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#445728 - 12/17/17 03:48 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Just received a Taxi rejection for a placement entry I made and the song had been held well beyond the cutoff date and also beyond their normal 30 days to get a reply date.

From the rejection letter: The music (BIAB RealTracks) and lyrics was authentic to the genre and representative of what the client was seeking for a placement in a movie. My vocals needed more warmth and some pitch correction and appears to have been the deciding factor to not getting this song placement.

This Vocal recording was a one take, no punch-ins, no phrase corrections, recorded with reverb during the take with the cheapest mic I have and in a room with no type of treatment. A complete 'one and done'.

I didn't take my work as a serious means to earn income and sold myself short. I submitted it on the spur of the moment and had no confidence it would ever receive serious consideration.

Oops. It's not better luck next time for me. It's up my game and try to output quality workmanship. You only have to get it right once but how many times will once come around?

Be smart with your music.
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#445729 - 12/17/17 04:19 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4591
Loc: Florida
Charlie,

Dust yourself off and get back at it. Writing for spec is the hardest thing to do. At least you got a rejection letter. grin



Regards,


Bob
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#445734 - 12/17/17 05:18 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3615
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Wow Charlie,

Sorry you didn't get a placement but you did get some good feedback and a wake-up call. Now, get in it to win it!
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (516) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#445755 - 12/17/17 11:04 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 12918
Loc: Australia
Charlie,

That's a very impressive accomplishment!

All the best with next time.
Noel
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#445905 - 12/18/17 03:31 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18734
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Thanks for sharing; good lesson .. glad you learned from it.
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#445920 - 12/18/17 04:12 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: 90 dB]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Charlie,

Dust yourself off and get back at it. Writing for spec is the hardest thing to do. At least you got a rejection letter. grin



Regards,


Bob


Second time around with Taxi and in my third year this go around so I've had more than a few rejection letters. Most generic, unmeaningful and such. This one seemed to have more depth, you know, like they would actually have picked this one if they could. Yep, I'll dust off and start writing instrumentals.... Got if all figgered this time ;=)
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#445921 - 12/18/17 04:13 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Jim Fogle]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Wow Charlie,

Sorry you didn't get a placement but you did get some good feedback and a wake-up call. Now, get in it to win it!

you got it. Upping my game..... Maybe
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#445923 - 12/18/17 04:23 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Noel96]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Charlie,

That's a very impressive accomplishment!

All the best with next time.
Noel


Thanks Noel. I must say, I do have a pretty impressive rejection list.....

I appreciate your continued support.
_________________________
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#445924 - 12/18/17 04:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: rharv]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: rharv
Thanks for sharing; good lesson .. glad you learned from it.


Thanks. must find a way to change learned to earned......

It actually was a lesson to share and I want to encourage the folks here to believe in themselves and the first step is to treat your work like someone will really be listening to it.
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#446007 - 12/19/17 06:05 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5532
Charlie.... Indeed.... there's one thing you absolutely must keep in mind when you submit to any music library or commercial end user. The song you send in is going to be used exactly like you send it in the final video production. They're not going to have another group of musicians record it again, and they're not going to take the time to send it back to you saying they really love the song and could you please fix the vocals or the out of tune guitar..... nope, they're going to deep six it and pick another song that does sound professional in every way.

Taxi generally returns 90% of the music submitted for one reason or another. Rainy Day on my music page was one such return. The review said the music was professional, the lyrics nailed the requested scene in the movie. The screener even asked.... "you wrote this for this listing, didn't you?" (yes I did) .... the style is ballad rock and they wanted more of an indy-rock groove. It was a 3 day turnaround. Close deadline and I spent a lot of time on it to get in before the deadline. The screener even said in the review that I "nailed it". I appealed it but the head of screening at taxi agreed that the song was "spot on" but the wrong style and they didn't want to send songs, no matter how well it fit the lyrical aspect of the listing, if the producer didn't want anything outside of his requested musical style risking their relationship with that producer.... so it was a return.

I had about a 90% return rate, which is average, from what I hear. The forwards all ended up in digital oblivion. I did get one really nice A-list library out of it..... but that library never placed the songs and didn't communicate well. Other taxi folks told me the library was a good one. I guess that's their opinion.

I quit using Taxi for a variety of reasons and started using other libraries I found on my own. My placements in TV and film have come from the ones I have found on my own.

But yeah, back to the topic.... the music you send has to be top bar stuff. If you don't have the time to punch out the mistakes or pitch correct the vocal track, don't send it. Taxi will return it. If you are dealing with a publisher or a library, the president or the screener there will not have a very high opinion of your work and will tend to set your stuff on the side to be reviewed only if they can't find what they need (if at all) in the other songs presented. In other words, you get a bad reputation quickly for sending in less than usable music, and that's hard to recover from.

