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Well, that's what it sounds like anyway. I decided to get creative and installed a few free VSTs in my VST directory today. And I managed to dress up a couple of my songs so that they were sounding pretty cool. But then I loaded another song in which I'd just used the standard MS Wavetable stuff, and the VSTs had bled over into it, making a terrific mess of things. I remembered I had changed the default VST from Coyote over to one of the new ones, so I went back into preferences/MIDI drivers and changed it back. Well that took care of the strange sounding "regular" songs. But now when I go to play the songs that I've dressed up with the new VSTs, it's just s swirling whining bunch of mess. The drums, which are Real Drums are the only part that haven't been affected by it.
I just now went back into one of the songs and straightened out the mess so that it sounded decent again with the new VSTs. I re-saved the song, using BiaB's "Save Special" option -- figuring it couldn't hurt. Then I immediately called up the saved file. Well, it was better. Now only two instruments are out of place. They're forgetting the voices I assigned to them and selecting something else. So I reset these two instruments again, re-saved the file, then called it back up. Same thing. The two instruments won't remember the voices I selected for them. But the other two instruments in this song are doing fine. Oh, and just to make things really weird -- one of the instruments that forgets its setting shares the same VST with another instrument that doesn't forget its setting. The other instrument that forgets its setting is using another VST all by itself.
SO I went and saved the banks. A saved bank file for each instrument. I also saved the presets for the helluvit. When I called the file up again, those two instruments had reverted to the same two incorrect selections, but when I loaded the saved bank files, the settings were restored. Well, they were until I started up the tune. One instrument played the wrong voice for a split second then switched to the correct one. But the other instrument insisted on staying with the incorrect voice. So I loaded the bank again while the song was running, and this time it took. Finally! Am I going to have to go through this every time I use a VST?
So anyway, while all this was going on, I was reading up on the Help file on VSTs. Pretty straightforward stuff. One thing it mentioned was Forcing a MIDI channel. I'd just left that selection alone, but I figured I'd better do it, so I forced each plugin to a certain channel . . . hrm -- is it possible to "force" a plug-in to more than one channel? Apparently so. I'm listening to the problem tune right now and the two instruments that share that VST are behaving normally . . . for now.
So, what's the secret to getting the VSTs to remember how I've set them so that when I call the file up in the future it will sound the way it's supposed to? Is saving bank files the only way to do this?
Okay, well I have another problem tune with VSTs that have forgotten their settings that I need to try and straighten out. Stay tuned and wish me luck.
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that's just one of the reasons I don't use the "free" vst's anymore.
I've had all sorts of troubles and problems over the years from the free stuff. Some of those things I swear must have viruses or something in them. I've had to remove and fix my system after playing around trying to get them to work. It's likely that there was no malicious code but just poorly written code and that's almost as bad as malicious code.
Yeah.... no thanks on the so-called free stuff.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Fortunately, I don't have any misbehaving VSTs. Just forgetful ones. Two of 'em so far. Thing is, the sounds they produce are very nice, so for now I'm willing to put up with the hassle of having to re-input the correct voices each time I load a file that uses them.
I can't beat 'em up too bad, though. Cuz I'm having trouble with BiaB forgetting basic MIDI instruments, and/or refusing to change a voice from a wrong one to what I want. Two instances of the latter so far, and in both cases, BiaB is stuck on acoustic piano. It's like my system is suffering from early onset of Alzheimer's. With regards to the instruments whose voices have changed, that's kinda weird. I've noticed that it will straighten up and start remembering the correct voices again after a certain voice is called for in the music. And that voice is 12: Vibes. For some strange reason, Vibes resets my system and it starts to behave again for a while. I've paid attention to when it begins to deviate again and what the situation was when it happened. So far, I haven't found any commonality when this occurs.
Let me ask you because I have no idea where to begin. Which VSTs that you've purchased do you prefer and use often, and in what sort of context (style-wise, that is) do you use them?
Last edited by cooltouch; 11/13/17 08:04 AM.
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HI Coolsoft
If you know all this please forgive me but just my thoughts.
In BIAB you can chose a default VSTI say coyote wave table
Or another of your choice. This needs to be GM compatible to play the default midi style parts.
BIAB only has only one slot for software Synths the top one .
However you may use a different Softsynth on each track.
To do this, select a track in the mixer chose your VSTI synth for that track (you need to click on plugins) to do this. Then choose its voice
You can do this for any style part or melody / soloist part
Any tracks you don’t change continue to use the default synth that you set up
You can even set a synth /voice for your thru track if you don’t want the default piano
A good way of checking what is on each track in the mixer select the plug in tab
When you save the song save special (save song with patches and harmony)
When you load the song back you will probably se it load the individual synths to the tracks
I have just done this and have a SGU with:
Bass: fretless bass from the default Softsynth
Piano: From Kontakt
Drums: Standard Kit from default Softsynth
Vibes: Coyote Wave Table
Strings: default Softsynth
No melody or solo
Thru: High bank Electric piano 2 from default Softsynth
MY DEFAULT SOFTSYNTH is set to MY XG Lite VSTI using pat file for any high banks
Saved as above when called back all synths and patches are correct and working.
