roll control BIAB volumes. Clever!



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#435918 - 10/30/17 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13525
Loc: Australia
Another approach would be to create two bars instead of a single bar.

For example, if the bar in question is bar #10, it's in 4/4, and the first half needs the instrument to be silent while the second half of the bar needs to have the instrument present, then try the following...

1. Click on bar 11 and add an extra bar.

2. Use bar settings to set bar #10 to 2 beats.

3. Use bar settings to set bar #12 to 4 beats.

4. Bars #10 and #11 will now be two 2-beat bars that replace the single 4-beat bar. As such, bar #10 bar settings can be set to mute the instrument and bar #11 bar settings can be set to have the instrument's volume back to normal.

NOTE: I've found that when working with 2-beat bars in an overall 4/4 song, it's sometimes necessary to put a chord on beat 3 of the 2-beat bars. This chord won't play but it does sometimes help to align track generation.

Regards,
Noel



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#435927 - 10/30/17 12:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: Noel96]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4523
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Another approach would be to create two bars instead of a single bar.

For example, if the bar in question is bar #10, it's in 4/4, and the first half needs the instrument to be silent while the second half of the bar needs to have the instrument present, then try the following...

1. Click on bar 11 and add an extra bar.

2. Use bar settings to set bar #10 to 2 beats.

3. Use bar settings to set bar #12 to 4 beats.

4. Bars #10 and #11 will now be two 2-beat bars that replace the single 4-beat bar. As such, bar #10 bar settings can be set to mute the instrument and bar #11 bar settings can be set to have the instrument's volume back to normal.

NOTE: I've found that when working with 2-beat bars in an overall 4/4 song, it's sometimes necessary to put a chord on beat 3 of the 2-beat bars. This chord won't play but it does sometimes help to align track generation.

Regards,
Noel




My initial post referenced having to split the measure but I didn't note that as you mention, putting a chord on the 3rd beat. Good point.


Edited by Charlie Fogle (10/30/17 12:12 PM)
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#435933 - 10/30/17 12:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: joden]
joden Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 668
Thanks guys - all very helpful!

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#435936 - 10/30/17 12:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: RT part lower in volime AND back to normal? [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13525
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
My initial post referenced having to split the measure but I didn't note that as you mention, putting a chord on the 3rd beat. Good point.


Hi Charlie,

I didn't read your posts thoroughly. I simply scanned through them quickly and what you had typed didn't register. I could have saved myself 10 minutes of typing had I been more thorough!

Oh well...

Hope today's a great one for you,
Noel
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