Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#443299 - 12/07/17 08:50 AM [Off-Topic] Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 650
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Dear PG Music,

Please explain to me why you solely target BIAB for Windows users? Why do us Mac users get the basic features of BIAB, Why do you only make Real Band, Power Tracks, and the iOS app only for Windows users? I love BIAB, but your marketing lacks common sense. If you are going to get both OS users to buy your product, you should make sure that all the version has all the same features and software, at the same time. Again, I love BIAB, but I just wish you could be fair to both parties.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443306 - 12/07/17 09:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 848
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2017, Pro Tools 12.8, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

Top
#443308 - 12/07/17 09:12 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: sslechta]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 650
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: sslechta
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share


So, what? Most of the audio industry uses Macs, and most plugins, DAWs, and virtual instruments cater to both OSs with the same features.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:12 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443325 - 12/07/17 09:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Larry Kehl Online   content
Expert

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1895
Loc: New Mexico
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace

Larry




Edited by Larry Kehl (12/07/17 09:42 AM)
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

Top
#443331 - 12/07/17 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Larry Kehl]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 650
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace



Larry




I understand your point about the whole Apple marketing scheme ever since Steve Jobs died and I don't think it will have an impact on the cost of the PC version, and you have every right to complain about Logic Pro being only for Mac users. If you look at what you get with the Mac version, you would conclude that you would be better off getting a laptop PC and buying BIAB for Windows. What I am asking for is for PG Music to respect both parties.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:56 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443475 - 12/07/17 09:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
dcuny Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1740
Well, BiaB has its roots as a DOS application that became a Windows application.

So the codebase is pretty firmly planted on the PC.

When choosing to create a Mac application, I suspect that PG Music has a choice: port the existing Windows application to a cross-platform library so that Mac version could share a common codebase, or build the Mac port from scratch.

As far as I know, there weren't very many cross-platform libraries that supplied native look and feel and had excellent audio support.

Moving to a cross-platform library would mean potentially replacing solid, working code with bug-ridden new code that at the end of a long effort might not even work well.

I'm guessing that they decided to build the Mac version from scratch.

But when you build a complex computer program, you don't really build everything "from scratch." Instead, you end up relying on third party tools to supply some of the features.

For example, BiaB uses a third party library to handle audio stretching, which is far superior to what they had before.

Unfortunately, not every library available on the PC platform is available on the Mac. So right there, you're not going to have parity for the two programs. You're not going to remove features from the PC just because you don't have it for the Mac, right?

Then comes the question of which version is going to be the reference platform. You generally don't want to have different features in the applications, so you're going to code them on one platform first.

For reasons already mentioned, it makes sense for the PC to be the reference platform.

Now, not every feature that gets coded makes it out the door. Sometimes changes made to the code break other features in unexpected ways. So it makes sense that features wouldn't be ported to the Mac until they were actually demonstrated to work on the PC. Otherwise, it's twice as expensive when you make a mistake and have to abandon something.

Finally, I'm sure that it's expensive to maintain two separate applications. Someone who's intimately familiar with the Windows API is generally not also a Mac specialist. So it's likely that the Mac coding team is smaller than the PC coding team.

I suspect that there are just a lot of things that make it hard to get the Mac version up to the level of the PC.

None of this is any consolation to a Mac user.
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#443479 - 12/07/17 10:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 7244
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
One can make a similar comparison with car models, washing machines, television sets and more. Some manufacturers will have more or different features than other manufacturers.

In addition to the useful dialog from others above, I understand and respect your frustration, but you actually can have all of the features of the PC version if you want. Just buy the PC version.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#443509 - 12/08/17 03:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matcham Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 218
Loc: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
I'm in two minds on the issue. On the one hand, I reckon PG Music is missing an opportunity in not targeting Macs. Macs are ubiquitous in the audio industry. If you want the trickle down effect from celebrity endorsements etc then you should come to the party. As it stands the PC orientation brands BIAB as a hobbyists program.

On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.
_________________________
Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/matcham-caine/sets/originals

Top
#443517 - 12/08/17 05:05 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Matcham]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 11919
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#443521 - 12/08/17 05:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 4918
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Matcham
....On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.


Exactly.

I love BiaB

I love my Mac, iPad and iPhone

I love the amazing power of Logic Pro X and its $199 price with free and frequent updates.

I love Izotope and their world of Mac compatible products.

I love Apple’s cloistered “we’ll take care of you world” including absolutely seamless IOS and MacOS updates.

I often communicate with BiaB Windows users and for my production purposes I don’t feel that I’m lacking. Your results may vary and I apppreciate and understand that.

Cheers, Bud


_________________________
Never grow up...it's a trap.
J&B SoundCloud Page
J&B YouTube Sampler
J&B Website

Top
#443528 - 12/08/17 06:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Noel96]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10258
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#443532 - 12/08/17 06:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4174
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
First of all, although I sell aftermarket styles for BiaB, I have no professional experience with PG Music except for a friendly one, and no 'inside information' so everything here is guesswork.

1) It takes thousands and thousands of hours to write software.

2) If you look at my style/fake business for BiaB and if you look at the average number of people reading the forums, there are 20 BiaB users on PC to 1 on Mac.

3) Therefore for the programmer spending thousands and thousands of hours writing code, for ever one dollar writing Mac code brings in, the PC brings in 20 dollars.

Fortunately style and song data are cross platform, so at Norton Music, I release Mac and PC versions at the same time and they are equal.

But put yourself in PG's shoes.

Say you are on your job and you had a choice at work to work on Project A and Project B. Both projects are time consuming and would take about the same amount of time to complete. Project A pays you a bonus over your regular pay of $1 per hour and Project B pays a bonus of $20 per hour. Which would you take?

