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#445248 - 12/15/17 05:50 AM [RealBand] Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue
BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Registered: 11/08/15
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Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2018 (504), Release 1
RealBand Version 2018 (3)


When I open a SGU file it converts the BB tracks to normal tracks and loses the bar settings for volume changes.

Try to reenter them in the RB chord chart and they have no effect. Which probably makes sense because there aren't any BB tracks. However, opening the RealTracks panel from the Bar Settings panel and it says there aren't any RealTracks. All tracks are actually RealTracks though.

Is this a bug or is it a trick I am missing?

Is the only option to use volume automation?

Thanks.

Tim

EDIT:

IF you reenter the bar settings in RB and then select Generate/Regenerate All it seems to work ok.


Edited by BigSugarHopkins (12/15/17 06:02 AM)
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#445417 - 12/15/17 09:09 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
rharv Offline
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Just a guess; check the Song Generations tab in Preferences:

On the song Generation tab, are the Allow Realtracks and Allow Realdrums check boxes checked?

Is the 'Autogenerate song when mgu file is opened' box checked?

Mine are, and I didn't experience the same result.
SGU opened fine here, with BB Tracks.


Attachments
OpenSGU-Fine.jpg


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#445466 - 12/16/17 06:09 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 331
HI Tim

Yes as above if I OPEN a sgu/mgu in Realband the first 8 tracks are BB tracks.
You can change them to non BB tracks by right clicking on the Track at the bottom of the list you will see an option to covert to normal tracks.

Are you sure you are not importing your file in this case any imported say midi tracks
Will go to track 9 and upwards clear of the fist 8 BB tracks.
Just a thought.
Mike
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#445617 - 12/17/17 01:09 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: Mike Head]
BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Registered: 11/08/15
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Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I checked to be sure I was opening the files and not using import.

See the reply to rharv for more details.
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#445619 - 12/17/17 01:35 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: rharv]
BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 79
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Thanks for the feedback. I did some more testing and took screenshots. I added captions to the screenshots so I hope they explain the context okay. The RB_tracks image only shows a link but you can right-click on the image name link and open in a new tab for a better detail view.

If I recall correctly, in 2016 and 2017 versions. Opening an SGU in RB from BiaB would load the tracks in the first 8 RB slots. Then you could use the convert to normal tracks option once you were ready to save to a SEQ file. Well, that was my workflow.

In the screenshots you can see that my original complaint of the bar settings not importing, in fact imported just fine with this song. However, my drum track is missing completely.

All the BB tracks are RealTracks. So where did the MIDI come from on the Piano and Guitar tracks?

I went back and checked the original file that caused me to post here and it still does not import the bar settings. The chord settings are okay. It also shows the same results in not showing the BB tracks as BB tracks but does add MIDI on some tracks.

There seems to be some real inconsistencies in opening SGU files in RB at this point. I hope they can fix and/or document these "features" as I really like the integration between BB and RB and is one of the reason I use BB.



Attachments
RB_settings.png

Description: The RB Settings.

BB_new_SGU.png

Description: A new BB SGU file w/mixer showing the tracks.

RB_tracks.png (4 downloads)
Description: RB Tracks showing the tracks view results of opening the new SGU.

RB_chords.png

Description: RB Tracks showing the chords view results of opening the new SGU.

RB_open_a_BB2016_SGU.png

Description: A 2016/2017 BB SGU opened in RB 2018.




Edited by BigSugarHopkins (12/17/17 01:41 AM)
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#445651 - 12/17/17 06:09 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
rharv Offline
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Quote:
All the BB tracks are RealTracks. So where did the MIDI come from on the Piano and Guitar tracks?

