Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#443299 - 12/07/17 08:50 AM [Off-Topic] Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 657
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Dear PG Music,

Please explain to me why you solely target BIAB for Windows users? Why do us Mac users get the basic features of BIAB, Why do you only make Real Band, Power Tracks, and the iOS app only for Windows users? I love BIAB, but your marketing lacks common sense. If you are going to get both OS users to buy your product, you should make sure that all the version has all the same features and software, at the same time. Again, I love BIAB, but I just wish you could be fair to both parties.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443306 - 12/07/17 09:08 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
sslechta Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 854
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2017, Pro Tools 12.8, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

Top
#443308 - 12/07/17 09:12 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: sslechta]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 657
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: sslechta
No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC:

Older info but probably not too much different....

According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share


So, what? Most of the audio industry uses Macs, and most plugins, DAWs, and virtual instruments cater to both OSs with the same features.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:12 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443325 - 12/07/17 09:41 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Larry Kehl Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1910
Loc: New Mexico
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace

Larry




Edited by Larry Kehl (12/07/17 09:42 AM)
_________________________
Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

Top
#443331 - 12/07/17 09:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Larry Kehl]
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 657
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....

There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?

Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.

Peace



Larry




I understand your point about the whole Apple marketing scheme ever since Steve Jobs died and I don't think it will have an impact on the cost of the PC version, and you have every right to complain about Logic Pro being only for Mac users. If you look at what you get with the Mac version, you would conclude that you would be better off getting a laptop PC and buying BIAB for Windows. What I am asking for is for PG Music to respect both parties.


Edited by Islansoul (12/07/17 09:56 AM)
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

Top
#443475 - 12/07/17 09:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
dcuny Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 1743
Well, BiaB has its roots as a DOS application that became a Windows application.

So the codebase is pretty firmly planted on the PC.

When choosing to create a Mac application, I suspect that PG Music has a choice: port the existing Windows application to a cross-platform library so that Mac version could share a common codebase, or build the Mac port from scratch.

As far as I know, there weren't very many cross-platform libraries that supplied native look and feel and had excellent audio support.

Moving to a cross-platform library would mean potentially replacing solid, working code with bug-ridden new code that at the end of a long effort might not even work well.

I'm guessing that they decided to build the Mac version from scratch.

But when you build a complex computer program, you don't really build everything "from scratch." Instead, you end up relying on third party tools to supply some of the features.

For example, BiaB uses a third party library to handle audio stretching, which is far superior to what they had before.

Unfortunately, not every library available on the PC platform is available on the Mac. So right there, you're not going to have parity for the two programs. You're not going to remove features from the PC just because you don't have it for the Mac, right?

Then comes the question of which version is going to be the reference platform. You generally don't want to have different features in the applications, so you're going to code them on one platform first.

For reasons already mentioned, it makes sense for the PC to be the reference platform.

Now, not every feature that gets coded makes it out the door. Sometimes changes made to the code break other features in unexpected ways. So it makes sense that features wouldn't be ported to the Mac until they were actually demonstrated to work on the PC. Otherwise, it's twice as expensive when you make a mistake and have to abandon something.

Finally, I'm sure that it's expensive to maintain two separate applications. Someone who's intimately familiar with the Windows API is generally not also a Mac specialist. So it's likely that the Mac coding team is smaller than the PC coding team.

I suspect that there are just a lot of things that make it hard to get the Mac version up to the level of the PC.

None of this is any consolation to a Mac user.
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Top
#443479 - 12/07/17 10:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 7262
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
One can make a similar comparison with car models, washing machines, television sets and more. Some manufacturers will have more or different features than other manufacturers.

In addition to the useful dialog from others above, I understand and respect your frustration, but you actually can have all of the features of the PC version if you want. Just buy the PC version.
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#443509 - 12/08/17 03:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matcham Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 220
Loc: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
I'm in two minds on the issue. On the one hand, I reckon PG Music is missing an opportunity in not targeting Macs. Macs are ubiquitous in the audio industry. If you want the trickle down effect from celebrity endorsements etc then you should come to the party. As it stands the PC orientation brands BIAB as a hobbyists program.

On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.
_________________________
Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/matcham-caine/sets/originals

Top
#443517 - 12/08/17 05:05 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Matcham]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 11919
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#443521 - 12/08/17 05:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 4936
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Matcham
....On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.


Exactly.

I love BiaB

I love my Mac, iPad and iPhone

I love the amazing power of Logic Pro X and its $199 price with free and frequent updates.

