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#440758 - 11/26/17 10:40 AM [RealBand] question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ...
QuipRosen Offline
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Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 73
Loc: FL
I changed the volume for part of a measure on one track and stored the resulting file. I reloaded the file later and I can see the boundaries of the previous change as thin vertical lines on the track. There is no UNDO available from the Edit menu, so the change appears to be permanent. Now, if I want to make another change to the same region, and I fail to line up the boundaries exactly the same (yeah, like THAT's gonna happen!) the second change frequently results in a click at a boundary.

Okay. I understand what the vertical lines represent from the previous change. My question is: If I can't do anything with those boundaries after a reload, why are they still in existence? Seems like an annoyance with no benefit.

Thanks.
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#440937 - 11/27/17 06:52 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 355
Hi

If talking a midi track here.

To precisely re edit the volume changes you would be best in event list view for that track, here you will be able to edit the events against the event time line .so you will be spot on .

You could use piano roll view, make sure you are viewing volume controller cntr 7 in the controller pane of the window.

If by chance, you achieved you changes by velocity the same will apply just look for the velocity events instead,
Have fun cool
Mike


Edited by Mike Head (11/27/17 07:03 AM)
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#440945 - 11/27/17 07:24 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: Mike Head]
QuipRosen Offline
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Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 73
Loc: FL
Forgot to mention ... this is an Audio track, not a Midi track.

Also ... it looks to me as though region selection (that is, positioning the vertical-line-cursor and dragging) jumps to beat boundaries at both ends of the selection, which is not what I want. ???
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#440950 - 11/27/17 07:55 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
Mike Head Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 355
HI

Well I have come across this sot of thing in the past when post editing Audio.

My thoughts are to zoom your editing view to a high rate so that your time line is really open,
And make you new edit just a millisecond or so earlier than the original this should then over write the first and avoid clicks.
However don’t overdue the advance as each time you are eating your way back to the previous part of the track that you may not want changed.

Mike


Edited by Mike Head (11/27/17 07:58 AM)
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#440982 - 11/27/17 11:23 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3912
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Look under "Options" then "Resolution". Typically "Resolution" sets how many ticks (a measurement of time) is equal to a midi quarter note. Set resolution to the maximum value of 3840. In addition to changing the midi time resolution, this setting affects how fine audio edits can be. The higher the resolution the more exact your audio edits will be.
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#441162 - 11/28/17 06:11 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5735
This might be a live and learn moment.

I don't use Real Band as my mix DAW. I use Sonar but I'm guessing it's fairly similar. While it's possible to create a volume change in a section of the track.... use some planning.

Set your resolution to a specific value. Measure, half note, quarter, eighth, etc... that way you can go back and redo it using the same resolution. If you simply select a section with the resolution set to the max, you have a very slim chance of guessing where those edit points in and out are located. In many cases, no matter what type of edit you have done, there will be a click at the edit point. Normally, because there's an abrupt event. Starting in the middle of a note as opposed to zero crossing for example. If it appears to be permanent.... you've tried to fix it and can't..... don't worry...there might be a way to resolve it.

I have used this method a few times to save the work spent on a track. Where the click is heard.... zoom in. really far in. down to where the wave form is a line and you can see the click on the line. it's normally only a few cycles and at a high frequency. Highlight the click section of the line only, and apply a MUTE. that section should mute. Now... playback and listen. The click should be muted, the muted section should be so small and so quick you don't even hear it anymore. I use this a lot to clean up a vocal track with all the background noise and lip smacks and such that are part of a mic'd vocal track.

Another way to do this is to use a volume envelope and pull the volume down in the click and right beck up after the click. You can also use the volume envelope to raise or lower the volume change you wanted to undo. You can use cross fades quite effectively to transition between two edits where you bring one up as the other one is brought down. Done right, it's hard to tell there's an edit point there.


It's typical, at least in Sonar, that you lose your "undo" history upon exit. Therefore.....

Be careful in how you do things that you might want to undo in a few days. Anytime you are about to make an edit or delete something, ask yourself how do you plan on getting it back if you realize you need it. That will save you a ton of grief in the future.

For volume control in a track ALWAYS insert volume control envelopes. They get saved with the project and if you need to remix or adjust the volume in a track, it's simple.... you just edit the envelope.

Hope this is useful info for you. Realize that this is all based on Sonar so you will need to figure out how this works in Real Band.


Edited by Guitarhacker (11/28/17 06:13 AM)
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#441739 - 11/30/17 12:04 PM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
What you need to do is to highlight the track and select the "Consolidate Track" command. That should get rid of the little lines and the little tick/pop you hear where they occur. This is a normal part of audio editing in RealBand (and PowerTracks long before it) which "consolidate" fixes immediately.
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#441773 - 11/30/17 03:35 PM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18914
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
As Jim said; the finer your resolution the more exacting your edits can be.
Try to edit at the zero point (where the line crosses the horizontal bar).
This stops clicks that happen from misalignment. Finer the Resolution, the finer you can edit. (However see below for the flip side of it)

Another tip is to make sure your check box for 'Smooth Audio Cuts' is enabled.
Any Cut/Copy/Paste routines then 'fake' the cut to cross at zero at the Start/End point.

Between those two things during the editing process you can eliminate a lot of it to begin with.

You can try 'Consolidate Audio', as mentioned also, but my gut says that will just make the edit marks go away, not the underlying issue. I don't think it smooths cuts, it just writes what you have as one long piece instead of those edited chunks. However it's worth trying as I've been wrong before (and jford has taught me new things before).

FWIW the edited chunks are what is needed for the Undo function. It marks the start/end of various edits. So if you start cutting into a previously edited section the start/end points are going to be off.

Flip Side
If all you use is RealTracks (or something with a strict click), some users like using the Bars window to select sections before editing them; then you know you always have exact measures.
But if you record live audio (bands or live instruments) this may not be effective, as humans are not 'right on' .. but RTs seem to edit as though they are most of the time.
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#441914 - 12/01/17 01:47 PM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10527
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Just to be clear (and everyone does things differently), I do use the "smooth" cuts option, but have found that I still get clicks on playback when there are cuts (and I can definitely see the little line that shows the cut); however, my experience has been that consolidating the track removes the clicks.

Oh, and I've always wondered why would you need anything other than "smooth" audio cuts?

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#441951 - 12/01/17 04:22 PM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18914
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Consolidate is definitely worth trying.
It may help (especially if certain plugins are used on the track).
At very least it lightens the drive load.

I'll experiment more soon. I suspect Consolidate would also 'zero out' any dead spaces which could also help in the end result (like a cut/paste with a gap in it type scenario)

Guess my point is, it is better to figure out how to NOT have it occur in the first place (during the edit) as opposed to fixing later.

I'm surprised that 'Smooth Cuts' hasn't been good to you, seems to help here.
Yes, you'll still see a line, but if you zoom in using the Audio Edit (preferably at 3840 resolution), can you 'see' any misalignment at that edit marker line?

If not, it could be the drive(s) trying to stream and jumping around to disrupt things .. and this can end up being a situation where it happens 'sometimes' but not always.
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#442085 - 12/02/17 10:04 AM [RealBand] Re: question re saving and reloading a SEQ file ... [Re: QuipRosen]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3912
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Mel,

Glad you asked the question as the question has opened an informative and lively discussion. I'm learning a lot. I'm thinking that following some of these suggestions may improve RealBand's stability and make it more resistant to crashing.
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