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#454509 - 01/29/18 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2049
Loc: New Mexico
or a song that adds nothing to the embellishment? <G>
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Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#454545 - 01/29/18 07:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3712
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Eddie,

Your post and your poll but ... The way the a, b, c responses are worded make me believe the responses are intermingling music knowledge with music skill.

Many can agree that the Nashville session players of the fifties, sixties and seventies were highly skilled musicians. But, many lacked formal music knowledge so Nashville Notation was developed so they could communicate and formulate ideas. ABC Notation that PG Music started supporting with 2018 BiaB for Windows was created for similar reasons.

I believe a person can use their ears and tools such as the Chord Builder that PG Music provides to create a song. Imagine a person noodling on a piano keyboard or whistling to develop a melody. They can then use the chord builder and the metronome to blindly find the tempo, chords, feel and time signature that follows their melody. Time consuming? Sure. Painful? Of course but doable.

My responses: Formal music training? A How good a musician? Permanent beginner. Continually relearning as I need it.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (516) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#454556 - 01/29/18 08:40 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2263
Loc: South Africa
Hi Eddie. I used both BIAB and RealBand. I always start getting the structure style and tempo right in Biab and then save it as an mgu then move over to RealBand to record vocals, add effects and generate additional instruments. It always takes a while to open the mgu file in RealBand the first time but after you save it as a seq file it is quick.

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#454608 - 01/30/18 05:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
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Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I prefer to work with people who know music theory and can read -- but also who can play by ear.

Different skills, but IMO all are important.

Extremely important to me is someone who has fun playing. I've met some monsters who are so serious about the music that they aren't having fun. I guess that's a valid approach for some, but not for me.

And to me Nashville Notation is a variation of the system we learned in school; using Roman numerals, capitals for major and lower case for minor. So a 2m7 or a 2-7 would be ii7 and a 57 would be a V7. That leaves Arabic numbers for extensions instead of the triad. That's easier for me, probably because I grew up with it.

And I've played in 'club-date' bands where the leader held up fingers for key signatures. Two fingers up meant two sharps, one down meant one flat, a fist no sharps or flats, and your knowledge of the song tells you whether it is major or minor.

And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink

When in school I was first sax in the all-state band, and section leader on tenor (that seat goes to the first alto by default) every year that I was in school. I've been treated as a peer by some of the most famous musicians in the world back when we were the opening act for major stars, and I was in a the house band of a jazz jam where people like Ira Sullivan, Red Rodney, Duffy Jackson and other big jazzers sat in. Some of these people were real monsters. As confident as I am in my own abilities, when some of them came to town, I felt like I was faking it. "Monster" is a relative term.

I think no matter how good you are, there are always players out there better than you, and players worse than you as well. So I'm happy with my level of proficiency, and at the same time, even in my senior years, I am working on my skills to get better.

To me music isn't a destination but a voyage.

Notes
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#454618 - 01/30/18 05:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: Notes Norton]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4275
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink


Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out".

The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today....
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Why does the Department of DEFENSE want a weapon with first strike capability? Wouldn't that be the Department of Offense?

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#454621 - 01/30/18 06:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4348
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: eddie1261
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink


Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out".

The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today....


I understand. I have typos built into my fingers. They came as standard equipment. I even have Type O Blood.

And being farsighted makes this computer screen hide so many of those typos.

Notes
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#454640 - 01/30/18 07:48 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Belladonna Offline
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Registered: 09/09/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Virginia
I look at BIAB as a tool and a very nice tool I must say. Again back to being a painter as all arts are related. There was a time when the Dutch Masters and Rembrandt and Leonardo were painting portraits of the rich and famous. And then the camera was invented and all of a sudden many people were taking pictures and painters sort of fell out of fashion. So now almost everyone could have a portrait hanging on the wall. But did the photographers have the skills of the artists, hardly. In photography today yes more skills are required to be a professional. But still a highly skilled painter requires a lot more. The creativity and technique is what sets apart the professionals from the novice in my opinion.

