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#445313 - 12/15/17 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's)
pchurchfield Offline
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Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

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#445319 - 12/15/17 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Welcome to the forum, Paul. You might enjoy a short discussion of this topic a few days ago in which I described why BIAB is this way. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=65857&Number=443764#Post443764 Scroll up to the top to read the whole thread.
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#445413 - 12/15/17 07:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2163
Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

It is that way because it is a convention used in jazz. The software was designed back when jazz was not the least popular genre in the U.S. and just never updated to something more common. smile

Once you get used to this wart you won't mind it too much. Just unfold your song and forget about the whole concept of jazz choruses.


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (12/15/17 07:58 PM)

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#445505 - 12/16/17 08:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2842
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There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts. But since these differ between the PC and Mac platform, and you haven't specified which one you are using (see my tip in the Beginners forum!), I cannot presume which one to outline for you.


Edited by Icelander (12/16/17 08:02 AM)
Edit Reason: correcting mistakes.
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#445731 - 12/17/17 04:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
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Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
I appreciate the feedback.
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.

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#445903 - 12/18/17 03:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.
Absolutely, I was just checking if perhaps you could already do this and just didn't know about it smile
Happens more often around here than you might think. I'd even say I've yet to find anyone on here who knows absolutely 100% of all the things you can do with this program.
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#445994 - 12/19/17 04:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Icelander]
Darrow Offline
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Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
I'm not new to BIAB but I have been away for a while and recently upgraded. I was hoping to find an alternative to the old chorus and tag structure so I also add this to my wish list.
I use ONSONG on an iPAD for gigging which uses INTRO/VERSE/CHORUS/BRIDGE etc. It's chords and lyrics only, no accompaniment, but I find that it is much easier to build new songs that way.

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#446013 - 12/19/17 06:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Cerio Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
+1

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#446026 - 12/19/17 07:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
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+1 for more options to define this as suits you best
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#446047 - 12/19/17 09:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
raymb1 Online   content
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Registered: 05/24/05
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Loc: Sterling, Va
It also depends on what you call a verse, bridge or chorus. In a large majority of the old standards and jazz songs the choruses were 32 bars long. A verse was something in front of the 32 bars and usually not played in the solos. The scheme was A-A-B-A, with B being the bridge. A lot of songs were also written 16 bars-16 bars with no verse or bridge. Many of today's song are written with parts called verse and bridge that have no relevance to the old standards. What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
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#446052 - 12/19/17 10:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
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Loc: Iceland
You just beat me to the punch with that elaboration there, Ray cool

I think this whole thread just underlines a need I've seen in other threads, for an overhaul/update to these definitions. To give the user more varied set of choices, a bit like they're already offering with the various ways for us to define chords. Perhaps a sort of "Define terminology in Jazz or Pop" kind of settings for the user might be just the thing here.

EDIT: And needless to say, this should be song based, not ruined by a crude Global implementation (which happens too often!)


Edited by Icelander (12/19/17 10:12 AM)
Edit Reason: Afterthought
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#446056 - 12/19/17 10:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker in the Tools toolbar. It gives you a basic way to define A,A,B,A,C,A,B sections by defining measure ranges.
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#446058 - 12/19/17 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
raymb1 Online   content
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Registered: 05/24/05
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For those who may not know what a verse, bridge or chorus is, you can always label the parts from A to Z with repeats, if desired, in each section.


Edited by raymb1 (12/19/17 10:39 AM)
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#446072 - 12/19/17 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Matt Finley]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2842
Loc: Iceland
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker
Ahemm...
Originally Posted By: Icelander
There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts.
wink
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#446074 - 12/19/17 12:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Originally Posted By: raymb1
What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
Ain't that ever an understatement! cry
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#446075 - 12/19/17 12:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
CoolBreeze Offline
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Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 106
+1, I even watched "A Chorus Line" and still not getting it. I'll make do I suppose.
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#446081 - 12/19/17 12:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: CoolBreeze]
raymb1 Online   content
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2529
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LOL!
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#446356 - 12/20/17 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
My definition of a verse, chorus, bridge does not come from jazz but rock and roll and country music, as it has been for the last 50+ years.

