You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#438261 - 11/16/17 04:33 AM [Beginners Forum] Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?

Top
#438299 - 11/16/17 09:16 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8388
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Could you give us some more information on what Real Tracks and Style you are using?

Also, what version of BiaB?

That would assist to check further.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#438337 - 11/16/17 11:33 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?


Yes, I have experienced something similar what you describe.

Try this...

To get the Realtrack back on track, put a chord on beat 3 in the cell that you've set as 2 beats. This chord doesn't play (so it doesn't matter what it is), but it helps realign the Realtrack generation.

If you have BIAB 2017, the chord on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar will be gray to show that it is inactive. This is the beat to use.

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#438440 - 11/17/17 04:19 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: VideoTrack]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Could you give us some more information on what Real Tracks and Style you are using?

Also, what version of BiaB?

That would assist to check further.


I'm running 2017 BIAB on a MacBook Pro. I use "_BG_Band" a lot and swap in "_BG_BDFS" (fiddle), "_BG_BDGS" (guitar), and "BG_BDMS" (mandolin) when I want a soloist.

Top
#438451 - 11/17/17 05:13 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Bluegrass employs a lot of half (two-beat) measures to alter the rhythmic feel of a song. Yet, when I program those measures in, they seems to confuse whatever RealTracks set I'm using. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way around it?


Yes, I have experienced something similar what you describe.

Try this...

To get the Realtrack back on track, put a chord on beat 3 in the cell that you've set as 2 beats. This chord doesn't play (so it doesn't matter what it is), but it helps realign the Realtrack generation.

If you have BIAB 2017, the chord on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar will be gray to show that it is inactive. This is the beat to use.

Regards,
Noel




Sorry, but this doesn't work. I get two beats of silence, then the RealTrack musicians are two beats ahead of the actual chord change.

Top
#438453 - 11/17/17 05:27 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
If anyone is willing to try this, here's a simple experiment. Use _BG_BAND.STY as the style. Key = G; Tempo = 130; # bars = 9.

1) G
2) C
3) G
4) D
5) G
6) C
7) G D
8) G
9) G

Bar 9 is set to 2 beats using the Bar Settings feature. Everything else is standard 4 beats/bar.

When I do this, I get a pause during playback at the end of the chorus, and the instruments are out of alignment with the chords after that.

Top
#438455 - 11/17/17 05:36 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
If anyone is willing to try this, here's a simple experiment. Use _BG_BAND.STY as the style. Key = G; Tempo = 130; # bars = 9.

1) G
2) C
3) G
4) D
5) G
6) C
7) G D
8) G
9) G

Bar 9 is set to 2 beats using the Bar Settings feature. Everything else is standard 4 beats/bar.

When I do this, I get a pause during playback at the end of the chorus, and the instruments are out of alignment with the chords after that.


Thanks for this.

After setting bar 9 to 2 beats, did you set bar 10 back to 4 beats?

Also... after entering chords on beat 3 in a 2-beat bar, all tracks need to be unfrozen and the song regenerated for the chord(s) to take effect.

Lastly, I've put your above chord progression together and set bar 9 as 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats. I then added an Eb chord on beat 3 of bar 9. After generating the song, it played fine for me (BIAB 2017 build 470).

When you get a chance, can you try the chordsheet that I put together? You can download it from the link below. I'm interested in knowing if it works for you.

Test SGU file with 2/4 in bar 9

Regards,
Noel

P.S. I notice that bar 9 is the last bar of your song. Do you have multiple choruses by any chance?



_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#439300 - 11/21/17 01:17 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1192
Hi Slick Salmon,

Time signature changes when using RealTracks have been doing this in the Mac version for a while.

We don't have an immediate fix for you (sorry), but I'll check to make sure the development team is aware of the issue.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Top
#439333 - 11/21/17 03:07 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Noel96, your file works perfectly. When I do it myself as a repeating 9 bar chorus with a 2-beat measure in bar 9, the problem persists regardless of whether I set bar 1 to 4 beats or not. However, if I do the tune as a continuous 18 bar chorus, setting bar 9 to 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats, everything works perfectly. Apparently, the program gets confused when the 2 beat bar is the last measure of a chorus, but it doesn't mind if an internal bar is 2 beats. This is going to be tricky to program, since bluegrass routinely employs 2 beat measures at the end of a verse.