I love Izotope and their world of Mac compatible products.

I love Apple’s cloistered “we’ll take care of you world” including absolutely seamless IOS and MacOS updates.

I often communicate with BiaB Windows users and for my production purposes I don’t feel that I’m lacking. Your results may vary and I apppreciate and understand that.

Cheers, Bud


_________________________
Never grow up...it's a trap.
J&B SoundCloud Page
J&B YouTube Sampler
J&B Website

Top
#443528 - 12/08/17 06:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Noel96]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10262
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.
_________________________
Never question your wife's choices. You were one of them!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#443532 - 12/08/17 06:50 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4179
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
First of all, although I sell aftermarket styles for BiaB, I have no professional experience with PG Music except for a friendly one, and no 'inside information' so everything here is guesswork.

1) It takes thousands and thousands of hours to write software.

2) If you look at my style/fake business for BiaB and if you look at the average number of people reading the forums, there are 20 BiaB users on PC to 1 on Mac.

3) Therefore for the programmer spending thousands and thousands of hours writing code, for ever one dollar writing Mac code brings in, the PC brings in 20 dollars.

Fortunately style and song data are cross platform, so at Norton Music, I release Mac and PC versions at the same time and they are equal.

But put yourself in PG's shoes.

Say you are on your job and you had a choice at work to work on Project A and Project B. Both projects are time consuming and would take about the same amount of time to complete. Project A pays you a bonus over your regular pay of $1 per hour and Project B pays a bonus of $20 per hour. Which would you take?

The problem with Apple is that they make their products non-compatible with the rest of the computer world. Even in the early days by using screws that needed a patented tool to open the cases so a non-Apple computer tech couldn't even fix them because they controlled to tools.

They use proprietary jacks (like the lightning) that they keep the patent on, and as soon as the patent becomes PD, they will introduce another patented connection.

Why?

Steve Jobs' philosophy. Keep the Apple people from straying to another platform by making the switch either difficult or costly.

Now I can't say whether that is a good business plan or not, because I'm not in their shoes, but it does make things difficult for the cross-platform software author.

Getting paid 20 times more for the same amount of work on the PC is very tempting.

But of course, that leaves an opportunity for another to write exclusively for Mac and take the lower profits because the competition in the Windows arena is also very fierce.

And Apple isn't the only one that does this. I had a minivan that I need because I'm a gigging musician. After about 90,000 miles the transmission oil needed changing. My mechanic explained to me that it needs Mopar oil which costs $85.00 per quart. He said they change the specifications a tiny bit, that doesn't really matter, but if I put anything else into it, it will void the 100,000 mile warranty. The car gave me good service so I paid $85.00 per quart. It was OK, the van lasted about 200,000 miles before I wore it out.

Because of these fairly common business practices, Apple people sometimes have to wait or settle for less in the software arena, but on the other had, they also get exclusives.

And I do freelance recording as 'sax for hire' and every studio I've been in for the past 20 years has had both Mac and PC computers in it. Probably for the same troubles you are going through.

Insights and incites by Notes


Edited by Notes Norton (12/08/17 07:01 AM)
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#443534 - 12/08/17 06:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: MarioD]
MikeK Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2027
Loc: Buford, GA
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Originally Posted By: Matcham
Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.

I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.


That makes at least three of us who think this way.


Make that four. smile
_________________________
Cheers,
Mike

My Music * PC: Avatar FX8366ice AMD FX-8350(4.0GHz) 16GB DDR3 6TB HDD+128GB SSD HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Win 10 64-Bit. AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2018

Top
#443537 - 12/08/17 07:23 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16259
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
You can run the PC version of BIAB on your Mac with a utility. Peter Gannon does.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#443542 - 12/08/17 07:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Why PG Music Caters to Windows Users [Re: Islansoul]
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4479
Loc: Florida
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
Create Backing Vocals with RealTracks Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs!

That's right - for the first time ever Band-in-a-Box® can generate backing vocals with some amazing "oohs" and "aahs" vocal arrangements! Add male or female parts by renowned Nashville vocalists David Wise and Shelly Justice, and you'll LOVE the results!

Included with RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs, is a three-part, six-voice arrangement – which you can use all together in your song or individually for more delicate textures! Listen to the demos for RealTracks Set 278 here.

Purchase RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs for just $29 here. It's also included in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows PlusPAK, UltraPAK, and Audiophile Edition.

Have Your Band-in-a-Box® Delivered In Time for Christmas!