This works for me hope it is some help.
PS another gotcha!
When you reload the saved file you will have to briefly run the transport for the mixer info to populate from the loaded song .
Have Fun
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 11/14/17 02:59 AM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Presumably you are all talking about VST Instruments as opposed to VST Effects? VSTs cover a wide range DAW plugins so it is usual to call the synths VSTi.
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Presumably you are all talking about VST Instruments as opposed to VST Effects? VSTs cover a wide range DAW plugins so it is usual to call the synths VSTi. Yes indeed I have a bad habit of calling the instruments VSI . I will edit my post . Always best to use the correct terms Thanks  Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Thanks for the response, Mike. Yes, I'm aware of everything you pointed out. And I do frequently have multiple VSTis active in one piece of music.
I have concluded that this is just a "feature" of these two VSTs -- they don't recall the settings that I've saved, and yes, now I always "save special." But as I mentioned above, I've just gotten used to going back and plugging back in the preferred patch.
What bugs me much more is I have one last tune in which the Melody is stuck on acoustic piano. I've even tried loading VSTs to see if they'll unstick it, but nope. I've tried everything I know to do, short of deleting the melody track and starting over. Not gonna happen cuz I like what I have. Aggravating, but it could be worse, I suppose. It could have gotten stuck on shakuhachi or something.
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HI Coolsoft
There is not a voice change registered in the first bar of the song by any chance?
In bar settings F5
Or you could always put one in there for the voice you do want maybe.
Just a thought.
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Hey Mike, thanks for the response. I did the F5 thing and there were no instrument changes. So I did as you suggested and inputted a change for the instrument I wanted. Still stuck on piano.
I opened up a chat window and discussed this and the computer's forgetfulness and stumped the tech I chatted with. He recommended I call later when the senior tech was there (he was out to lunch). But I forgot. So I'll call tomorrow. At one point he mentioned something about the possibility of a re-install. Geez, I wonder where I put that drive that BiaB came on . . . ? I'm just a tad disorganized, but I usually know where everything is in my apparent disorganization. Guess I should look for it before I call.
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... but I usually know where everything is in my apparent disorganization.
I resemble that 
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HI coolsoft
Mmm oh dear, it is beginning to sound as if some other track is trying to share the Melody track’s channel (or what ever track we are talking about ) melody is on ch4
Best view of all this is in the OPTIONS /Preferences /Channels screen.
Look for any track trying to use the same ch number
The other thing about midi is as the first patch in midi is
MSB 0 LSB 0
VOICE/PATCH 0 = piano, this is what you get by default if the track doesn’t get sent any other . or if the midi playing application or instrument doesn’t recognise the Bank change method or MSB /LSB sent . most will fall thru to 0- 0-0
The most normal bank change method is
Controller 0 MSB Controller 32 LSB followed by the program change no
Strange thing about your case is that it does understand the patch you want to use when you send it on the fly just not remember it on save.
One more thought with ch nos the last instance sent from any track will be the one in force for all tracks that share that ch no.
At file loading the tracks are read in order lowest to highest.
So if track 4 used ch4 and for some reason the soloist track also used ch4 then the solist setting would override the melody setting for ch 4
This is all much easier to see in a Daw where you can see the track numbers as well as their allocated channel numbers,
Keep smiling
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 11/15/17 05:39 AM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Mike, thanks for the mini MIDI lesson. Good to know stuff, but it doesn't help me much. I've got a busy schedule today, but I'm gonna try to find a solid block of time where I can sit down in front of my computer when I call PG and run things by them.
Oh, by the way, you know that one tune that is stuck on acoustic piano? I transferred it over to my laptop, which has BiaB, and guess what -- it's stuck on acoustic piano with my laptop also. Now what this tells me is that, either both systems are getting hung up on the same identical issue, or the problem lies with the MIDI file itself. Personally I'm leaning toward the file being the culprit since this is the only tune I have right now in which an instrument won't let go of its patch for another. And I think the fact that it is stuck on acoustic piano is somehow significant, since this is voice #1, the default voice.
Last edited by cooltouch; 11/15/17 08:11 AM.
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Hi Cooltouch
Are you saying that this song is from a midi file if so that opens up allsorts of possibilities, I had assumed up to now we were talking about a song as in a biab song created from a style and saved and reopened in the native biab format of sgu, or mgu if it had melody. if it has been exported as midi or contains an imported midi that’s something else.
Let us know how you get on
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 11/15/17 10:41 AM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Hey Mike, sorry for the confusion. The file in question is a BiaB song file, not a MIDI file. I guess it's a *.mgu since it has a melody. The file contains four real track instruments and one MIDI instrument. I's the lone MIDI instrument that is stuck on acoustic piano. I don't consider it significant that it is a single MIDI instrument being grouped with a bunch of real tracks, since I have several other song files that are similarly set up.