A number of the libraries I use now, had a screener listen to 2 examples of the music I write, record, and produce. Some of them took me several attempts to get the quality up enough to be accepted. There's a lot of really talented people out here writing music for film and TV. With the advent of home studios and really good gear becoming affordable, the quality bar has been raised to stratospheric levels in this area. That alone is making it harder and harder to get placements. Factor the sheer number of songs being submitted for consideration on each listing, and you begin to see that this is hard work.

I still use a few lower cost alternatives than TAXI. No membership and just pay $6 per submission. The more you submit to them, the more listings they send to you to choose from. Another is only $5/mo and I can unsubscribe any time I want.... or submit as many songs as I want. I get emails for new listings on a daily basis. I pick the ones I think are a good fit. Just got an exclusive publishing offer for some of my tunes from that one.

Look around and see if you can land a few other libraries on your own before the TAXI subscription comes up for renewal again.


Edited by Guitarhacker (12/19/17 06:09 AM)
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#446080 - 12/19/17 12:28 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Guitarhacker]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
Great advice Herb and your numbers track closely to what I've found. Sounds for sure you've been in my shoes before.
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#446288 - 12/20/17 07:13 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Deryk - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 937
Despite the rejection, at least it seems like they had some significant feedback. Much better than the blunt dismissal I think all musicians have received at some point or another. Keep truckin' on smile
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Cheers,
Deryk

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#446387 - 12/20/17 02:42 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Deryk - PG Music]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
I agree Deryk. I'm use to the generic don't fit the vibe, groove or genre rejections. This recording could have been better and wasn't because I recorded the vocal in one take with little processing and no vocal punch in to correct minor pitch error. It's a bummer but I honestly deserved the rejection.

I shared hoping others will recall my story and put the effort into their entire song and not be slack like I was

Fair warning to everyone we can't ride to success solely on the professional results we can now obtain with BIAB/RB generated tracks.... ;=)
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#446445 - 12/20/17 08:23 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Tobias Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1560
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
Could be they are giving constructive criticism because they view you as a future resource and want to keep you on their list of potentials for future projects. Sounds to me that they liked something about your writing, lyrics, arrangement, style, etc... "the music and lyric was authentic to..." Apparently, I'm speculating, you hit on most of attributes they were looking for in the instruments selected. The vocal is always the most criticized part of a song. Perhaps choosing the appropriate vocalist would make a difference also. I put my own voice on songs I arrange for other song writers with the suggestion of what type of vocalist might work best if they are pitching the song. But, they most often pitch them with my sample vocal/voice or their own voice which, in my opinion is not always the best way to go.
Anyway, how to I/we get to hear it? Do you have a link?
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#446495 - 12/21/17 06:49 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: No more 'One and Done' Vocal recordings for me [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4273
Loc: South Carolina
You are right on the mark on every point Tobias. There are several points about vocals. One, vocals are the most difficult instrument to record. Much about recording good vocals is subjective. A quick comparison between vocalists such as Michael Buble and Joe Cocker or Celion Dion and Stevie Nicks who all have achieved great success as vocalists but there are great variances in their performances. Don Felder performed in the best selling vocal band of the 20th century but he's self professed and unchallenged by the experts, to be at best, an average vocalist.

When it comes to recording with BIAB, there are many possible weak links to getting a professional sounding final product but the weakest possible link is vocal recordings. The 'Band in the Box' in our computer gives us the world class, professional session musicians playing quality instruments through quality gear into a quality recording. It's a near perfect recording environment. From that point forward, it becomes what we do with this tool we have that makes the difference between success and failure. The product is no longer dependent on the instrumentation performance, however, the composition,arrangement, mix, production and performance relies on the ability, environment, post production gear, experience and work ethic of the person using the BIAB software. The actual quality of the final recording depends on what happens out of the box. Every Band in a Box owner/user begins a project on a level playing field with the Band in a Box software.

I knew the song I submitted to Taxi was authentic to the genre. It's a genre I've been around and performed my entire life. I knew the lyrics were good enough as they were extensively discussed in detail and reviewed here on the forum. All of the music was generated in BIAB and I know my way around the program well enough to create a professional sounding, radio quality performance track. What I did not do was properly finish off the project in a manner equal to the quality of the write and performance track.

My One and Done title for this thread is my recognition of understating the importance of the quality of an entire project and not relying on the strength of other elements to carry a project to success.

The song I submitted was put into the User Forum well before I submitted it to Taxi. Here is a link to the song:

My Sad Story


Edited by Charlie Fogle (12/21/17 06:55 AM)
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PG Music News
User Tip - Slowing Down and Looping Audio in Band-in-a-Box®

Forum user DeaconBlues09 created a video tutorial to help answer a fellow forum user's question:
Using the Audio Chord Wizard to tempo map, slow down, and learn the notes of an audio track - video link http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=R09Lf3bHjhQ

Forum thread: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=467504

Thanks for sharing!

#TBT - Band-in-a-Box® 2006 for Windows Ear Training Fun!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2006 for Windows we added two great games for ear training: Pitch Invasion and Music Replay!

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Music Replay develops your pitch, rhythm, and melody recognition by replaying what the program plays, in note, rhythm, or melodic modes.

