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#439708 - 11/22/17 07:23 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7395
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I’ll tell the Tracktion story to possibly give the Cakewalk owners some hope.

Tracktion was developed primarily by one developer through version 2 or so. Then Mackie bought it and bundled a pile of software with it, acted like they would push the software which they did for a short time then abandoned all development. Panic ensued in the rather small user base. Software went dark for several years. Original developer reappeared with a new team and it came back to life and is now at what amounts to version 8. It’s still my fave DAW and has led PRo Tools in some features by years. Still very inexpensive relatively speaking. Still confusing to people that can’t use a DAW without a fake mixing board on screen.

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#439754 - 11/22/17 10:32 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 222
Loc: Houston, Texas
I read this news with some distress, being a Cakewalk user since the days of Pro Audio 8 (Win98 days) and I've played around with other Cakewalk products that would come bundled with sound cards and the like reaching all the way back to the good ol' DOS days.

There's one primary reason why I've stuck with Cakewalk all these years and it is because they've always included a Staff View in their products. I think on the staff when I write music. It's a big reason why I've stuck with BiaB for almost 20 years. A staff view. Pro Tools (ptui!) does not include a staff view in its product. So it is useless to me. Yes, AVID is the current publisher now for Sibelius, but Sibelius is more like pretty-looking music publishing software than software meant to get real sounds from. And it doesn't fit well with PT anyway.

I guess I'll continue to use Sonar until the bitter end. If I have to maintain an antiquated system just to keep Sonar going, I'll do so. Hopefully somebody will realize Gibson's folly and rescue Cakewalk from its predicament. What about an employee buy-out option? That's worked in other industries. It might in this case too.


Edited by cooltouch (11/22/17 10:33 PM)
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#439811 - 11/23/17 05:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
beatmaster Online   happy
Journeyman

Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 377
matt

To the poster who said the BIAB files sound better in another DAW besides SONAR, well, no. There is something else at work.

Hi Matt what do you mean by this, As i have used Cakewalk way back to midi only.

I am giving my honest opinion I was on mixcraft last night again and it is awesome what you get included for a daw .

And the special price means I'm looking at the Cakewalk scenario as luck.

Made me try another daw.

As the meerkat says simple.
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#439823 - 11/23/17 06:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17325
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Hi beatmaster. I’m not disputing your good results but I would argue it’s not because you are playing .WAV files in another DAW. Any DAW playing .WAV files should sound exactly the same. In fact, if they don’t sound the same, something is very wrong.

So, since it sounds better to you in Mixcraft, there is another reason. It could be a difference in the default panning law, since SONAR has several choices. More likely you have some form of processing plugin set on in Mixcraft. Take a look for that. Or, on the flip side, maybe you had some plugin in SONAR that wasn’t helping.

Mixcraft is one of the few DAWs I haven’t used, so I’m glad you like it. Everyone has to choose a DAW based on features and user interface/workflow method. But not based on sound. Does that help?
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#439833 - 11/23/17 07:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4400
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Although I'm not a Cakewalk fan, I'm sad about this and I feel for you.

I still have an XP computer so that I can use Master Tracks Pro.

Microsoft bought Passport (the originators) so it could use its technology in Power Point. They sold the rights to Encore (notation) and MTPro (sequencer) to G-Vox.

G-Vox changed very little, they added long file names, more modern looking dialog boxes but introduced a number of bugs in it. All but a couple were eventually fixed.

They continued to develop Encore but did nothing for MTPro. Eventually one of the people in G-Vox bought MTPro and renamed his new company Passport with the intention of revising MTPro. That never happened.

I like MTPro because there is no Audio and thus a simpler interface with no sub or sub-sub menus. It's much faster to use and it also loads and saves fast so I spend more time on the musical instrument and less time on the computer.

Plus it's very powerful and has groove filters.

Then when I'm all done with the MIDI, if I want to add audio, I'll open the MIDI file in a DAW.

My oldest version of MTPro doesn't work in Win10 and it's the bug free version. The newest version barely works in Win10, certain features just don't work right, thus the XP computer.

