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#445680 - 12/17/17 10:36 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] BIAB Voice recording.Compressor.
cubalibre Offline
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Registered: 08/05/17
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Loc: Italy - Milano
Is it possible to use a compressor in BIAB for recording the voice track?. Sometimes the singer wears the vu-meter in the red zone while singing.

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#445685 - 12/17/17 11:05 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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BIAB uses the computer sound card or USB to record audio direct. So, the answer depends on where the source of the vocals comes into the software from. Some Audio Interfaces allow effects to be included with the vocal audio.

Regardless how the vocals are imported into BIAB or any DAW, the gain should be set so the recording does not go into the red. Once the vocal is recorded, a compressor is available in BIAB as a plug in as one option to bring up the gain to proper levels.


Edited by Charlie Fogle (12/17/17 11:06 AM)
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#445686 - 12/17/17 11:30 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
cubalibre Offline
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Registered: 08/05/17
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Loc: Italy - Milano
Where I find the plugin compressor available in BIAB ?

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#445697 - 12/17/17 12:45 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: cubalibre
Where I find the plugin compressor available in BIAB ?


In the Dx Plug-ins - PG Dynamics is the PGMusic compressor.
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#445699 - 12/17/17 12:55 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Personally, I don't use a compressor on the input. I record the track straight and then after the fact apply a bit of compression.

I can see the advantage to compressing the incoming signal especially if the singer is having problems with singing technique.
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#445702 - 12/17/17 01:08 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Guitarhacker]
cubalibre Offline
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Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 51
Loc: Italy - Milano
Guitarhaker... I am newbie in recording.
How do you really happen? What tools do you use (sw or hw) to do what you said?

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#445708 - 12/17/17 02:01 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 10421
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Hi cubalibre,

I never use a compressor when recording live. Like Herb may I use one after the vocals have been recording.

I would suggest not recording in BiaB and record your vocals in a DAW. If you are using the Windows version of BiaB you already have a DAW in RealBand. Use it if you don't already have a favorite DAW. Using a DAW gives you a lot more options then recording in BiaB. Note if you are using the Mac version of BiaB then other Mac users should suggest a DAW for you to use.

Record your vocals making sure that the singers does not put the meters into the red. That is the louder they sing either have them stand away from the mic and/or lower your recording volume. Once you have recorded the track you can use a manually raise and lower vocal sections (automation) and/or use a compressor and/or use a limiter. Some compressors also can function as a limiter.

This may sound confusing to the beginner but it isn't that hard and with practice you can accomplish your goals.
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#445710 - 12/17/17 02:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
cubalibre Offline
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Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 51
Loc: Italy - Milano
MarioD Hi,

but I have beautiful Rualtrack in Biab and only to record the voice I have to move everything in a DAW?
Suppose I move it all in DAW ..Realband (I have Win 10) ... How I apply the compression of the voice AFTER the recording? Do I have to load any plugins?

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#445714 - 12/17/17 02:27 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1980
Loc: New Mexico
You would record the voice onto its OWN track, so now it is on its own independent track just like each Realtrack you are using. and just like any other audio (WAV, wma, .. etc.) or MIDI tracks you have in your song.

so at this point you have your voice AS RECORDED, pure and untouched by any effect. This is good because you never have to try and figure out how to REMOVE any effects that you over-applied, applied wrong, etc. during the recording process (or maybe you simply don't like that effect now - a year later).

Yes, NOW using plugins (VST's and DX's - like PG's compressor, or reverb, or delay or whatever) you can apply compression, reverb, chorus, EQ, delay, or ANY effect or combination of effects when you PLAY the song.

Once you have the effects (FX) the way you like them (during a playback with the effects applied) you can RENDER (simply means to re-record all the music that's playing to the NEW .WAV file or new .MP3 file or..)

Good luck
Larry
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#445717 - 12/17/17 02:43 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
90 dB Offline
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I always compress vocals going in. A little light compression and a good tube mic let's the singer sing, rather than watching meters. Plenty of headroom, good gain staging techniques, and Bob's your uncle.


Regards,

Bob
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#445719 - 12/17/17 02:57 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1980
Loc: New Mexico
There you go

Bob is someone who records WITH compression. Since I never record any VOCALS, I never worry about it and hence have ZERO recent experience with vox recording.

But Bob, it sounds like you are might be using external HW to do that "light" compression? or do you use only "plugins" compression?


