You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#445722 - 12/17/17 03:16 PM [My Favorite Things] Natural arrangement feature
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Good afternoon, folks...

I just experimented with the new "natural arrangements" feature in Band-in-a-Box 2018. It seemed to unleash an even more exciting electric guitar solo in the song I'm working on using the Guitar, Resophonic, Rhythm Blues Delta Sw 065 style.

Has anyone else noticed this very welcome improvement in chord interpretation/performance rendering while using the natural arrangement option in your song?

Thrilled,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#445730 - 12/17/17 04:38 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16569
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Absolutely. This is an excellent feature. You haven’t read about it because it was new for last year’s release, 2017 BIAB.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#445757 - 12/17/17 11:23 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: Matt Finley]
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Hi, Mr. Finley...

Yes, I passed on the 2017 version because I thought I had all I needed from Band-in-a-Box -- WRONG laugh !!! Won't do that again!

Anyway, the effect the "natural arrangement" option had on that electric guitar solo was stunning. If you'd been in my presence at that moment you probably would've seen my jaw drop to the floor. It was as though the "natural arrangement" option had located a hidden layer of improvisational sophistication in that particular Realtrack and turned it on, up, and out-of-the-park. It was exhilarating!

I set the natural arrangement option to "Always for all genres (unless disable for the song)". I want to see if what it did for the current song I'm working on could be duplicated in other songs, and especially for jazz styles.

Thanks for commenting on my post, Mr. Finley!

Sincerely,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#445805 - 12/18/17 07:06 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16569
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Loren, you raise an interesting point. If I’m reading your post correctly, you say a soloist RealTrack was improved. It is my understanding that Natural Arrangement does not do that directly. Its purpose is to change chord progressions.

Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense. To my knowledge this has never been discussed. It’s the same for live musicians of course: you’re going to get a better solo out of someone if they understand the chord progression better.

I would never have noticed this as I never use soloist tracks in BIAB - that’s my job. But I’m interested if others have observed what you did.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile. Software: SONAR Platinum, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20 (2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#445959 - 12/18/17 10:08 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: Matt Finley]
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense.


Mr. Finley...

Yes, I'm guessing (and hoping!) that is what happened.

When I work on songs in BIAB, I tend to click on the "Generate and Play" button over, and over, and over again until I hear an arrangement that I want to keep, or "freeze". But even when I do that, it's usually only the soloists that I "freeze", and not the drums, bass, or any rhythm pianos and guitars.

Now, the original version of the song in question was composed/created last June. I did not change the Real Style, the song form or any of the chords once I had finished composing it, which only took a single evening. From June to the present, I re-generated that song more times than I kept track of, and I never, ever heard anything that sounded even close to what I heard this week after applying the "natural arrangement" option to a copy of the original song, which has the exact same chord structure, song form (AABAA), and Real Style as the original.

Ohhh-h-h, no-o-o-o, Igor! I...I think that I have a created...a m-m-monster!!! Aiiieeee, somebody save me-e-e-e! laugh

Excited,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446065 - 12/19/17 11:26 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
CoolBreeze Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 66
Are you kidding me, it is a godsend! I'm listening to an arrangement that I did with RT, and I was thinking to myself, who in the world hired that piano player.

I haven't got use to the Piano Roll yet, so I've been relying on that feature to get me through. I can definitely tell the difference when I don't heed the yellow pop-up suggesting it.
_________________________

Windows 10 build 16299
2018 UltraPak
i7-4700MQ @ 2.4GHz
RAM: 24 GB
Lexicon Lambda
Alesis VX49

Top
#446160 - 12/19/17 04:13 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: CoolBreeze]
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Hey, there, "CoolBreeze"...

Right on! So, you believe you heard a significant improvement in the musicality of a Realtrack performance rendered through the "natural arrangement" feature?

Spreadin' the word,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446396 - 12/20/17 03:33 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Fellow Friends of the Forum (and, laydies, but, of course!)...

Here's something else about the "natural arrangement" option that I want blather on about! And mind you, I'm only reporting on what I believe I'm hearing, meaning that PG Music music hasn't confirmed that what I'm relating to you was actually programmed into BIAB.

Regardless, after you apply this marvelous feature to your song, listen...listen closely. You'll hear the most deliciously subtle "slips in pitch" that, to my ears, near perfectly emulate the micro-imperfections in the instrumental performances of human beings: that slightly "wrong" note, the minutely de-tuned riffs caused by the speed with which the instrumentalist is picking, plucking, blowing, bowing, or striking her instrument.

The "natural arrangements" option is an exciting, thrilling, wonderful, humanizing addition to the list of Band-in-a-Box music rendering tools dreamed up by the seemingly inexhaustible genius of the developers at PG Music. Yeah, yeah, I know: according to dear Matt Finley, I'm a year late discovering this tool laugh !!! But I haven't seen anything written about it in the forums, so I'm ringin' the bell, knockin' on doors, blowin' the whistle and beatin' the drums to call out to everyone to use this thing!

Calming down, now,

LOREN


Edited by bluage (12/20/17 03:37 PM)
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446416 - 12/20/17 05:44 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
sslechta Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1003
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
I was curious about this myself from this post and dug this up from the 2018 .PDF Manual:

Natural Arrangements (re-interpret complex chords)
If you give a pro musician a complicated chord progression with fancy extensions like C7b9b13 or Gm11, the musician may reinterpret these rather than playing them exactly as written. This can achieve a much better sounding arrangement because the musician has freedom to choose from similar chord extensions. You can get Band-in-a-Box to do the same thing with this option for all tracks in all songs. (Note: To set this feature for all tracks in the current song, use the option in the Song Settings dialog. To set this feature for all tracks in all songs, use the option in the Arrangement Options dialog. To set this for specific track(s) in the current song, right-click on the track radio button, go to Track Settings | Set Natural Arrangement, and select an option.).
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 12.8, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

Top
#446737 - 12/22/17 11:12 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: sslechta]
bluage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 390
Loc: Washington State
Hello, "sslechta"...