MTPro started on the Motorola Mac and was upgraded to Intel/OSX - and no longer works. It was ported to the Atari first and then Windows. Now it's an orphan.

Cakewalk just got orphaned too. At least Cakewalk works on Win10 so you should be able to use it for a decade or more without worries.

Notes
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#440192 - 11/24/17 07:01 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Deryk - PG Music Online   content
PG Music Staff

Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 1251
I'm legitimately shocked to learn about this. While I'm not a Cakewalk enthusiast myself, clearly they have an extremely devoted user-base. This is will sadly be a big loss to many frown
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#440209 - 11/24/17 07:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17325
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Some good news:

Cakewalk just posted that, if the servers are shut down, they would send the authorization codes to all registered users (so the program doesn’t revert to demo mode, or you can install it on another computer).
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#440224 - 11/24/17 08:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: Matt Finley]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11071
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Some good news:

Cakewalk just posted that, if the servers are shut down, they would send the authorization codes to all registered users (so the program doesn’t revert to demo mode, or you can install it on another computer).


That is very good news. Thanx for sharing.
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#440240 - 11/24/17 10:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: MarioD]
F.M.M. Offline
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Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 1167
yup good news for sure

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#440246 - 11/24/17 10:38 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 222
Loc: Houston, Texas
Yeah, that is good news.

I'm waiting for a Cakewalk announcement where they say they're assuming control of the company once more independent of Gibson and will continue to produce award-winning products.

Hey, if Gibson is just shutting down CW that means it has no value to them. Possibly even negative value. So that means that the Cakewalk personnel should be able to take over without having to pay Gibson a dime. Right?
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#440268 - 11/24/17 12:23 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
David Snyder Online   happy
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 3895
Loc: North Carolina
Well, here is some good news.

If you only had to go to the next to the last inner ring of hell in Mixers Inferno you could go with Pro Tools.

But if you really want to go into the innermost ring where the torture is the most severe, you could be forced to use Ableton Live.

I guess we should all be thankful that while most of our bodies are covered in severe burns, we aren't totally covered in burns.

That's what I have learned from all of this as I strive to be on the optimistic side.
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#440474 - 11/25/17 07:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 5870
Loc: GA USA
And in a galaxy far away there are us Logic Pro X users who at the very least can rest assured Apple will not desert us. Excellent reviews and no copy protection. $199 forever. I’ve had several major upgrades and many minor ones over the five years and they are always free.

Yeah, I know it only runs on a Mac....... smile
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#440485 - 11/25/17 07:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
bobbyt9999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 133
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I've been a Cakewalk user since version 3 and have upgraded every time a new version came out. I'm using Platinum today. I'm sure going to miss it if I ever have to give it up.

However, I'm thinking about learning something new. I bought a new Mackie mixer this past week and it came with a full blown version of Tracktion. This isn't a "Light" or stripped down edition. It's a full version. That being said, it is old - Tracktion 4.

I bought an audio interface 2 weeks ago, but returned it for a swap for the mixer. It came with a light version of Cubase. I had a quick look and really didn't care for it. Now this isn't fair to the software because I really did nothing in it during the 20 minutes I was looking at it.

But seeing as both of them didn't cost me a dime, and the thought that I may have to look for a new DAW further on down the line, this may be a good excuse to start learning something other than Sonar.

I'm not in a panic about losing Sonar. I just think I shouldn't remain being one dimensional.

Bobby
Bobby

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#440497 - 11/25/17 08:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17325
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I've just been sampling demos of several competing DAWs. So far I'm not finding what I need. Haven't looked at Cubase yet.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#440524 - 11/25/17 10:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: Matt Finley]
F.M.M. Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 1167
I'm trying a couple as well i have reason 10 going to try Cubase studio 1 3 is pretty good so far eric

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#440569 - 11/25/17 01:08 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 222
Loc: Houston, Texas
Cubase "Lite" I guess it was came with a piece of hardware I bought. After being put through the ringer just getting my copy validated so I could even look at it, I found it to be rather dry and clinical. And, my memory is not 100% here, but I don't think it has a staff view. Which is enough to kill it for me.
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#440621 - 11/25/17 04:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: cooltouch]
bobbyt9999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 133
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I can feel your pain from trying to get Cubase validated. They sure gave me the runaround when getting my copy authorized.