Larry


I DO USE external HW compression when recording (dbx) on all electric/piezo guitars (but it's probably less than you use on vocals - LOL)
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#445721 - 12/17/17 03:11 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Larry Kehl]
90 dB Offline
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Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
There you go

Bob is someone who records WITH compression. Since I never record any VOCALS, I never worry about it and hence have ZERO recent experience with vox recording.

But Bob, it sounds like you are might be using external HW to do that "light" compression? or do you use only "plugins" compression?


Larry


I DO USE external HW compression when recording (dbx) on all electric/piezo guitars (but it's probably less than you use on vocals - LOL)





Hey Larry,


I usually just throw a Sonitus comp on a vocal, it's included in Sonar. It's in the Effects Menu, so I can "print" it or not. I don't understand this problem. There really is no "noise floor" with digital anyway. If it's too hot and you're pegging meters, that's the least of your problems!

Merry Christmas!


Regards,

Bob
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#445735 - 12/17/17 05:33 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3336
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Compression on a vocal while you're recording a vocal MAY or may not be best. It depends on the singer, the song, you, your equipment and everybody's level of experience with recording.

If recording levels bounce all over the place no matter where you set the initial recording level then maybe you can have someone move the volume level up and down as needed during the recording. If not then you likely want to use a hardware or software compressor on the incoming signal
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#445738 - 12/17/17 06:08 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 1980
Loc: New Mexico
Bob

Are talking to me or OP or?

I don't have a problem (unless you're talking about my drinking, weight, age, eyesight, cholesterol, tinnitus, angina, A1C, prostate,...)

I use compression, on guitar, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with levels or gain staging.

I do it for feel and tone when recording via my rack gear. I use a Lexicon Signature 284 amp in a my rack and you would think that you'd get actual natural tube compression out of those EL84's, and you do, but when recorded it's just a little too "un-amp" like, so a "very SMALL touch of this and a TINY dab of that (Brylcreem anyone? wink )" makes all the difference.

I don't find I need to add compression when mic'ing amps (using a standard run-of-the-mill 'ol SM57) for more "conventional amps" (e.g., Juke 1210, GA RVT19, etc. or, ironically, even something like a solid state Cube 80GX).


Larry
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#445740 - 12/17/17 07:01 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4510
Loc: Florida
"Compression on a vocal while you're recording a vocal MAY or may not be best. It depends on the singer, the song, you, your equipment and everybody's level of experience with recording."



And your point?
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#445910 - 12/18/17 03:43 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18596
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
To OP,

VST and DX plugins can be used either way; during the recording or after.

I prefer after myself, as I'm OK with setting the levels and monitoring them as I record. You do not need a hot signal, give yourself some room.

In PGMusic products it is called Input Monitoring, and is an option, but it's a bit more complicated to do as you record.
I would definitely try it after to start with.

In Realband there a button on the track in some views called FX, just put what you want in there.
In BiaB I think it works kind of the same way but you'll find it in the mixer area.

Also, in addition to PGDynamcs compressor there are many free ones available and many you can buy.

ReaComp (from Reaper/Cockos) is an easy one to learn on, as is Classic Compressor, which I happen to like for vocals. Both are free.
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#445918 - 12/18/17 03:57 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3336
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.
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2018 BiaB (509) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 4)
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Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#445935 - 12/18/17 05:00 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Jim Fogle]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4510
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.




"Is it possible to use a compressor in BIAB for recording the voice track?. Sometimes the singer wears the vu-meter in the red zone while singing."



Or, he might just learn to set gain stages properly. It's really that simple. grin


Regards,


Bob
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#445937 - 12/18/17 05:09 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3336
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The quality of the op's recording can help the op decide if compression is needed during the recording process or applied later, if at all.

I also pointed out that the op may be able to get someone to control the track fader during the recording process.




"Is it possible to use a compressor in BIAB for recording the voice track?. Sometimes the singer wears the vu-meter in the red zone while singing."