The problem with Apple is that they make their products non-compatible with the rest of the computer world. Even in the early days by using screws that needed a patented tool to open the cases so a non-Apple computer tech couldn't even fix them because they controlled to tools.

They use proprietary jacks (like the lightning) that they keep the patent on, and as soon as the patent becomes PD, they will introduce another patented connection.

Why?

Steve Jobs' philosophy. Keep the Apple people from straying to another platform by making the switch either difficult or costly.

Now I can't say whether that is a good business plan or not, because I'm not in their shoes, but it does make things difficult for the cross-platform software author.

Getting paid 20 times more for the same amount of work on the PC is very tempting.

But of course, that leaves an opportunity for another to write exclusively for Mac and take the lower profits because the competition in the Windows arena is also very fierce.

And Apple isn't the only one that does this. I had a minivan that I need because I'm a gigging musician. After about 90,000 miles the transmission oil needed changing. My mechanic explained to me that it needs Mopar oil which costs $85.00 per quart. He said they change the specifications a tiny bit, that doesn't really matter, but if I put anything else into it, it will void the 100,000 mile warranty. The car gave me good service so I paid $85.00 per quart. It was OK, the van lasted about 200,000 miles before I wore it out.

Because of these fairly common business practices, Apple people sometimes have to wait or settle for less in the software arena, but on the other had, they also get exclusives.

And I do freelance recording as 'sax for hire' and every studio I've been in for the past 20 years has had both Mac and PC computers in it. Probably for the same troubles you are going through.

Insights and incites by Notes


Edited by Notes Norton (12/08/17 07:01 AM)
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#443534 - 12/08/17 06:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: MarioD]
MikeK Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2027
Loc: Buford, GA
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.


Make that four. smile
_________________________
Cheers,
Mike

My Music * PC: Avatar FX8366ice AMD FX-8350(4.0GHz) 16GB DDR3 6TB HDD+128GB SSD HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Win 10 64-Bit. AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2018

Top
#443537 - 12/08/17 07:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16232
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
You can run the PC version of BIAB on your Mac with a utility. Peter Gannon does.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#443542 - 12/08/17 07:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4475
Loc: Florida
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 505 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can update their version with the latest patch - Build 505.

This patch can be downloaded here.

Summary of changes for Build 505:

Added: You can now put Section Numbers in your song. Previously you could only use letters A-Z, but now you can use 1-9 as well.
Added:You can now filter styles in the StylePicker for styles that contain Video RealTracks.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error "Procedure entry point MFTEnumEx could not be found in the Dynamic Link Library Mfplat.DLL" while starting up if using Windows Vista.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box would crash with error message "dwmapi.dll cannot be found" while starting up if using Windows XP.
Fixed: The Transcribe feature in the Audio Edit window was not always working.
Fixed: The Windows Audio Devices dialog might show garbage text for names of devices if not running Band-in-a-Box in English.
Fixed: There was no Quality selector in the Render to Audio File dialog if rendering MP3 on Windows 7 or earlier.
Fixed: There were visual artifacts in the leadsheet & notation windows when moving the cursor.
Fixed: Using the Transpose or stretching features in the Audio Edit window might cause an access violation if the audio track is mono.
Improved: Band-in-a-Box will start up faster.
Improved: Importing ABC Notation files has been improved.
Updated: Help file and manuals.
Updated: RealTracks Artist bio's.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#505

New! Video RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

NEW with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows... Video RealTracks Sets!

Video RealTracks allow you to see the RealTracks artist playing that track - you can use them just like any other RealTrack, and you can generate a video which will display the musician playing your song exactly as you hear it. You can also include a chord sheet or notation in the video.
TIP: If you load one of the video RealTracks bands, you will have video RealTracks on 5 tracks, and you can make a video of 1-5 musicians!

We've added Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band to our Free Bonus PAK included in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows packages during our December special.
Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band is included in the 2018 49-PAK, along with 40 Bonus UNRELEASED RealTracks, 22 MIDI SuperTracks, 101 Instrumental Studies, and Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé.

SPECIAL OFFER: During our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Holiday Special, purchase our "Video RealTracks Set 3-6 Special Bundle Offer" to complete your purchase with the remaining Video RealTracks Sets for the low price of just $49! http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Learn more about the new Video RealTracks and see them in action: Video link - "Video RealTracks Sets 1-6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows"

Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)! Listen to all the individual demos here: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.202newrealtracks.htm, or watch our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 202 New RealTracks Overview Video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qDFYZMjrzAI

Get all 202 new RealTracks when you purchase any Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade, on sale until December 31st!

NEW! Xtra Styles PAK 4 - Available for both Windows and Mac!

We've just released Xtra Styles PAK 4 with over 150 new RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and 'Folk and Beyond' styles! These new RealStyles will work with the RealTracks included in any Band-in-a-Box® version 2017 or higher UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition.

To add to the excitement of this release, we're putting all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

Listen to all the demos of these new Xtra Styles here, or check out this video: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=Zl_wr47d2V0

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned with Band-in-a-Box® 2018, and is now built in to the program! Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app that was not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but now the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit Window!

Watch our latest video to learn more: Video link - Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 2 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can download a small (free) patch update for their purchase!

Summary of patch update:
Access violation if clicking on Guitar Window or Big Piano when there isn't any notation window currently open.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_2

Forum Stats
26696 Members
50 Forums
48817 Topics
398965 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
Phil Taylor, Poppins, Mannnolo, sebz77, KGU 2

26697 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Matt Finley 369
VideoTrack 350
jford 194
Noel96 194
PeterGannon 184
Al-David 178
furry 167
Rob4580 137
Russell DeMussel 110
Scott C 107
Today's Birthdays
davidbrown, dbapro11g