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#454676 - 01/30/18 11:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17205
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?
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#454681 - 01/30/18 11:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: Matt Finley]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4275
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?


Because I tend to be wordy, verbose, repetitive and redundant. Always and forever....
_________________________
Why does the Department of DEFENSE want a weapon with first strike capability? Wouldn't that be the Department of Offense?

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#455396 - 02/03/18 06:10 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18755
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I had a real eye opening experience Thursday night in this regard.
A little back history; I am recording 4 guys that played together 8 years ago for a bit.
They got back together to write another CD. Drummer, Bass player, guitarist, and keyboards/sax/vocals.

For 10 weeks there was a fair amount of time spent trying to teach the guitarist his part. Granted they were writing new songs, but after repeatedly playing the same song it would get old sometimes.

He was sick on Thursday, so just the other 3 were there.
They wrote 4 songs and recorded almost keeper tracks as demo to remember the songs. That is compared to 1 song a night previously.

The difference? These 3 know theory, they know how to listen, and they know their instruments well enough to play what they hear .. but they can also say "Yeah, for that section let's do 1-2-1-4-2-5 and hold the 5 for 3 bars", and they know what to do.

And they listen.
Magical things happen when players listen in a live setting and understand theory and song structures.

For instance during one section of a brand new song writing attempt (jam) the keyboard player started a 'call/answer' pattern. After he did it twice, the drummer had caught on and on the third call played a pretty complex pattern on his bass drum that accented the 'call'. This in turn caused the bass player to catch on, so the fourth (final) time they all accented the call, which made that whole section build up. This was very cool to hear from guys playing something they were writing (making up) at the same time. They understand theory and listen and it makes a huge difference.

When the guitar player is there he muddies things up enough to distract the other guys and they don't get the chance to listen to each other. Plus the time spent explaining what they were doing to him when he couldn't understand theory. That's like talking to someone who doesn't understand the native language.

So Thursday I had to point out the elephant in the room.
It's funny, they were all thinking it, but afraid to say it because it might cause strife between the band. Every one of them thanked me for saying it.
Sometimes being the recording engineer comes with certain freedoms. <grin>
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#455417 - 02/03/18 08:34 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17205
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, in the studio I listen carefully to any opinion the engineer offers. He or she normally doesn't say much if the producer if good, so when they do say something, it's the product of a lot of experience talking. Good for you, Bob.

And yes, I would quickly go crazy working with anyone who wasn't sharp on theory.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#455422 - 02/03/18 08:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18755
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Charlie! I spent 5 minutes replying to you only to see a message that the post I was replying to got deleted!

Arrgh. smile

Matt, the more time I spend with them the more I get the group dynamics and intent of their project, so each week I get more comfortable suggesting things. The fact that they are objective and consider my input also encourages this. Some bands don't want to hear it, so I just sit there and push buttons and sliders .. and I'm OK with that too. <grin>
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Make your sound your own!

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#455431 - 02/03/18 09:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17205
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Any client who doesn't listen to the engineer is a fool. But how you get them to listen to you shows you have solid people skills, Bob!
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac Pro]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#455451 - 02/03/18 10:46 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: rharv]
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4354
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: rharv
Charlie! I spent 5 minutes replying to you only to see a message that the post I was replying to got deleted!

Arrgh. smile


I quickly realized my comments were off point and inappropriate to make. Please excuse my bad judgement.
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:RB 2018 Build 5; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#455464 - 02/03/18 12:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: rharv]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4275
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: rharv
So Thursday I had to point out the elephant in the room.


Funny you mention that. Musicians all over Cleveland don't like me much because I have never seen an elephant in the room that I did not quickly point out....

Sometimes even a 400 pound gorilla. (If it's the bass player.)


Edited by eddie1261 (02/03/18 12:49 PM)
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Why does the Department of DEFENSE want a weapon with first strike capability? Wouldn't that be the Department of Offense?