Or, he might just learn to set gain stages properly. It's really that simple. grin


Regards,


Bob


Definitely agree there's a learning opportunity. I figure that's why the op asked the question.
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2018 BiaB (509) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 4)
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Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#446448 - 12/20/17 08:40 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Tobias Online   content
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Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1550
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
I don't know if it's possible to compress on the way in using BIAB. But, if you have to use a high compression ratio, say, 4:1 and higher to control the singer it is going to start sounding squashed and unnatural. A low ratio, 2:1 or so will probably not mess up the take but is not likely to tame the input VU meter enough either.
If it were me, I would have the singer review some microphone techniques and practice with the microphone and headphones. Then redo the take/s. He'she may even appreciate the improvements he/she makes as a singer.
Also, it's okay to record with quite low input levels. Just so long as the noise in the room is also very low.
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#449433 - 01/06/18 04:14 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: 90 dB]
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 244
Loc: UK
Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up. Trouble is you can't undo it. using input controls to stop meters going into the red allows you to maximise the volume without clipping. I was always taught that the closer to the origin the highest possible setting makes for best signal to noise ratio, that is if you are using a usb interface or preamp (the first stage after the mic)you turn up as loud as possible without clipping and then in the DAW turn up the input volume to maximum without clipping so you maximise signal to noise. its logical if you think about it.

if you have a low signal going in and then boost it at the DAW stage you're turning up any noise as well as the signal.

as far as standing further away from the mic, some mics actually have a presence effect - for example close to a Shure SM58 boosts bass and many vocalists actually use the effect to enhance their vocals - simply swaying away for the loud bits (watch Tony Christie live doing Is this the way to Amarilllo!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69xk1aBEL_E

compressing a recorded track gives you greater flexibility although I do know with outboard effects some professionals do put a little compression on the input


Edited by Bob Calver (01/06/18 04:16 AM)

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#449636 - 01/06/18 09:03 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Bob Calver]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4125
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up. Trouble is you can't undo it. using input controls to stop meters going into the red allows you to maximise the volume without clipping. I was always taught that the closer to the origin the highest possible setting makes for best signal to noise ratio, that is if you are using a usb interface or preamp (the first stage after the mic)you turn up as loud as possible without clipping and then in the DAW turn up the input volume to maximum without clipping so you maximise signal to noise. its logical if you think about it.

if you have a low signal going in and then boost it at the DAW stage you're turning up any noise as well as the signal.

as far as standing further away from the mic, some mics actually have a presence effect - for example close to a Shure SM58 boosts bass and many vocalists actually use the effect to enhance their vocals - simply swaying away for the loud bits (watch Tony Christie live doing Is this the way to Amarilllo!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69xk1aBEL_E

compressing a recorded track gives you greater flexibility although I do know with outboard effects some professionals do put a little compression on the input


Hi Bob, I don't understand what you mean by "Compressing vocals going in depends on your set up." or "trouble is you can't undo it." Maybe you can expand on your set up and the effect on the compressor in your setup. I normally think of vocal compression as an effect and independent of the signal chain. For instance, a signal chain is still complete and carries the audio signal regardless if a compressor resides in the signal chain or not.

You control clipping either analog or digital clipping through proper gain staging (see 90db's comment above). Analog and digital clipping are different and the proper gain staging is different between the two. Gain staging is different between recording and live broadcasting. A separate mix is set up to properly record a live show that has different settings for gain, eq and dynamics for the recording feed from the FOH or stage monitor feeds. The highest volume without clipping is not the proper gain stage for a digital recording. The noise floor for digital is much lower than the noise floor for an analog signal. Thus there is much more available headroom in a digital recording and the signal is normally 6-12db lower and more care must be taken to not have digital clipping. Because of the signal/noise ratio of the digital path, there is a lot of flexibility to work with lower input signals.

What you are calling a presence effect is actually called a proximity effect, an increase in the low frequency response when speaking closely into a microphone. Again, there is a difference in the desirability and benefits between live broadcasting and studio recording. Many singers employ the effect live but it is rarely desirable and more often avoided in studio recording. It is actually a poor recording technique for studio recordings because normally the changes in tone between close mic and the singer turning away or moving back from the microphone has to be 'fixed' in post processing. It is better to have less of these tonal and dynamic changes because it will take a lot more processing and time to correct. Live broadcasting is a lot more forgiving environment.

Note that your example of Tony Christie is a live recording visually but the liner notes to the YouTube posting indicate the audio has been overdubbed with a studio recording from a CD and synced to the video and is not a true representation of how that audio actually sounded nor did it reflect what the sound engineer may have been required to do on the mixing board to compensate for Mr. Christie's mic techniques.

A common way studios, both home, semi pro and pro increase the quality of their recording chain is to use a Channel Strip. A channel strip will have a high quality or boutique preamp, a compressor and an EQ. Using a channel strip along with a quality mic can make recording into consumer grade interfaces and digital recorders like the Zoom models, Tascam DP series recorders and similar models record high quality, professional grade audio.
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#451035 - 01/14/18 03:48 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Bob Calver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 244
Loc: UK
I learnt a lot of my mixing from my days as a TV producer recording music for jingles or backing tracks for films.