These games can still be accessed with newer versions of the program - in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 you'll find these by accessing the Practice Window or Ear Training Window, both located in the Window drop-down menu. The Practice Window can also be accessed using the Practice button within the main Band-in-a-Box screen (don't see it? CTRL+T to change the view).

Learn all about the features released with Version 2006 here.

Video: Exporting Audio Files in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Our latest video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - Exporting Audio Files Tutorial walks you through the different options to export your Band-in-a-Box® songs and song tracks from Band-in-a-Box® as an audio file (WAV, MP3, etc.)!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=_Px958TmzhA

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Build 516 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box 2018 for Windows customer can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#516

Summary of changes:
Improved: More RealTracks have HiQ transcriptions. Fixed Bass AmericanaSlow16thsByron bad chords.
Improved: The Audio Drivers dialog for WAS devices now shows Bit Depth in the device description.
Improved: WAS audio driver performance has been Improved when using 44.1 kHz sample rate.
Improved: Windows Audio Session error messages contain more specific information.
Updated: Misc. updates to StylePicker database, memos, manuals, help files.
Fixed: "BBW.LST not found" errors when using the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: "mono" was being ignored when rendering a batch of songs to audio files.
Fixed: "normalize individual tracks" was only working for MIDI tracks.
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Fixed: Access violation on bootup if using a Roland audio interface (ASIO) that is not connected.
Fixed: Adjusting Melody or Soloist tracks to fit a new number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: An access violation error might occur in the RealTracks Picker if quickly scrolling and double-clicking to hear demos.
Fixed: Changing a track name using the StylePicker mixer controls might open a hidden popup window.
Fixed: Changing the number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: Clicking on the far left of the Guitar window would cause a "!!!!!" flash message to show.
Fixed: If adjusting the number of choruses in your song, choosing Cancel is ignored when asked, "OK to adjust Melody track to fit new # of choruses?".
Fixed: JazzBebopDannyBrushes sometimes out of sync.
Fixed: Panning the audio track did not work.
Fixed: Some Amplitube presets/styles/demos pointed to a preset which wasn't available in some installs.
Fixed: Some typos and omissions in RealDrums Picker.
Fixed: The [.STY] button in the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: The [Get Patch/Drum Kit Info] button in the MIDI drivers dialog would not find the synthesizer documentation.
Fixed: The About dialog was not showing the Fretlight Ready logo.
Fixed: The Audio Chord Wizard would always run in English.
Fixed: The busy mouse cursor might remain after analyzing audio with the Audio Chord Wizard.
Fixed: The PDF driver installer could not be launched from Band-in-a-Box.
Fixed: The Plugins window would be too small when using plugins that have a small GUI.
Fixed: Using a Coyote DXi synthesizer (eg CoyoteWT or ForteDXi) might cause crackling/buzzing noise during playback.
Fixed: Using a multi speaker layout (eg. 4 speakers surround sound) instead of stereo might cause failure to connect to audio hardware with error -9996. This only happened when using WAS as audio driver type.
Fixed: Video rendering would fail if saved using Japanese characters in file name.
Fixed: When saving a Hybrid style for the first time, the File Save dialog should start in the Styles directory.

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Amazing Band-in-a-Box User Comments!

Great program with lots of support through the publisher and after-market. Use it for teaching, practicing, and gigging.
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I just got my 6th film placement on a song recorded entirely in Band-in-a-Box. You guys rock!
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I love this program. I have only had it for around a month but it has made things a lot easier for me. I no longer have to scour the internet for backing tracks. I just plug in the chords I want to use, find the style I want and done. Saving me so much time and being able to transpose into different keys is awesome too.
As the days go on I will be delving deeper into what it can do, importing some of my backing tracks into Abelton 9 to play with and writing some songs.
Best money I have spent on something in while.
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I started using Band-in-a-Box around 1990. It was the DOS version naturally and I used one of those old portable computers with dual floppy drives and a built in 9" monochrome display. I connected midi cables to a great sounding Yamaha keyboard and played my music using midi tracks. I did a demo for a university music class that was a lot of fun. Wow, it is almost unimaginable to see where this product has elevated to today. I have upgraded many times over the past 28 years but each time I am even more amazed. Thank you PG Music for being such a major part of my love for music all of these years!!!
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Incredible Software. Great for ignorance and experts and for anyone who wants to deal with music. If you do not have a hobby and want to have one "band in a box" is the best choice. Simple, but if you want to be an expert on it, you need to make an effort to master it perfectly for perfect use. The only disadvantage is if you do not want to become a musician, and use it, you will become a perfect musician. Therefore, be cautious. It's not a toy.
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I’ve been using it for about the same time (20 years). I’m a trumpet player and just really want some backing on lead sheets. With the Real Styles - it sounds fantastic! Takes just minutes to input chord changes and find the right style. There is so much you can do and I love having the Soloist features to really add color.
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Read even more great feedback here.

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