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#454921 - 01/31/18 12:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early)
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Hi, I am putting in what I call click tracks on tracks 5 and 7. They are either piano or guitar that basically play on the beat so if our jam group has a full rhythm section but is having trouble with speeding up I can put one of these click tracks in to prevent speeding up. The click tracks match the count in perfectly. However I noticed the highlighting of the bar in the chord window actually jumps the beat by 1 full beat (it highlights the bar on beat #4 in 4/4 time when it should highlight it on beat #1). Its a bit confusing. So I decided to make sure the melody was playing and I pulled up the leadsheet. I have not done this in a while. I seem to remember it would highlight the note but maybe I am wrong. Either way it does not highlight the note. However it does highlight the bar with a thin red outline. It is highlighting the bar at least 2 or 3 beats late while at the same time playing the notes perfectly. I don't remember it doing this in the past when I was using BIAB 2012 but maybe I just didn't notice it. Is this a bug? Is it doing it on everyone's 2016 BIAB and later? Knowing how accurate computers are and how fast they run to me this would seem like it is a bug.

Extra Note:
In the past when using BIAB 2012 I was using Midi tracks. I just pulled up a 12 bar blues that I had left as all midi tracks except for the drums and a cow bell click track I had put in. I muted these two tracks. The bar highlight is still jumping by almost a full beat. I was trying to remove these real tracks from the style but I am not sure how to do this.

Thanks,
John


Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 04:15 PM)
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#454925 - 01/31/18 12:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, it might be a timing mismatch between MIDI and audio. Is (are) the click track(s) MIDI? And are the other backing tracks audio (RealTracks)?

There is a timing adjustment you may need to make in Preferences, Audio (I think). It plays both MIDI and audio and you increase the timing until they match.

What are you using for the output device of your MIDI sound? A hardware synth, or a DXi / VSTi?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#454941 - 01/31/18 01:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: Matt Finley]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Hi Matt,

The click tracks are real tracks. Actually all the tracks are real tracks except the melody track which is normally muted. I was trying to get a 100% midi style set up but I can't quite figure out how to do that (can't figure out how to remove the drums real track from the style for this song). Earlier I had a cow bell click track which is also a real track. I put it in track 7 and I can't figure out how to clear that track so it is blank.

Anyway I am not too strong on audio and drivers. I thought I would attach some pictures. I went through everything that seems related to what you said and captured 10 png images. I had to spread them over 2 posts starting with this one.


Attachments
1.png

2.png

3.png

4.png

5.png




Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 01:24 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#454942 - 01/31/18 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Some more images.


Attachments
6.png

7.png

9.png

11.png




Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 01:23 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#454945 - 01/31/18 01:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
I just tried it on the desktop and it is not doing it. It is only doing it on the notebook. On the desktop the chords sheet bars are highlighting dead on and the lead sheet both has notes highlighting dead on as well as the bar is being highlighted correctly. They are both I5 machines. The desktop is Win7 with solid state disk and the notebook is win10 with regular disk. The colors in the lead sheet are different too (red highlight of the lead sheet bar in the notebook and blue highlight of the lead sheet bar on the notebook. Same BIAB and they are both 438. I guess I have to go through all these screens and compare them across the machines.


Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 02:16 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#454951 - 01/31/18 02:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13453
Loc: Australia
John,

Does your computer have a soundcard?

It's very strange that you have no output midi drivers.

In the past, BIAB can behave a little unusually if MS Wavertable Synth is not selected as the output driver (even though one has the VSTi/DXI synth active).

As a comparison, have a look at my set up below.


Attachments
coyote WT and audio settings.JPG


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#454960 - 01/31/18 02:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: Noel96]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Hi Noel,

I attached the device manager display for my computer. I have to use a magnifying glass to read the items once they get uploaded to the forum display :-)

It certainly has sound. I currently have two medium quality old speakers attached to the headset 1/8th inch stereo plug (same output I use to feed my mixer during the jams). It is a notebook I bought about 14 months ago with no special changes (right out of the box). It is an MSI gaming computer.