Thanks for your detective work laugh !

Have you used the "natural arrangement" option and, if you have, did you notice any of the results that I reported hearing in my composition?

Thanks for contributing to this thread, sir!

Sincerely

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446746 - 12/22/17 11:55 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
sslechta Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1003
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Loren,

I have not had a chance to play with it yet. I've just got 2018 upgraded from last year's version and haven't dabbled much yet.

Steve
_________________________
Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 12.8, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win10, Dell Precision T5400, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 32 GB Memory, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Interface

Top


Moderator:  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 
PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Features a Cleaned-up BB Folder

If you've used previous versions of Band-in-a-Box®, you may have noticed a lot of different files and folders within the "BB" folder for the program - after years and years of development there are up to 10,000 files for an UltraPAK! With Version 2018, we've cleaned it up - but you're not losing anything - the cleanup normally happens automatically during installation, but you can run it manually if you'd like - just select the main menu Help | Utilities | Run Cleanup routine...

Review all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

Introducing... RealTracks Artist Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson

One of our just-released RealTracks Sets features the award winning harmonica player Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson!
RealTracks Set 283: Jelly-Roll Country Harmonica

Add his harmonica playing to your Band-in-a-Box song for that soulful feel that cannot be matched!

Learn more about "Jelly Roll" Johnson and listen to demos of his RealTracks when you visit his RealTracks Artist Bio page.

Beginners Forum - Exporting from Band-in-a-Box® to a .MID File

Our Forum is amazing - an online community full of helpful program users, BETA testers, endorsers, and staff!

We include a Beginners Forum, which is a great place for Band-in-a-Box beginners to visit for discussions & resources!

This week included a very active post, Exporting from Band-in-a-Box to a .MID file. Visit this post to learn more about exporting RealTracks as .MID files, and see our friendly forum users at work!

Introducing... RealTracks Artist Colin Linden!

Have you heard the newest Guitar RealTracks from Colin Linden? You can find his RealTracks with:
RealTracks Set 279: Americana: Slow Groovin' 12-8 & 16ths
RealTracks Set 280: Americana: Gritty Blues & Rockabilly Swing
RealTracks Set 287: Pop Songwriter: Acoustic Guitar
RealTracks Set 299: Rootsy Blues Guitar & Piano

Learn more about Colin and listen to demos of his RealTracks when you visit his RealTracks Artist Bio.

The Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK with 40 Unreleased RealTracks!

Our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 49-PAK is still available, and includes 40 UNRELEASED RealTracks, Video RealTracks Set 1: Pop Ballad Band, Video RealTracks Set 2: Country TrainBeat Band, 32 MIDI SuperTracks, 108 Instrumental Studies, Artist Performance Set 8: Traditional Songs Sung by Béatrix Méthé, 40 AmpliTube Presets & 37 Associated Styles, and 52 Loops!

Add this to your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase for just $49! Purchasing an UltraPAK or Audiophile Edition? As of January 16th, the 49-PAK is included in your purchase (uncompressed RealTracks files for the Audiophile too)!

Learn more about the 49-PAK and listen to demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.49pak.htm

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 For Windows Build 509 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download this free patch update at http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#509

Summary of changes:
Added: The drop station has MP3 and WMAL (lossless WMA) quadrants added.
Fixed: "Drag Audio as MP3" setting in the Plugin settings did not work when dragging a file to Windows Explorer.
Fixed: "Pause Play until MIDI or key received" setting did not work if using WAS audio drivers.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box Server was unable to communicate with BB2018.
Fixed: Choosing a drum kit file in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog would fail with error "Unable to install patch/drum map for...".
Fixed: Disabling "Include 2 bar lead-in" setting in the Render Song to Audio File dialog would cause videos to be out of sync.
Fixed: It was not possible to type the # sharp character into the chord sheet if using a French keyboard.
Fixed: Some Amplitube TGS files and styles were missing in certain installations.
Fixed: Song would stop playing at bar 8 after rendering to an audio file.
Fixed: The Practice Window songs would not load with error "This directory does not exist...".
Fixed: The Tip of the Day dialog was not displaying any tips.
Fixed: The Tuner, MIDI Monitor, and Drum Kit window were always displaying in English instead of the user's language.

Today is the LAST DAY of our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Special!

Our Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows special ends at 11:59 PST TONIGHT!
It's your last chance to order with some amazing upgrade pricing, Bonus PAKs, discounted Xtra Styles PAKs, and Video RealTracks bundles!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows purchase options: http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

Bonus PAKs information: http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.bonuspaks_2018.htm

Video RealTracks offers: http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.videorealtracks.htm

Xtra Styles PAKs special pricing: http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

Forum Stats
26972 Members
49 Forums
49722 Topics
407132 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
easyasonetwo, Beni, Jose Mauricio, Mike Gaudet, CJO4124

26972 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Noel96 391
Matt Finley 273
VideoTrack 247
MarioD 145
David Snyder 129
sslechta 127
furry 119
jford 112
Scott C 112
Jim Fogle 107
Today's Birthdays
CinKid, DPRyan, operaverdi