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#445313 - 12/15/17 10:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's)
pchurchfield Offline
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Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

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#445319 - 12/15/17 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16540
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Welcome to the forum, Paul. You might enjoy a short discussion of this topic a few days ago in which I described why BIAB is this way. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=65857&Number=443764#Post443764 Scroll up to the top to read the whole thread.
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#445413 - 12/15/17 07:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2059
Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Hi I'm new here and I hope that this wish, or suggestion is going into the correct topic.

I wish that : You could describe your song to biab by familiar terms like : INTRO, VERSE, PRECHORUS, CHORUS, BRIDGE, OUTRO, SOLO, etc...

It's difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that a SONG in biab is seen as just a bunch of choruses. I struggled with this from the getgo and I still do. I mean, with all of the amazing technology implemented in biab, how hard could it be?

I realize that you can add these things (after the fact). My wish is that it was the native mode of song entry, not an afterthought.

Thanks,
Paul

It is that way because it is a convention used in jazz. The software was designed back when jazz was not the least popular genre in the U.S. and just never updated to something more common. smile

Once you get used to this wart you won't mind it too much. Just unfold your song and forget about the whole concept of jazz choruses.


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (12/15/17 07:58 PM)

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#445505 - 12/16/17 08:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2263
There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts. But since these differ between the PC and Mac platform, and you haven't specified which one you are using (see my tip in the Beginners forum!), I cannot presume which one to outline for you.


Edited by Icelander (12/16/17 08:02 AM)
Edit Reason: correcting mistakes.
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#445731 - 12/17/17 04:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
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Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
I appreciate the feedback.
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.

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#445903 - 12/18/17 03:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
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Originally Posted By: pchurchfield
Still a nice item for the wishlist, nevertheless.
Absolutely, I was just checking if perhaps you could already do this and just didn't know about it smile
Happens more often around here than you might think. I'd even say I've yet to find anyone on here who knows absolutely 100% of all the things you can do with this program.
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#445994 - 12/19/17 04:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Icelander]
Darrow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
I'm not new to BIAB but I have been away for a while and recently upgraded. I was hoping to find an alternative to the old chorus and tag structure so I also add this to my wish list.
I use ONSONG on an iPAD for gigging which uses INTRO/VERSE/CHORUS/BRIDGE etc. It's chords and lyrics only, no accompaniment, but I find that it is much easier to build new songs that way.

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#446013 - 12/19/17 06:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Cerio Online   content
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 771
Loc: Spain
+1

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#446026 - 12/19/17 07:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2263
+1 for more options to define this as suits you best
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#446047 - 12/19/17 09:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2467
Loc: Sterling, Va
It also depends on what you call a verse, bridge or chorus. In a large majority of the old standards and jazz songs the choruses were 32 bars long. A verse was something in front of the 32 bars and usually not played in the solos. The scheme was A-A-B-A, with B being the bridge. A lot of songs were also written 16 bars-16 bars with no verse or bridge. Many of today's song are written with parts called verse and bridge that have no relevance to the old standards. What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
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#446052 - 12/19/17 10:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2263
You just beat me to the punch with that elaboration there, Ray cool

I think this whole thread just underlines a need I've seen in other threads, for an overhaul/update to these definitions. To give the user more varied set of choices, a bit like they're already offering with the various ways for us to define chords. Perhaps a sort of "Define terminology in Jazz or Pop" kind of settings for the user might be just the thing here.

EDIT: And needless to say, this should be song based, not ruined by a crude Global implementation (which happens too often!)


Edited by Icelander (12/19/17 10:12 AM)
Edit Reason: Afterthought
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#446056 - 12/19/17 10:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker in the Tools toolbar. It gives you a basic way to define A,A,B,A,C,A,B sections by defining measure ranges.
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#446058 - 12/19/17 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2467
Loc: Sterling, Va
For those who may not know what a verse, bridge or chorus is, you can always label the parts from A to Z with repeats, if desired, in each section.


Edited by raymb1 (12/19/17 10:39 AM)
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#446072 - 12/19/17 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: Matt Finley]
Icelander Offline
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 2263
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Before everyone continues, you should take a look at the Song Form Maker
Ahemm...
Originally Posted By: Icelander
There are actually a couple of ways in BBox how you can define the individual sections of your song beyond just a or b parts.
wink
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#446074 - 12/19/17 12:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: raymb1]
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 7570
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: raymb1
What today's song writers might call a verse, bridge or chorus is very subjective.
Ain't that ever an understatement! cry
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#446075 - 12/19/17 12:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
CoolBreeze Offline
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Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 64
+1, I even watched "A Chorus Line" and still not getting it. I'll make do I suppose.
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#446081 - 12/19/17 12:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: CoolBreeze]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2467
Loc: Sterling, Va
LOL!
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#446356 - 12/20/17 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Better Song Structure Entry (not just # of CHORUS's) [Re: pchurchfield]
pchurchfield Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/16
Posts: 21
Loc: Nashville, Tennessee
My definition of a verse, chorus, bridge does not come from jazz but rock and roll and country music, as it has been for the last 50+ years.

Most popular music starts out with a 4 - 8 bar intro, then goes to a verse, then a chorus, then another verse, repeats the chorus, and optionally introduces a new musical/lyrical idea with the bridge (or the middle 8, as the beatles called it). As a songwriter I usually break my songs up this way and it would be nice if the tool spoke the same language.

I am familiar with the song form maker and it is useful. But it results in a flat structure that is great for production but not so much for the printed sheet.

Thanks again for all the great discussion.
-Paul

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