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#443299 - 12/07/17 08:50 AM [Off-Topic] Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 703
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Dear PG Music,

Please explain to me why you solely target BIAB for Windows users? Why do us Mac users get the basic features of BIAB, Why do you only make Real Band, Power Tracks, and the iOS app only for Windows users? I love BIAB, but your marketing lacks common sense. If you are going to get both OS users to buy your product, you should make sure that all the version has all the same features and software, at the same time. Again, I love BIAB, but I just wish you could be fair to both parties.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#443306 - 12/07/17 09:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1097
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 2018, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

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#443308 - 12/07/17 09:12 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: sslechta]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 703
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: sslechta
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share


So, what? Most of the audio industry uses Macs, and most plugins, DAWs, and virtual instruments cater to both OSs with the same features.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:12 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#443325 - 12/07/17 09:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Larry Kehl Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2019
Loc: New Mexico
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace

Larry




Edited by Larry Kehl (12/07/17 09:42 AM)
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#443331 - 12/07/17 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Larry Kehl]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 703
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace



Larry




I understand your point about the whole Apple marketing scheme ever since Steve Jobs died and I don't think it will have an impact on the cost of the PC version, and you have every right to complain about Logic Pro being only for Mac users. If you look at what you get with the Mac version, you would conclude that you would be better off getting a laptop PC and buying BIAB for Windows. What I am asking for is for PG Music to respect both parties.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:56 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#443475 - 12/07/17 09:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
dcuny Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1813
Well, BiaB has its roots as a DOS application that became a Windows application.

So the codebase is pretty firmly planted on the PC.

When choosing to create a Mac application, I suspect that PG Music has a choice: port the existing Windows application to a cross-platform library so that Mac version could share a common codebase, or build the Mac port from scratch.

As far as I know, there weren't very many cross-platform libraries that supplied native look and feel and had excellent audio support.

Moving to a cross-platform library would mean potentially replacing solid, working code with bug-ridden new code that at the end of a long effort might not even work well.

I'm guessing that they decided to build the Mac version from scratch.

But when you build a complex computer program, you don't really build everything "from scratch." Instead, you end up relying on third party tools to supply some of the features.

For example, BiaB uses a third party library to handle audio stretching, which is far superior to what they had before.

Unfortunately, not every library available on the PC platform is available on the Mac. So right there, you're not going to have parity for the two programs. You're not going to remove features from the PC just because you don't have it for the Mac, right?

Then comes the question of which version is going to be the reference platform. You generally don't want to have different features in the applications, so you're going to code them on one platform first.

For reasons already mentioned, it makes sense for the PC to be the reference platform.

Now, not every feature that gets coded makes it out the door. Sometimes changes made to the code break other features in unexpected ways. So it makes sense that features wouldn't be ported to the Mac until they were actually demonstrated to work on the PC. Otherwise, it's twice as expensive when you make a mistake and have to abandon something.

Finally, I'm sure that it's expensive to maintain two separate applications. Someone who's intimately familiar with the Windows API is generally not also a Mac specialist. So it's likely that the Mac coding team is smaller than the PC coding team.

I suspect that there are just a lot of things that make it hard to get the Mac version up to the level of the PC.

None of this is any consolation to a Mac user.
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#443479 - 12/07/17 10:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 7742
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
One can make a similar comparison with car models, washing machines, television sets and more. Some manufacturers will have more or different features than other manufacturers.

In addition to the useful dialog from others above, I understand and respect your frustration, but you actually can have all of the features of the PC version if you want. Just buy the PC version.
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#443509 - 12/08/17 03:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matcham Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 220
Loc: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
I'm in two minds on the issue. On the one hand, I reckon PG Music is missing an opportunity in not targeting Macs. Macs are ubiquitous in the audio industry. If you want the trickle down effect from celebrity endorsements etc then you should come to the party. As it stands the PC orientation brands BIAB as a hobbyists program.

On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.
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#443517 - 12/08/17 05:05 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Matcham]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 12605
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#443521 - 12/08/17 05:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 5219
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Matcham
....On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.


Exactly.

I love BiaB

I love my Mac, iPad and iPhone

I love the amazing power of Logic Pro X and its $199 price with free and frequent updates.

I love Izotope and their world of Mac compatible products.

I love Apple’s cloistered “we’ll take care of you world” including absolutely seamless IOS and MacOS updates.

