You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#445313 - 12/15/17 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's)
pchurchfield Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

Top
#445319 - 12/15/17 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17512
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Welcome to the forum, Paul. You might enjoy a short discussion of this topic a few days ago in which I described why BIAB is this way. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=65857&Number=443764#Post443764 Scroll up to the top to read the whole thread.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#445413 - 12/15/17 07:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2224
Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

It is that way because it is a convention used in jazz. The software was designed back when jazz was not the least popular genre in the U.S. and just never updated to something more common. smile

Once you get used to this wart you won't mind it too much. Just unfold your song and forget about the whole concept of jazz choruses.


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (12/15/17 07:58 PM)

Top
#445505 - 12/16/17 08:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2986
Loc: Iceland
There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts. But since these differ between the PC and Mac platform, and you haven't specified which one you are using (see my tip in the Beginners forum!), I cannot presume which one to outline for you.


Edited by Icelander (12/16/17 08:02 AM)
Edit Reason: correcting mistakes.
_________________________
YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
____________________________________________
BBox 2018 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Top
#445731 - 12/17/17 04:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
I appreciate the feedback.
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.

Top
#445903 - 12/18/17 03:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2986
Loc: Iceland
Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.
Absolutely, I was just checking if perhaps you could already do this and just didn't know about it smile
Happens more often around here than you might think. I'd even say I've yet to find anyone on here who knows absolutely 100% of all the things you can do with this program.
_________________________
YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
____________________________________________
BBox 2018 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Top
#445994 - 12/19/17 04:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Icelander]
Darrow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
I'm not new to BIAB but I have been away for a while and recently upgraded. I was hoping to find an alternative to the old chorus and tag structure so I also add this to my wish list.
I use ONSONG on an iPAD for gigging which uses INTRO/VERSE/CHORUS/BRIDGE etc. It's chords and lyrics only, no accompaniment, but I find that it is much easier to build new songs that way.

Top
#446013 - 12/19/17 06:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Cerio Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 790
Loc: Spain
+1

Top
#446026 - 12/19/17 07:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2986
Loc: Iceland
+1 for more options to define this as suits you best
_________________________
YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
____________________________________________
BBox 2018 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Top
#446047 - 12/19/17 09:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
raymb1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2543
Loc: Sterling, Va
It also depends on what you call a verse, bridge or chorus. In a large majority of the old standards and jazz songs the choruses were 32 bars long. A verse was something in front of the 32 bars and usually not played in the solos. The scheme was A-A-B-A, with B being the bridge. A lot of songs were also written 16 bars-16 bars with no verse or bridge. Many of today's song are written with parts called verse and bridge that have no relevance to the old standards. What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
_________________________
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.

Top
#446052 - 12/19/17 10:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2986
Loc: Iceland
You just beat me to the punch with that elaboration there, Ray cool

I think this whole thread just underlines a need I've seen in other threads, for an overhaul/update to these definitions. To give the user more varied set of choices, a bit like they're already offering with the various ways for us to define chords. Perhaps a sort of "Define terminology in Jazz or Pop" kind of settings for the user might be just the thing here.

EDIT: And needless to say, this should be song based, not ruined by a crude Global implementation (which happens too often!)


Edited by Icelander (12/19/17 10:12 AM)
Edit Reason: Afterthought
_________________________
YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
____________________________________________
BBox 2018 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Top
#446056 - 12/19/17 10:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17512
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker in the Tools toolbar. It gives you a basic way to define A,A,B,A,C,A,B sections by defining measure ranges.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#446058 - 12/19/17 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
raymb1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2543
Loc: Sterling, Va
For those who may not know what a verse, bridge or chorus is, you can always label the parts from A to Z with repeats, if desired, in each section.


Edited by raymb1 (12/19/17 10:39 AM)
_________________________
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.

Top
#446072 - 12/19/17 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Matt Finley]
Icelander Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2986
Loc: Iceland
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker
Ahemm...
Originally Posted By: Icelander
There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts.
wink
_________________________
YT: www.youtube.com/user/MrIcelander
SC: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-icelander
Never finish what you can't start!
____________________________________________
BBox 2018 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Top
#446074 - 12/19/17 12:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8302
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: raymb1
What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
Ain't that ever an understatement! cry
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#446075 - 12/19/17 12:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
CoolBreeze Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 116
+1, I even watched "A Chorus Line" and still not getting it. I'll make do I suppose.
_________________________
Windows 10 build 16299
2018 Ultra
Intel i5-3550 @ 3.3GHz
p8z77-v pro
RAM: 32GB
Roland V-Studio 100
Alesis VX49

https://soundcloud.com/dirtbom/

Top
#446081 - 12/19/17 12:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: CoolBreeze]
raymb1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2543
Loc: Sterling, Va
LOL!
_________________________
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.