The gift of music... some say this is the greatest gift of all! Imagine receiving the tools to help you create your own music for Christmas... like Band-in-a-Box!

If you are in the United States or Canada, order Band-in-a-Box before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 21st for Express delivery in time for Christmas.

If you are outside of North America, order before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 19th for Express delivery in time for Christmas.

With major savings and Bonus PAKs until December 31st, it's a great time to purchase Band-in-a-Box upgrades as a gift for someone you know... or for yourself!
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial Video

Our latest video includes a Quick Start tutorial on the installation, locations, and use of the Band-in-a-Box® Xtra Styles PAKs in Version 2018 for Windows. Video: Xtra Styles PAK Quick Start Tutorial

We have put all of our Xtra Styles PAKs on SALE! Until December 31st, purchase any Xtra Styles PAK (1 - 4) for just $29 each! (reg. $49) www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

User Blog - How To Record a Cover Song Using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand

Joanne Cooper's final blog post for 2017, How to record a cover song using Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is a must-read!

Joanne summarizes the steps she took to produce her cover of "Old Lang Syne" - her final result was posted to the User Showcase Forum: Listen to Auld Lang Syne

https://www.joannecooper.co.za/blog/blog/how-to-record-a-cover-song-using-band-in-a-box-and-realband

Announcing…The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

We are excited to announce the release of a new project: The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)

Songwriter Floyd Jane shows the songwriting process from inspiration to performance and publication: http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=IYMMZVvQdCw

The idea for this project came about when many members on this forum and elsewhere were asking questions about the song writing process. There are many aspects, and many parts of it necessary to create a song, get it arranged, performed, and then published on the internet. So we asked the great songwriter Floyd Jane, who is a regular member on this forum, if he could help. Floyd agreed and was even able to collaborate with other forum members, Janice and Bud. The result is this video we put together that you can see on YouTube or Facebook, called "The Birth of a Song (w/Floyd Jane)".

We hope this video helps other songwriters with their songwriting process, and also shows them tools that are available to them along the way. Also, we mention this User Showcase Forum, and hope to see many new aspiring or accomplished songwriters join this community :blush:

A big Thank You to Floyd for sharing your knowledge with the community and making this possible. And to Janice and Bud for your great collaboration!

Here is Floyd's original forum post for his song "A Little Bit Of Me": http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433190

Check out Floyd / Janice & Bud’s music here:
http://floydjane.com/
https://www.janiceandbud.com/

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - 49 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows boasts more than 50 new features... and a lot of the new features fill the requests posted by program users!

Some of these include:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I love the Audio Chord Wizard, as it figures out chords from mp3 and other audio files. But it is a separate program from Band-in-a-Box, and I can’t go back and forth to change things easily.

A. We've solved that, as BiaB 2018 has integrated the Audio Chord Wizard directly into Band-in-a-Box. Now load an audio file into BiaB, open the Audio Edit Window – Audio Chord Wizard mode, and let it automatically figure out the bar lines and chords for the song.

Q. I like to save songs as MP3 files, and can't do this with BiaB, except a very low quality one, 64kbps.

A. We've improved this, by adding support for Windows Media Foundation. This allows you to save MP3 in your choice of resolutions, up to very high 320mpbs. Better still, it works on current versions of Windows (Windows 7,8,10) and also on older versions too (Vista, XP).

We've answered 49 questions - review all of these answers on our forum post "49 of your Problems solved? List of 49 Requests fulfilled in Band-in-a-Box 2018" here.

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

RealBand® 2018 for Windows Build 3 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 users can update their version with the latest patch, Build 3. Download this patch here

Summary of Changes since 2018 Build 3:

Added: Section Numbers supported. All section letter menus now include numbers 1 through 9 in addition to letters A through Z.
Fixed: Section letters in Notation Window were not being resized if the notation was zoomed in/out
Fixed: RealBand might freeze when generating audio harmonies
Fixed: Loading in a BB song (MGU/SGU) or generating realtracks could freeze up the program.
Fixed: Chords in Notation/LeadSheet on 1st beat of a bar were being drawn too close to bar lines.
Fixed: Support for XP and Vista.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_3

Forum Stats
26713 Members
50 Forums
48875 Topics
399599 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
chadrips, kaushalmalkan11, JonasJ, SuprNatral, Brince

26712 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Matt Finley 398
VideoTrack 363
jford 217
PeterGannon 184
Noel96 178
furry 177
Al-David 166
Rob4580 146
Janice & Bud 114
Russell DeMussel 114
Today's Birthdays
Mr.Bebop