Bobby

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#440627 - 11/25/17 05:41 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: bobbyt9999]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6505
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
What I see in this thread with a few exceptions is old guys. I am one too. We're not the demographic music companies care about. Sucks I know, one day we're the masters of the universe and the next we're tossed aside like yesterdays laundry, sniff, sniff. Excuse me...

Ok, that's over.

Bottom line is this guys. If CW was making Gibson money this wouldn't have happened.

We all know the music biz has dramatically shifted in the last 20 years and it's accelerating. Don't believe me? Look at the description of one of the HipHop styles. It says "Old School Hip Hop". Old School Hip Hop!? To us it was yesterday and it still sucks as bad now as it did then but in reality it began in the 80's. There are a few hiphop billionaires now. Can anybody in this thread name them? More to the point can anybody in this thread name a few of their greatest hits?

The change is slow and inexorable, we don't notice it because it's going on in the background of our lives sort of like the frog in the pot. The heat is up and that frog doesn't have much time left.

Gibson is hurting all over because guitar sales have been tanking. Modern pop music doesn't use guitars or much keyboards either for that matter. Yes there are exceptions but overall sales are way down. And our "old guy" demographic isn't enough to support these companies any more.

Bob
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#440628 - 11/25/17 05:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Posts: 17325
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Cubase has perhaps the best staff view and MIDI handling of any DAW. I don't know if that includes their 'lite' version, though.

While I have no knowledge of Gibson other than their ownership of Cakewalk (the SONAR company), I know that Gibson stepped in to buy Cakewalk from Roland even when Cakewalk was losing money. Thus, in a way, Gibson gave us more time before Cakewalk would have gone under anyway. My problem is only with how the recent announcement was made.
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#440766 - 11/26/17 11:17 AM [Off-Topic] Re: calkwalk anoucement sad news [Re: F.M.M.]
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 222
Loc: Houston, Texas
Bob, I resemble those remarks!

All too true, I'm afraid. In fact, when I look at a modern pop "star," I see a dancer whose primary task is to look sexy on stage. Music and musicianship are secondary or even tertiary. You know, historically, I've never been much of a fan of Country and Western music. But I find myself gravitating toward it now because musicianship is still on display, for the most part, with C&W performers and their music. I suppose the fact that modern C&W sounds a whole lot more like country rock or even all-out rock has probably helped some in that regard.

Anyway, what I see happening in the music industry is a decline overall in musicianship. It used to be something to make fun of, with boy bands and hip hop and all, but these trends are persisting -- much longer than I ever thought they would.

So I wonder now if the REAL musicians where "music" is being made are not unlike little gnomes hidden away in the dark labyrinths of modern music production facilities, and it is for this select few that full-featured music production software is even being put to use. There's no wonder the industry is hurting. And there's no wonder a company like Gibson is hurting. If it weren't for amateurs and hobbyists who don't mind paying dizzying amounts for their guitars, Gibson would have probably gone belly up years ago.

Take me, for instance. Until a couple years ago, it had been some 45 years since I'd owned a Les Paul (I bought a first year of reissue LP Custom back in 1968. I was sixteen.) I sold in in 1972 -- I always had a love/hate relationship with that guitar: love because of its sound, but hate because of its non-existent frets. I've owned a few Gibsons since then, but never a genuine traditional-looking Les Paul until recently. A couple years ago, I had some spending money burning a hole in my pocket and I was determined to buy a nice LP. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on one at Guitar Center, but of all places I found one that looked like it had never been played in a pawn shop I drop in on occasion, in which I had found various cool items in the past. First thing I noticed when I walked in was an LP Traditional hanging on the wall. I walked out with it for $1300 -- about $700 less than what Guitar Center was asking for a new one.