Top
#446356 - 12/20/17 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
My definition of a verse, chorus, bridge does not come from jazz but rock and roll and country music, as it has been for the last 50+ years.

Most popular music starts out with a 4 - 8 bar intro, then goes to a verse, then a chorus, then another verse, repeats the chorus, and optionally introduces a new musical/lyrical idea with the bridge (or the middle 8, as the beatles called it). As a songwriter I usually break my songs up this way and it would be nice if the tool spoke the same language.

I am familiar with the song form maker and it is useful. But it results in a flat structure that is great for production but not so much for the printed sheet.

Thanks again for all the great discussion.
-Paul

Top


PG Music News
#TBT - The First Audiophile Edition

A blast from the past... the introduction of the Audiophile Edition with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5!

The first Audiophile purchase included the WAV files for all the RealTracks & RealDrums that were available at that time: RealTracks Sets 1-9 and RealDrums Sets 1-20. It shipped pre-installed on a 250GB USB hard drive - take a look...

Wondering what else was introduced with Band-in-a-Box 2008.5? Click here to see the "Band-in-a-Box 2008.5 New Features List."

RealBand 2018 Interactive Online Upgrade Manual Available!

The newest addition to our Online Manuals support page is the RealBand 2018 New Features Guide!

Just like the other Online Manuals now available on our Support page, this Upgrade Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window!

New Interactive Online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Manual for Mac!

We've added an Online Manuals option to our Support page, where you can access an interactive online Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac User's Guide!

The Online Manual can be easily navigated by chapter, or using the main Table of Contents window! Also available on our Online Manuals page is the PDF files for Band-in-a-Box® 2017-2018 Full manuals & Upgrade manuals.

User Feedback - Run as Administrator

Our Forum is a great resource for all your Band-in-a-Box questions (and a GREAT place to connect with other program users!)

Among the many forums available, we have a User-to-User Tips & Tricks forum - perfect for sharing your own technical tips and tricks for any PG Music product!

Like the recent post by jford: You Should Run BIAB and RealBand As Administrator!

Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest - Over 25 Entries!

We recently launched an Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest with 4 prizes of $150!

So far, there are more than 25 entries! Have a listen to these entries and submit your own song here.

Contest Rules:
-You must own Band-in-a-Box® 2018 along with one or more of the Xtra Styles PAK 5 packages (Country, Jazz, Rock-Pop, MIDI)
-The song you submit must be your own original composition. This could be simply typing in chords to your song and pressing play, but you may also add additional instruments, solo, and/or melody.
-Public domain songs will be accepted.
-Multiple entries are permitted.
-Submit your song to the "Xtra Styles 5 Contest" forum, before the deadline. (This contest runs until September 30th)

For complete information on this contest, click here.

New Online Band-in-a-Box and RealBand Manuals

Do you hate digging around for manuals as much as I do? Now you can access the most recent Band-in-a-Box® and RealBand manuals with just a few clicks on the new Online Manuals section of our website.

The PDF manuals for version 2017 and 2018 are available now. Plus, we're adding online versions of these manuals too! The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Windows User's Guide is complete, and the Mac User's Guide will be coming very soon. We're even adding a search feature to make it even easier for you to find features that you are looking for - stay tuned!

You Could Win $150 PG Bucks with our Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest!

Want to WIN $150 PG Bucks? Join the entries already submitted into our Xtra Styles PAK 5 Song Contest! When the contest closes on September 30th, we will be picking 4 winners (1 per genre)!

What you need:
-Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition
-Xtra Styles PAK 5 Windows | Mac
-a song written using one of the 160+ fully-mixed Styles included in your Xtra Styles PAK 5 purchase.

Complete contest rules list here.

Forum Stats
27959 Members
57 Forums
53916 Topics
445263 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
lazeguy, andymillermusic, Son Lee, 2205, Jay Ostlund

27959 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Alyssa - PG Music 506
David Snyder 139
Al-David 125
MarioD 122
Deryk - PG Music 114
Janice & Bud 106
Matt Finley 98
Jim Fogle 95
VideoTrack 94
Kent - PG Music 90
Today's Birthdays
jazzman174, jypi