With a professional desk you can compress the vocal signal before it hits the tape (as it was in my day) or the digital recording.

But once you've recorded a compressed signal that's what you've got. You can't uncompress it.

Whether you can compress an incoming signal before it hits the DAW I'm not sure and it will vary from set up to set up.

Some valve/tube preamps automatically compress the signal anyway and I occasionally use one before inputting an analogue signal for recording as opposed to a digital signal vis USB.

As to mic technique and the proximity effect I've found the booklet that came with my SM58 stage mic and it definitely says closeness boosts bass frequencies - and that would be lost if you reduce gain by standing further from the mic.

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#451037 - 01/14/18 04:05 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: Bob Calver]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4125
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
I learnt a lot of my mixing from my days as a TV producer recording music for jingles or backing tracks for films.

With a professional desk you can compress the vocal signal before it hits the tape (as it was in my day) or the digital recording. Charlie : I agree. I have a Presonus Eureka Channel Strip that I can send the line out to my Audio Interface when I input my signal or I can use an Aux Send and use it as a post effect.

But once you've recorded a compressed signal that's what you've got. You can't uncompress it.

Charlie : I agree. But the same can be said for the lead guitarist that mic's his amp and records all of his pedal effects and tone. There's nothing wrong with recording the input with effects or dynamic processing as long as the tone and effects are what is desired.

Whether you can compress an incoming signal before it hits the DAW I'm not sure and it will vary from set up to set up. Charlie : You can record across input signal as a channel insert. It can be hardware or software.

Some valve/tube preamps automatically compress the signal anyway and I occasionally use one before inputting an analogue signal for recording as opposed to a digital signal vis USB.

As to mic technique and the proximity effect I've found the booklet that came with my SM58 stage mic and it definitely says closeness boosts bass frequencies - and that would be lost if you reduce gain by standing further from the mic. Charlie : I agree. We are talking about the same thing and it may just be a colloquial difference.

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#451916 - 01/17/18 11:28 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: BIAB Voice recording.Compressor. [Re: cubalibre]
Ellisonling Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/17/18
Posts: 1
From all post under your question list, I guess you already know the answer of your issue. So here, let's me to share my experience of recording audio tracks from videos. As for recording audio from video and any vocal audio, the one I use is TunesKit Audio Capture, which can support multi-track audio grabbing. And it’s can keep or edit all original ID3 tags. Also it can save and record the recorded audios as MP3, AAC and other popular audio formats. If you would like to cut the unwanted segment and get a fascinating audio track, this audio recording software can do this well.
Hope this post can help you to solve you question freely.

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The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK with 40 Unreleased RealTracks!

Our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK is still available, and includes 40 UNRELEASED RealTracks, Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band, Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band, 32 MIDI SuperTracks, 108 Instrumental Studies, Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé, 40 AmpliTube Presets & 37 Associated Styles, and 52 Loops!

Add this to your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase for just $49! Purchasing an UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition? As of January 16th, the 49-PAK is included in your purchase (uncompressed RealTracks files for the Audiophile too)!

Learn more about the 49-PAK and listen to demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.49pak.htm

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 For Windows Build 509 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download this free patch update at http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#509

Summary of changes:
Added: The drop station has MP3 and WMAL (lossless WMA) quadrants added.
Fixed: "Drag Audio as MP3" setting in the Plugin settings did not work when dragging a file to Windows Explorer.
Fixed: "Pause Play until MIDI or key received" setting did not work if using WAS audio drivers.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box Server was unable to communicate with BB2018.
Fixed: Choosing a drum kit file in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog would fail with error "Unable to install patch/drum map for...".
Fixed: Disabling "Include 2 bar lead-in" setting in the Render Song to Audio File dialog would cause videos to be out of sync.
Fixed: It was not possible to type the # sharp character into the chord sheet if using a French keyboard.
Fixed: Some Amplitube TGS files and styles were missing in certain installations.
Fixed: Song would stop playing at bar 8 after rendering to an audio file.
Fixed: The Practice Window songs would not load with error "This directory does not exist...".
Fixed: The Tip of the Day dialog was not displaying any tips.
Fixed: The Tuner, MIDI Monitor, and Drum Kit window were always displaying in English instead of the user's language.

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