Top
#439345 - 11/21/17 04:03 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1192
Hi Slick Salmon,

If Noel made the test song with the Windows version, it will likely play fine on a Mac. When we tested this bug, we found that the difficulty generating RealTracks with time signature changes only came up if the song was created with the Mac version.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Top
#439400 - 11/21/17 09:25 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
Noel96, your file works perfectly. When I do it myself as a repeating 9 bar chorus with a 2-beat measure in bar 9, the problem persists regardless of whether I set bar 1 to 4 beats or not. However, if I do the tune as a continuous 18 bar chorus, setting bar 9 to 2 beats and bar 10 back to 4 beats, everything works perfectly. Apparently, the program gets confused when the 2 beat bar is the last measure of a chorus, but it doesn't mind if an internal bar is 2 beats. This is going to be tricky to program, since bluegrass routinely employs 2 beat measures at the end of a verse.



I'm glad to read it worked.

If your song is less than 255 bars long, why not set it out as a linear progression rather than using repeats or multiple choruses. That's what I always do. I like the control that it gives me to add part markers where I like.

If you want to use multple choruses, though...

.... have you tried setting (say) bars 1 to 4 as the introduction and then have the song repeat using bars 5 - 14. I've done that in the songfile that you can download from the link below. See how it goes. Since the song repeats from bar 5, I've set that to 4 beats.

Test file (2) - with intro

Regards,
Noel



_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#440187 - 11/24/17 06:48 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Noel96]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Noel -- I wasn't able to play your second file, because it crashed my program. I don't know why, since your first file ran just fine. Given Kent's comment, I'm becoming increasingly convinced the BIAB is not happy running on a Mac. Nonetheless, the structure you used with the four intro bars is one I use all the time, so I'm familiar with it.

As for laying out tunes as one long chorus rather than repeating choruses, I just don't know the correct approach. The program seemingly wants you to use repeating choruses and provides a wide assortment of tools (eg., jumps, sections, first/ second endings, etc) that make traditional composition possible. It certainly make printing chord sheets a lot easier. On the other hand, the way the program manages soloists makes such a layout challenging. I haven't landed on a comfortable approach.

Top
#442725 - 12/05/17 06:21 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Kent - PG Music]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: Kent - PG Music
Hi Slick Salmon,

If Noel made the test song with the Windows version, it will likely play fine on a Mac. When we tested this bug, we found that the difficulty generating RealTracks with time signature changes only came up if the song was created with the Mac version.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music


Just for clarification, Kent is correct. The fix that Noel provided initially appeared to work, but doesn't reliably do so. The Mac version of BIAB is unable to handle time signature changes with RealTracks. Frankly, without this ability, the utility of this program for me is significantly compromised. I'm going to have to switch to a PC version.

Top
#442774 - 12/05/17 09:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Slick Salmon
As for laying out tunes as one long chorus rather than repeating choruses, I just don't know the correct approach. The program seemingly wants you to use repeating choruses and provides a wide assortment of tools (eg., jumps, sections, first/ second endings, etc) that make traditional composition possible. It certainly make printing chord sheets a lot easier. On the other hand, the way the program manages soloists makes such a layout challenging. I haven't landed on a comfortable approach.


To lay out a song a single chorus is just a matter of (a) setting the number of choruses to '1' and (b) manually adding part markers to define the various sections of a song.

Part markers are obtained by clicking on bar numbers. The first click will put a blue box around the bar number, the second click changes the box to green and the third click removes the part marker.

  • Blue part markers tell BIAB to create a backing that is simpler and with less energy. These are usually well suited to verses.

  • Green part markers tell BIAB to create a backing that has more rhythmical and performance energy. I use these for choruses.

To see these in action, simply open up one of your songs that uses multiple choruses (by 'chorus' I mean 'once through the entire song') and then go to "Edit | Song Form Unfold" and the song will be turned into a single chorus song, 'once through' format. This is linear format.

Quote:
EXAMPLE SONG

Let's say the below is the song that I want to generate.

1. Time signature: 4/4

2. Key signature; C

3. Intro: 4 bars

4. Verse 1: 8 bars

5. Chorus: 8 bars with 2 beat bar following the 8th bar (i.e. in 9th bar)

6. Verse 2: 8 bars

7. Chorus: 8 bars with 2 beat bar following the 8th bar (i.e. in 9th bar)

8. Repeat Chorus


I'd set the "number of choruses" to '1' and then layout the song as shown in the following SGU file.

link to example song

Given that my original files with the bar changes worked for you, this one should work, too. The Eb chords are on non-playing positions in the 2-beat bar. They should just help to re-align the Realtracks for the change back to 4-beats in the following bar.

Let us know how you go.