I often communicate with BiaB Windows users and for my production purposes I don’t feel that I’m lacking. Your results may vary and I apppreciate and understand that.

Cheers, Bud


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Never grow up...it's a trap.
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#443528 - 12/08/17 06:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Noel96]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10593
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#443532 - 12/08/17 06:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4261
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
First of all, although I sell aftermarket styles for BiaB, I have no professional experience with PG Music except for a friendly one, and no 'inside information' so everything here is guesswork.

1) It takes thousands and thousands of hours to write software.

2) If you look at my style/fake business for BiaB and if you look at the average number of people reading the forums, there are 20 BiaB users on PC to 1 on Mac.

3) Therefore for the programmer spending thousands and thousands of hours writing code, for ever one dollar writing Mac code brings in, the PC brings in 20 dollars.

Fortunately style and song data are cross platform, so at Norton Music, I release Mac and PC versions at the same time and they are equal.

But put yourself in PG's shoes.

Say you are on your job and you had a choice at work to work on Project A and Project B. Both projects are time consuming and would take about the same amount of time to complete. Project A pays you a bonus over your regular pay of $1 per hour and Project B pays a bonus of $20 per hour. Which would you take?

The problem with Apple is that they make their products non-compatible with the rest of the computer world. Even in the early days by using screws that needed a patented tool to open the cases so a non-Apple computer tech couldn't even fix them because they controlled to tools.

They use proprietary jacks (like the lightning) that they keep the patent on, and as soon as the patent becomes PD, they will introduce another patented connection.

Why?

Steve Jobs' philosophy. Keep the Apple people from straying to another platform by making the switch either difficult or costly.

Now I can't say whether that is a good business plan or not, because I'm not in their shoes, but it does make things difficult for the cross-platform software author.

Getting paid 20 times more for the same amount of work on the PC is very tempting.

But of course, that leaves an opportunity for another to write exclusively for Mac and take the lower profits because the competition in the Windows arena is also very fierce.

And Apple isn't the only one that does this. I had a minivan that I need because I'm a gigging musician. After about 90,000 miles the transmission oil needed changing. My mechanic explained to me that it needs Mopar oil which costs $85.00 per quart. He said they change the specifications a tiny bit, that doesn't really matter, but if I put anything else into it, it will void the 100,000 mile warranty. The car gave me good service so I paid $85.00 per quart. It was OK, the van lasted about 200,000 miles before I wore it out.

Because of these fairly common business practices, Apple people sometimes have to wait or settle for less in the software arena, but on the other had, they also get exclusives.

And I do freelance recording as 'sax for hire' and every studio I've been in for the past 20 years has had both Mac and PC computers in it. Probably for the same troubles you are going through.

Insights and incites by Notes


Edited by Notes Norton (12/08/17 07:01 AM)
_________________________
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http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#443534 - 12/08/17 06:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: MarioD]
MikeK Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2050
Loc: Buford, GA
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.


Make that four. smile
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#443537 - 12/08/17 07:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16826
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
You can run the PC version of BIAB on your Mac with a utility. Peter Gannon does.
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#443542 - 12/08/17 07:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
90 dB Offline
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PG Music News
#TechTipTuesday - Band-in-a-Box® Patch Updates

If you're ever experiencing an issue with your Band-in-a-Box program, make sure you have the most recent patch update for your version - this can be done at http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm.

Patch updates are released frequently, and are created by our development team to fix any reported bugs, tweak existing features within the program, update demos and other files as needed, and more!

To find out which version of the program you have, visit Help | About Band-in-a-Box within the program. You will see the full version number listing as:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2018 (512)

The number in parentheses is the build number. As you can see, my Band-in-a-Box is up to date and will continue to stay that way because I've selected "Automatically check for updates every 7 days" within the Help | Check for Updates.... option (you can set the number of days to a different number). This window will also look to see if you're version is up to date, so you don't technically have to visit http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm if you didn't want to!

Once you've installed your patch update (make sure the program is closed when you're doing this), give it another try - if you are still experiencing the same issue you can report it by contacting us directly, or you can post your result to the Forum thread that also announces the patch update, like our recent Band-in-a-Box 2018 Build 512 Update (Feb 15) post.

YouTube Find - How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES

Check out one of EricBlackmonGuitar's latest videos, How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES and you'll hear a great Band-in-a-Box backing track!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=blJPIX-9YbE

...and you'll also learn how to play blues with just a few notes!

A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qPrejgnwb4M

RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

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