Most popular music starts out with a 4 - 8 bar intro, then goes to a verse, then a chorus, then another verse, repeats the chorus, and optionally introduces a new musical/lyrical idea with the bridge (or the middle 8, as the beatles called it). As a songwriter I usually break my songs up this way and it would be nice if the tool spoke the same language.

I am familiar with the song form maker and it is useful. But it results in a flat structure that is great for production but not so much for the printed sheet.

Thanks again for all the great discussion.
-Paul

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PG Music News
RealTracks Patch Update for Windows Users

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest RealTracks update patch (519) here.

This patch includes some RealTracks audio updates we have made since the release of Band-in-a-Box 2018. 2018 users should be sure to download the latest Band-in-a-Box 2018 update patch (519), as that patch includes the bulk of the fixes for RealTracks released with 2018. This is a larger download than typical because it updates the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks audio files. There is more information and Audiophile patches available here.

Summary of RealTracks Audio updates:
Improved: There were small issues with the tuning of several Bass styles. This has been fixed for both the original mix and the direct input mix. This affects the following RealTracks:
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow16thsByron Ev16 060
- Bass, Acoustic, AmericanaSlow128Byron Sw 040
- Bass, Acoustic, RockabillySwingByron Sw 190
- Bass, Acoustic, BluesyPopByron Ev 100
Improved: Audio glitches have been removed from the ends of phrases in the Vocal Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Patch Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows users can download the latest (free) update patch (519) here.

Summary of changes:
Added: Additional dialog available for detailed information in the StyleMaker (fields for memo, examples, and other parameters). These are set in the StyleMaker (more dialog, a button called "Style Memos etc").
Added: Help Video button Added to the Audio Harmony dialog.
Improved: ABC opening improvements with some accidentals, and leadin bars that occur in middle of song.
Improved: Audio harmonies now used Improved algorithms, and can be easily set using N voices above, M voices below (and have additional functions like duplicate melody, and dup. melody octave below).
Improved: Lyrics will be now read from .mid files that used to be karaoke files (.kar) and got renamed somewhere along the line.
Improved: Support for RealTracks that should be transposed only lower (ie heavy metal guitars) and for future Improved metal guitar comping.
Improved: The Audio Harmony Dialog has been rearranged to be more intuitive when using Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: Audio harmonies might be missing some notes.
Fixed: Audio harmonies would be generated with the wrong notes if selecting a range of audio in the middle of the track.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash on bootup with error "Read Beyond end of file".
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box should show message if the latest VJT application is not installed when the user tries to render videos.
Fixed: File > Open Special > Open Audio was importing audio instead of opening it in a new song.
Fixed: In the Bar Settings window, "Chordsheet and Notation - Start a New Line" should say "Notation - Start a New Line".
Fixed: It was not possible to record audio using WAS audio drivers if "Output always on" was disabled.
Fixed: Misc. RealTracks updates.
Fixed: Quicklist drums picker sometimes showing too many drums in the list.
Fixed: Redundant flash messages were showing.
Fixed: Removing a custom drums from a track would still display Drums as the name of the loop in the track.
Fixed: Rendering audio while there is a region of bars highlighted in the chord sheet might cause a crash.
Fixed: Saving a MIDI file would fail unless saving as type 1.
Fixed: Some 12-key RealTracks were incorrectly set to allow transposition.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog needed some hints.
Fixed: The Audio Harmony dialog was missing the new Band-in-a-Box Intelligent Mode.
Fixed: The VJT application should print out its version number in log files.

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Option 1: Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to view.

Option 2: Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks & RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to view.

Option 3: Install Band-in-a-Box® and the RealTracks & RealDrums on your computer hard drive: click here to view.

Check out all our Band-in-a-Box for Mac videos here.

Video - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets for Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

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Well, we've created just the tutorial video you're looking for! Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets.

Video link:
www.pgmusic.com/?vid=QndXu8H_IwM

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Thank you David and Katie!

Polish New Features Video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

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