All the best,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#442814 - 12/05/17 11:43 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Slick Salmon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 41
Thanks for sticking with this Noel, but laying out tunes as one long chorus isn't helping. I got it to work once, but haven't been successful after that. Kent is saying that it's a fundamental problem with the Mac version of BIAB, and I'm inclined to believe him. I'm working with customer support to try to transfer all my work to a PC. I'd rather work on a Mac, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't know what else to do. It's either that or abandon the program altogether.

Top
#442918 - 12/05/17 08:47 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Bluegrass half measures with RealTracks [Re: Slick Salmon]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Just one very last thought...

Rather than use my file, have you tried creating your own by starting with a brand new, blank chordsheet.

To do this....

1. Select "File | New". (Don't simply delete the chords on an existing chord sheet. It's important to create a brand new, blank one.

2. Now select a style, tempo.

3. Set number of choruses to 1.

4. Add a couple of 2-beat bar mid-sheet.

5. On beat three of the 2-beat bar, put in some chord (it won't play).

6. Make the subsequent bar 4 beats.

7. Generate and play.

Does that bring any joy?

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top


Moderator:  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 
PG Music News
#TBT Band-in-a-Box® 2017 Review - Software for Learning Saxophone

McGill Music Sax School posted a video review of Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows last year, stating "I love using software to help learn saxophone. One of my favourite programs is Band-in-a-Box. It's a really powerful tool for quickly making backing tracks I can use for lessons, or my own practice."

Check it out! www.pgmusic.com/?vid=2AgfV7emdLQ

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - Importing MIDI Files

Did you know that Standard MIDI files can be read in to the Melodist or Soloist track within Band-in-a-Box? You can use all of the MIDI File, or select channels or a specific range of bars, using these steps:
1. Melody | Import Melody from MIDI File to select a MIDI file from disk using the file dialog.
2. Melody | Import Melody from Clipboard - when the MIDI data is already copied from another program to the
clipboard.

A new window will open, asking for additional criteria - which channels, # of bars to offset..., # of bars to import, include lyrics, include patch changes - and more! Head to our online manual Chapter 10: Working with MIDI to learn more!

YouTube Find - Your First 15 Minutes with Band-in-a-Box

Woody Piano Shack recently got their hands on Band-in-a-Box after a long time without the program - and they're thrilled!!

Check out this video they've shared to their YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/9dxSfwjBvG0

Thanks Woody Piano Shack!

National Dictionary Day - Guitar & Piano Chord Dictionaries

Today is National Dictionary Day!

We offer 2 dictionaries for just $19 each: the Guitar Chord Dictionary & the Piano Chord Dictionary!

Each of these programs are easy to use! Simply choose a root note, select the chord you want to learn, and the Dictionary will play and display the chord!

An Essential Tool for any Musician!

User Tip - Band-in-a-Box® to Reaper: The Basics

Forum user DeaconBlues09 has created a video to demonstrate how easy the process is for them to streamline their workflow with DAWs, particularly Reaper - check it out: click here to watch.

Join the forum discussion.

Train Your Brain with Band-in-a-Box®

National Train Your Brain Day is October 13th!

Open your Band-in-a-Box® program, and you'll find the [Practice] button in the toolbar - it's a GREAT resource!
Minimized your toolbar? Head to Window | Practice Window or ALT SHIFT L to access

In this window, you'll find many options to help you practice, including Ear Training games, access to the Chord Builder and Chord Subs, some helpful tools within the Playalong Features menu, and more!

Train Your Brain with Band-in-a-Box® today!

Band-in-a-Box Patch Updates - #TechTuesday

Visit our Patches & Updates page, and you will see that with every version released, there are 2+ patch updates applied to that version.

Patch updates are important, and should definitely be installed to your BB folder. They can add new features, update the help resources of the program, fix bugs reported by users, and make your entire Band-in-a-Box experience run smoothly!

Band-in-a-Box update options can be adjusted within the program too - within Band-in-a-Box for Mac, head to Band-in-a-Box | Check for Updates | and then you can select to automatically check for updates by however many days you choose!

Forum Stats
28088 Members
57 Forums
54477 Topics
450526 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
suxixi, tjohnson1800, RickyWonder, M.Raz, omicloud

28088 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Noel96 201
Matt Finley 143
Janice & Bud 137
Will Josef 134
Tangmo 134
David Snyder 131
floyd jane 117
MarioD 107
Deryk - PG Music 103
beatmaster 102
Today's Birthdays
GuernseyCove, tzee68