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HI again Michael
Just for fun with the offending song change the synth for that track to the simple coyote wave table and choice a basic voice .
I have had some problems when using certain vsti with the 4 substyle,styles, the drum track seems to forget it is on ch 10 and reverts to piano for standard drum kit.
Replacing just the drum track synth with the coyote wt, all is fine and the drums play as they should. I will start a thread on this later.
I know this wont help you get the voice you really want, but would be interested if it works on your stuck piano /? Track
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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You may have already tried this, but I would open the MGU file in BIAB. Then go to the Notation Screen and click on the melody track. Then click on the "#" button to bring up the MIDI event list and make sure the melody track is selected. Look through the event list and make sure there is no embedded patch change on the track (this can happen with an imported MIDI track, for example). Then delete the patch change. Look through the entire event list, as sometimes it can happen in multiple places. Go to the mixer and assign the instrument you want and see if the "piano" is gone.
Just a thought.
(I'm posting this from memory, so it may not be exactly those steps, but close).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Hey Mike, I've already tried using Coyote with the hopes of getting things unstuck. Made no difference. I've even tried other VSTs, still no joy.
John, thanks for the idea. I hadn't thought to look at the event list yet. Guess I should have. Well, I called it up for the melody. First command is an MSB Bank Select, then LSB Bank Select, then the command to select a Jazz Guitar patch. Only stuff after those three commands are notes all the way through the rest of the song. So, good idea, but nothing there.
I've been meaning to, but been busy the past couple of days, but I'm gonna call PGM about this, toss it into their lap and see if they can figure out what's going on. Between this one stuck voice and the others that keep changing to something else every time the song cycles, well I'm used to it, but it's getting old. I want my BiaB to work as it's supposed to, not as it wants to.
Last edited by cooltouch; 11/17/17 04:57 AM.
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Well, I had a long and mostly productive talk with the senior tech guy at PG -- I didn't catch his name, but I will next time.
We were able to get to the bottom of the reason why my instruments kept changing, and it was due to two main issues.
Apparently if you ever select a Hi-Q MIDI patch plug-in, BiaB remembers this and keeps trying to set you up with it, even when you don't ask for it. Many of my tunes had this set for the Melody. You can select the Hi-Q MIDI patch plug-in up there at the top of the MIDI listing and it opens a Window of them, but the very top selection is "No Preset wanted (Remove/Clear any current preset)." If you select that, then the Hi-Q business disappears and you're back to your basic MIDI voice. Or at least I am.
The other issue is where I would see, in the Notation window -- usually at the beginning of the piece, but not always, where you have like 1a Nylon String Guitar, for example. And then as soon as I'd hit play, Nylon String would change to something else -- and so would the voice. Turns out there was stuff in the event list after all causing this. I've found that anything in the list besides just the note data can foul things up, so I removed it. Even if it were referring to the correct instrument. Then the program must pick up the info from the instrument shown in the Mixer.
I did manage to stump him regarding one thing, though. That dang file stuck on acoustic piano. I emailed him the file and it's stuck on acoustic piano with him too. He doesn't know what's causing it. I was going through my song files again today, getting rid of all the references to Hi-Q and any instances of bad data in the event lists, and I ran across another file in which the melody is stuck on acoustic piano. I'm gonna email that one to him tomorrow. I also ran into another file that switches patch names after I hit play, but there's nothing in the event list indicating it and no reference to the Hi-Q stuff. That's a puzzler. I'm gonna send him a copy of that file too.
On balance, though, it was a productive day. Here's a tip for you that you might already know, but in case you don't I'll pass it along. Ever wanted to look at or edit the event list for an instrument other than the Melody or Soloist? (Those are the only two whose event lists can be viewed) Well, there's a command under Edit/Copy Special called Copy Move Tracks. Click on this and you get a small popup that has a bunch of stuff checked that you can ignore. At the top of the popup you can select the track whose event list you want to view and at the bottom of the popup you can choose whether to copy it or move it. Then you indicate where you want to move it. Well, I dunno about you, but with me, my solo track is vacant probably 98% of the time, so I can move the data to that track, and then I can call up the event list from the solo track, edit it, then move it back to the instrument it came from. Yeah, sure, you can do this in RB, but it's nice to know that you can do it in BiaB as well.
I'm gonna give him a call tomorrow and bug him some more about these other two songs I found.
Last edited by cooltouch; 11/18/17 05:39 AM.
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Hi Michael
Well that’s good news and one for the note book (the HQ remove clear current preset thing)
Mind you the is a set no option on most of the pull down menus without the remove clear add on but normally they are restricted to no patch change etc.
Still onwards and upwards
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 11/18/17 01:53 PM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Mike, just to be clear, you're not removing realtracks when you get rid of the HQ. Those HQ things are the "super midis" or whatever it is BiaB calls them. And they're always associated with a VXT or DX.
I found out today that PG is closed on the weekends. Good for them. I'll have to wait until Monday to bug him about those two files.
Last edited by cooltouch; 11/18/17 06:10 PM.
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,590
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Jan 19th, 2020
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