I checked your Midi/Audio Drivers Setup screen on the desktop where things are working properly. It is showing "Microsoft Midi Mapper" and Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth under the MIDI Output Driver column. Again the notebook is Win10 and the desktop is win7. My question is should I run the driver wizard?


Attachments
Hardware.png




Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 02:34 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#454962 - 01/31/18 02:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13453
Loc: Australia
John,

Yes. I suggest running the driver wizard and set up things exactly as I have for 2 - 7.

Selecting "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" (#2 on my previous image) for the Output MIDI driver has been known to solve problems.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#454976 - 01/31/18 03:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Quote:
What are you using for the output device of your MIDI sound? A hardware synth, or a DXi / VSTi?


I guess the attached screen answers your question Matt except as Noel pointed out there is no midi sound output.

I clicked the "Run Driver Wizard" and BIAB locked up so I cancelled with with the windows task manager (maybe I was too impatient). I tried again and it did the same thing.

I created a new song and I found a 100% midi style (assuming blue bass and blue piano and yellow drums is all midi). It is quoted below. The chord window still highlights the bar early exactly on beat #4 rather than beat #1 as it should.

Quote:
M_JAZMID.STY. Medium Jazz Swing w/ Piano
All MIDI. Trio. Tempo=140 (50-300)
M1 Standard Drum Kit
MIDI ST1917: Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Sw 110 , Miles Black
MIDI ST1896: Piano, Rhythm Jazz Sw 110 , Miles Black
Memo: Medium Jazz swing style with acoustic bass & piano MIDI SuperTracks & ZZJAZZ MIDI drums. Bass plays 'in-2' at A, then switches to a walking pattern at B.
ExamplesSatin Doll, Sweet Georgia Brown


Could it be that Win10 does not have these drivers? Maybe a google search would answer that or do they come with BIAB?


Attachments
7.png




Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 03:39 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#454979 - 01/31/18 03:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13453
Loc: Australia
John,

If BIAB locked up, that usually suggests that as user has not run BIAB in administrator mode. This is a different mode than simply logging into Windows as Admin.

I seem to recall that you have this set. That said, however, it's possible an update or two has modified the setting.

To test to see if this is the case, close BIAB, right-click on the startup shortcut and choose "Run as administrator". Now try the sound settings. Does it still lock up?

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#454983 - 01/31/18 03:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: Noel96]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
I did that Noel and unfortunately it still locks up. This time I timed it at 3 minutes and 20 seconds before I cancelled it.

I just did a Google search "Microsoft Midi Mapper Windows 10 download". I have not read anything yet except a heading "What happened to Midi Mapper on Windows 8 (and later)?" | Coolsoft
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/blog/2013/03/what-happened-midi-mapper-windows-8

I just tried "Best Midi Mapper for windows 10".

I just sent an email to a friend who runs BIAB on Win 10 to see if he has a midi driver and if so where he got it.



Edited by bowlesj (01/31/18 04:30 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#455007 - 01/31/18 07:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13453
Loc: Australia
John,

I'd try returning BIAB to factory default settings.

Under the Options menu, select "Return to factory settings" and then select the "ALL settings" option. Now restart BIAB. This will cause BIAB to set up midi drivers. (The "MOST settings" option will not cause midi to be reset.)

Out of curiosity, do you have anything linked to BIAB or to audio via USB or some other external connection? If so, disconnect that while trying to solve the problem.

Lastly, have you fully restarted you computer rather than simply logging off? A number of people on here have reported that sometimes with Windows 10 a full shutdown and restart solves a problem.

Let us know how you go.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#455031 - 02/01/18 02:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: Noel96]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Thanks Noel.