Note the MIDI tracks are labeled RC .. are they the Real Chart notation for the associated RealTracks?
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#445665 - 12/17/17 08:26 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
CoolBreeze Offline
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Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 106
First of all, I thought that was suppose to be normal behavior, because it's been puzzling me what the BB tracks are even for. I understand that I'm new, but I was wondering why sometimes the BB tracks are not being generated in the BB slots?
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#445917 - 12/18/17 03:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18872
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
In RB, when you open a BB file (in my experience), the first 8 are reserved for BB MIDI and RTs get added as needed further down.
The MIDI track can contain a RealChart, and here I think I get those generated at the very bottom of available tracks (last) which is different than some.

In my workflow, I always just make the BB tracks regular tracks right away so I can generate each one as I see fit easily (section by section or track by track).

In RB, BB track act more like the tracks in BB, in that you can easily generate all the BB tracks at once for a new rendition. You can't do this with 'Regular' or MIDI tracks; those have to be done one at a time in RB. But if they are BB tracks (blue) they can all be regenerated at once.

RB still makes you specifically ask for it to do that, instead of just doing it when you hit Play (and it also has to regenerate everything before it starts to play). This is what makes BB faster/better for some stuff. BB starts playing before it is done regenerating, so it is faster for the user. RB will finish regenerating before it starts playing.


Edited by rharv (12/18/17 04:24 PM)
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#445936 - 12/18/17 05:04 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: rharv]
Jim Fogle Offline
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To remove or add the Band-in-a-Box tracks got to "edit" tracks then chose one of the last two choices.


Attachments
RB BiaB Tracks.jpg


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#446473 - 12/21/17 01:26 AM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: Jim Fogle]
BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 79
Loc: The FAR South
Thanks for all of the tips and hints.
However, the two fundamental questions haven't been answered and I believe this is because it is a bug. This was not the behavior of previous versions.

When opening an SGU in RB, the bar settings aren't retained. Chord settings are retained.

When the tracks open they are not brought in as BiaB tracks, They appear below the 8 BiaB track slots.

Can anyone confirm this behavior in RB 2018?

So, should I file this as a bug report?
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#446770 - 12/22/17 02:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18872
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Sorry, tried to answer what I could.

I would suggest contacting support about Bar settings, especially if you can provide examples.
As for the tracks loading where they do, this is what I see, and I think this is also still buggy, but mine is a bit different. I get 'RC' charts after the others at the bottom .. your RC tracks seem to be up in the BB tracks. (RC seems to be RealCharts but I don't see any good reference to be sure)
At least your RC tracks seem to show the associated RT in the name .. mine just show up with minimal labeling, and in a different location (see below).

Both of us get RTs listed after the 1st 8 BB (MIDI) tracks, but like I said, once in RB I usually discard the 'BB Tracks' feature right away, so I don't really notice the Bar Settings in RB.
My track order when I Open an SGU file in RB is below


Hope that helps.


Attachments
RBGenerateSGU2.jpg


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#446805 - 12/22/17 10:08 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: rharv]
BigSugarHopkins Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 79
Loc: The FAR South
Originally Posted By: rharv
Sorry, tried to answer what I could.

I would suggest contacting support about Bar settings, especially if you can provide examples.
...
Both of us get RTs listed after the 1st 8 BB (MIDI) tracks, but like I said, once in RB I usually discard the 'BB Tracks' feature right away, so I don't really notice the Bar Settings in RB.
My track order when I Open SGU file RB is below


Hope that helps.


I sincerely appreciate the hints and feedback.

Yeah, comparing what we are getting seems to point to some serious inconsistencies. Sometimes I am even missing a drum or bass track when I open the SGU. :-(

I'll contact support referencing this thread.

Thanks.
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Band-in-a-Box PlusPAK Upgrade (2018) on Windows 10
Live instruments: Schecter Solo-6 Custom, Fender Mustang III v2.

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#446904 - 12/23/17 12:01 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: BigSugarHopkins]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18872
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
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#446943 - 12/23/17 04:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Open SGU w/RB - Bar Settings Issue [Re: rharv]
BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 79
Loc: The FAR South
Originally Posted By: rharv


Thanks. Yeah, I checked for updates and applied the 508 update before sending a support order.
I pointed them to this thread as well.

Cheers,
Tim
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