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PG Music News
Video - 202 NEW RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac we also released 202 NEW RealTracks (in Sets 278-300)!

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Holiday Hours - Monday, May 21st

We're celebrating Victoria Day on Monday, May 21st. Our hours for the long weekend will be:

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Saturday, May 19: 7:00am - 5:00pm PST
Sunday, May 20: 8:00am - 4:00pm PST
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Closed (will re-open Tues, May 22 at 10am PST)

Video - The Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac boasts over 50 new features and enhancements... including the Build-in Audio Chord Wizard!

The Audio Chord Wizard has been redesigned and is now built into Band-in-a-Box®. Previously, the Audio Chord Wizard was a separate app and not tightly integrated into Band-in-a-Box®. This app is still available from the [Audio Chord Wizard] toolbar button, but the improved built-in Audio Chord Wizard can be accessed from the Audio Edit window.

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Xtra Styles PAKs are ON SALE until May 31st!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac - 45 Requests Fulfilled!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac is here, and there's more than 80 new features! We've answered some user requests with this release, including:

Q. I am learning guitar. The RealTracks are very helpful in that I can hear great guitar players, and most of the tracks have tab and notation as well. But there is much more to guitar, could you include some videos of some of the RealTracks Artists? Because I would learn much more from seeing a guitarist than just hearing them.

A. We have a major new feature called "Video RealTracks." These work and sound like RealTracks, but you get to see a video of the Guitarist (or whatever instrument) playing as well. The amazing thing is that this works with any chord progression you type in. So, if you want to learn to play like the great guitarist Brent Mason, for example, you can type in chords to any progression you are interested in, and then hear and see a video of Brent soloing over your progression. Now you can learn much quicker, as it helps to see how a musician is performing, as well as to hear.

Q. I use the feature to make a video of the chord sheet from a Band-in-a-Box song. I use it to make backing tracks and upload them to YouTube. But these don't include any notation for the melody and lyrics of my songs. My viewers would like to see the melody and lyrics too. Is there a way you can include the melody in the video? I've tried recording this with screen capture programs, but it's time consuming, recording in real time, and the audio quality and sync are not that good.

A. Yes, Band-in-a-Box 2018 can do this now. You can save your song as a video of the notation track. So that includes the notation, guitar tab, and lyrics. And saving the whole video and audio just takes a few seconds, much faster than real time recording. Just load in your song with chords, melody, lyrics, and/or guitar tab, and press Save-As Notation Video. Your song will be up on YouTube in no time!

Q. I am songwriter and uses Band-in-a-Box to make backing tracks for my productions. I'm starting to make videos and upload them to YouTube. Can Band-in-a-Box help with my production videos?

A. Band-in-a-Box 2018 can now make videos with Video RealTracks, of the musicians performing the RealTracks. And they are playing along to your song's chord progression. You can include these videos in your own song performance, which adds a nice visual element.

Q. I use the Audio Harmonies in Band-in-a-Box. But I find the harmonies simplistic, in that they are mainly using chord tones. The Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmonies are more sophisticated, using passing tones. Why can't my Audio Harmonies work like that?

A. We've added support for new types of Audio Harmonies in the Audio Edit Window. These do allow you to choose any Band-in-a-Box MIDI harmony that has passing tones or sophisticated jazz voicings (adding 4 parts to make a 5-part jazz voicing for example). Band-in-a-Box automatically figures out the MIDI version of your melody so it uses this to create the harmonies.

Q. The new toolbar is nice, but needs more color options. Too much grey! How about skins?

A. We've added support for skins, and you can choose color or grey scale options for toolbar, mixer etc.

And more!!!

All of the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac can be reviewed at http://www.pgmusic.com/bbmac.new.htm

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Band-in-a-Box® Pro $129
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Upgrade from Version 2016 or earlier or crossgrade: $69 (reg: $79)
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Band-in-a-Box® MegaPAK $269
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