Me, I usually can't afford Gibson prices, so I have to scrounge for deals on used Gibson gear, which doesn't help Gibson at all. The only new Gibson I bought in recent memory was a Les Paul Special (double cutaway, two P90 single coils) at the now defunct Mars Music some 17 years ago. Yeah, it's a Les Paul, but not a traditional one like the Standards and Customs.

Gibson's prices continue to skyrocket. I just visited their website and they now have a few models with a $12,000 list price. Geez. That's some serious money and I'll bet they don't sell very many of 'em. Sure, Gibson still tries to compete in the cheaper price ranges, but to me their cheaper offerings look like dogs. I'd rather buy a nice Ibanez (I like Ibanez) and get a lot more guitar for the same amount of money. Hey, I can buy an eight-string Ibanez for about $400. That's a heck of a deal, ask me.

So, where does it all end? I dunno. I even have a hard time understanding today's popular music. So I'm definitely not writing it. I reckon I'll just stick with what I know how to do, using the software I know how to use (like BiaB and Sonar) and if folks like it, well great. And if they don't, well we all have our own tastes. I can't please everybody, so I may as well please myself and hope for the best.



Edited by cooltouch (11/26/17 11:21 AM)
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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Build 520 Available!

Band-in-a-Box® Version 2018 for Windows users can download the latest free patch update, Build 250, here.

Summary of changes for Build 520 since 519 (July 17 2018):
Added: Save As style feature has support for MIDI velocity changes if volumes aren’t 90 on mixer when saved.
Added: Support for MIDI velocity changes in styles. Use the Misc-More dialog in StyleMaker to set velocity changes in MIDI styles.
Fixed: [Style Memos etc] button was not visible in the Style Editor -> Misc dialog.
Fixed: Bar lines would not display properly in the Audio Edit window if launching through the menu item "Audio Chord Wizard (Audio Edit)".
Fixed: Hitting the Return key while in the Audio Edit window might trigger Loop Screen mode.
Updated: PDF Manual and Help.

User Blog - Recording and Processing Vocals Using RealBand...

Joanne Cooper's latest blog post is a "start to finish" of how she records and processes vocals for her songs using her three "go-to" programs: RealBand, Melodyne, and Nectar from Izotope (with a little help from Band-in-a-Box...)!

Check out this blog post here.

Video - Using MIDI SuperTracks in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows!

Learn how you can add MIDI SuperTracks to your Band-in-a-Box® song?

Using MIDI SuperTracks in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows!

Video - Using MIDI SuperTracks in Band-in-a-Box® for Mac!

Learn how you can add MIDI SuperTracks to your Band-in-a-Box® song?

Using MIDI SuperTracks in Band-in-a-Box® for Mac!

Musician Brent Mason in the Studio Recording RealTracks!

Before leaving Nashville, Tobin caught up with Brent Mason recording some future RealTracks in the studio.

We can't wait to hear them!

Video - Adding RealTracks to Your Band-in-a-Box® Song

There are 300 RealTracks Sets available (over 2,500 RealTracks!), and here at PG Music we have this to say about them: You'll want to use RealTracks in all of your projects... and you can!

But what if you're not sure how to add them to your Band-in-a-Box® song? We have a video for that! Click here to watch...

Save Notation Window as a Video with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Did you know... Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac allows you to save the Notation Window as a video? What a great way to share your songs with users, and LEARN from the notation as you listen!

From the program manual:
[Save As] | Save as video
-In the Make Notation Video dialog, select a track at the upper left corner. (Note: The dialog title says “Make Chord Sheet Video” until you select a track.)
-You can also set the dimension (width/height) of the video and select the number of frames per second and a specific codec.
-Press the [OK - Render Video] button to start rendering the video. When the video has been created, press the [Show Video File] button.
-You can then double click on the file to watch the rendered video.

Note: A special use of this feature is to combine a Video RealTracks (new with version 2018) with the corresponding notation in a single video. This creates an educational video, which shows the actual performance with notation/tab, playing over your chord progression! To do this, right-click on the Master button or one of the track buttons at the top of the main screen and select Render Video(s) from the menu.

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