Resetting to factory settings fixed the original problem but it did not put in any MIDI drivers. The Midi drivers missing does not seem to be a problem since it still sounds good. Not only did it fix the chord window highlighting the window on bar #1 it also fixed the notes appearing on the lead sheet page. However the lead sheet bar is not highlighted until the last note of the bar is highlighted which is probably wrong but not a problem for me at least since I never use this feature (we are always playing the melody).

I will have to keep a list of things to reset every time I perform this procedure since it seems to be a regular problem with BIAB. I had to do this once or maybe twice before.

To answer your questions;
I have never had a USB device hooked to my computer for audio purposes. However when using BIAB I often plug into the 1/8th inch stereo headphone jack to either run a small set of speakers or run a feed to my mixing board for our live jams. I doubt this would cause any problems (at least it should not). The USB maybe since I gather it uses drivers?????

I always fully shut my computer off and very often too since it keeps memory clear and saves hydro costs. If find the theory that this wears out your computer quickly to be incorrect. My computers have lasted a long time. Windows is very dirty and shutting it off keeps things cleaner. It seems BIAB is a bit dirty too with this need to reset to factory settings (maybe windows is causing it).

Note: So far I reset these items and it is still working.
Reset the space bar to start BIAB songs. (options)
Increase the number of lines that appear on the chord window (options display)
Remove the checkbox allowing real tracks to make track substitutions based upon speed (options real tracks)


Thanks again,
John


Edited by bowlesj (02/01/18 03:07 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#458513 - 02/20/18 06:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
A bit of a followup. I had to replace the disk drive on my machine and reinstall everything. It turned out that the reinstall of windows put the midi stuff back in that was missing.
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#458516 - 02/20/18 07:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
So you’re OK?

What was wrong with the hard drive you replaced?
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#458518 - 02/20/18 08:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
The hard drive was a SSD and 4.5 years old. I think that is the answer (things don't last that long these days). I have the machine on a lot. It showed up in a strange way with a good news story.

I first started noticing that the boot up (initially every week or so) would not complete. It would stop at various stages such that I had to hold the start button until it shut down and I then tried again when it always worked. The most frequent stage of lock up was both of my monitors would not go past an initial blue stage. Another was the one would light up and the other would take maybe a minute to light up. So this got progressively worse until it happened every other time I started the machine. I could see the pattern and decided to act before I could not even start the machine. I though it might be a deteriorating power supply since I had something like this happen before and that was the problem. I called a new service shop and over the phone he suspected the video card. I liked his analysis over the phone so I took it to him and upon watching the red light that shows disk activity going solid he then changed his mind and suspected the hard drive. I have two hard drives. The other is a regular spinning disk. He disconnected it and decided it was probably the SSD C:\ drive. He didn't charge for his 30 minutes of work analyzing and suggested I take it home and download a disk check software to be sure. So since the seagate software he recommended would only work on seagate I took the next most recommended which was HDDscan. It showed an error on the SSD which confirmed his analysis. He had actually ordered a hard drive for me but it was unavailable or something. The then he took it upon himself to call Canada Computers and found out a suitable drive was on sale for less than his cost and he told me to go and buy it. I verified what he said and decided to take it to him to get him to install it since he was so good. He charged me only $25.00 for everything he did. Sometimes we luck out :-) On the other hand he is smart and sees a good long range client and knows what is important (trust and not being greedy).

So after reinstalling all the software it fixed the problem. However the other video problem still occurs where one monitor lights immediately and the other takes a while. This occurs not too often. I suspect the video card is the culprit here since the new drive shows no errors and all software is fresh.

Anyway I guess the moral of the story is if something goes strange on your computer load down HDDscan and check the drive. It is free. This is where I found the disk check program.
https://www.lifewire.com/free-hard-drive-testing-programs-2626183

I have also changed my image backup strategy. I take an image backup the day after I reinstall everything then maybe another one a bit later if I have changed something but the machine is still clean. I don't bother taking any other images since these could be images of a dirty windows (no point). So I now keep records of any softare I install and how I tweaked it. So when windows gets dirty and things go strange I go back to the first or second clean image and return it then apply whatever changes I made so I have a new up to date fresh install and I take a new image (I update my notes with these additional software install procedures). So now I will have probably 2 images (both clean). I take no more images (again there is no point since they are probably images of a dirty windows the longer time goes on). I follow the same procedure. Apparently Acronis can return an image to a different hard drive if you buy an add on. I am not sure this is a good idea. I think it is better to keep detailed notes of your install and when the drive finally goes (check it with HDDscan) then you get a new drive and reinstall everything (using your very detailed notes to make it easy). I had to return images 3 times on my drive. It is a fair bit of savings of time (15 minutes to return an image versus a day of reinstall if you have very good notes and some experience or 4+ days if you have a complex setup like my machine and it is your first time). AOMEI is a fairly good free drive image software. It works well on Windows 10 (not so good on Windows 7). A forum entry on this problem with windows 7.
https://www.aomeitech.com/forum/discussion/4246/on-win7-the-boot-disk-has-no-mouse-support-or-keyboard-support

A tip. When you take your notes do them in MS-Word outline format. You can collapse by groupings and you can copy paste and indent very easily. This time around I spent a day converting to this document format. It was worth it. I expect the next reinstall in 4.5 years will be a piece of cake.







Edited by bowlesj (02/20/18 08:29 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#458557 - 02/21/18 09:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: bowlesj
A tip. When you take your notes do them in MS-Word outline format. You can collapse by groupings and you can copy paste and indent very easily. This time around I spent a day converting to this document format. It was worth it.

If you don't do regular image backups, make sure you at least backup this file!
_________________________

BIAB, RB 2018(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Izotope Prod. Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M Studio Monitors, Pioneer Active Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#458592 - 02/21/18 11:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: VideoTrack]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Which file are you referring to Videotrack? One of the BIAB user setting files? Where are they? I primarily use the image to backup software installs and software configurations. BIAB would be configured probably the day before I do the image backup so it should be covered.

For file backups I just started using MS-backup rather than Comodo (comodo can't be trusted). MS-backup is pretty good. I also have a directory of regularly used files and it gets copied over to 2 other machines (an old clunker for office stuff and the notebook which now is almost solely used for the BIAB jazz jams). Software zip downloads are also copied to the other two machines but they don't change (just new additions).


Edited by bowlesj (02/21/18 11:52 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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#458598 - 02/21/18 12:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: bowlesj]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10544
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
Which file are you referring to Videotrack?


I think he means your Microsoft Word file with all your notes.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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#458610 - 02/21/18 02:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Chord window highlight jumps the chords (early) [Re: jford]
bowlesj Offline
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Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 394
Oh. Yes! That is a good idea :-) If all you have is BIAB a few other simple programs to install and one machine it should not be that hard. However my main desktop machine has a lot more than that and I have three machines (one runs 64 bit MS-Access which has to run on a different desktop than the regular 32 bit office stuff). Having to reinstall my main desktop without notes is a frightening prospect since part of the problem is getting the machines to talk to each other. I have three sets of notes (before format, during format and after format) since being able to flip back and forth quickly helps.

Before I had the notes the worst reinstall took me 4 days. After the notes and when I was not using image backups I got it down to 1 day since I typically had to do it once a year. Viruses are the biggest threat. I had one virus lock up everything (the virus checker, the control panel, the control alt delete to get to the task manager, all ways to run a dos batch program). So much for virus checkers...lol. Believe it or not I got this virus from a notebook battery website when I was researching nickle cadmium batteries for how to best charge them.

If you have a teen age daughter with a computer studying for exams this is as good a motivator as any to learn this stuff. It is hard to see your daughter cry when her machine stops working and she has no idea what to do. Teaching them to back up is the first defense and that virus is a good way to scare them into listening. Buying them an external USB drive to back up to is wise since they probably won't get around to it.


Edited by bowlesj (02/21/18 03:06 PM)
_________________________
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https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

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