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#454509 - 01/29/18 05:09 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2020
Loc: New Mexico
or a song that adds nothing to the embellishment? <G>
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Win7&10 Pro 64,i7-2600k,32GB,1OTBs HDD,RX480 8GB,FW-410,MIDIplus4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7, XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,Nanosynth,SPLAT,AD2,ST3,Kontakt 5,Amptube4,way too many other VSTi's - but I'm really a guitar player

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#454545 - 01/29/18 07:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Jim Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3463
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Eddie,

Your post and your poll but ... The way the a, b, c responses are worded make me believe the responses are intermingling music knowledge with music skill.

Many can agree that the Nashville session players of the fifties, sixties and seventies were highly skilled musicians. But, many lacked formal music knowledge so Nashville Notation was developed so they could communicate and formulate ideas. ABC Notation that PG Music started supporting with 2018 BiaB for Windows was created for similar reasons.

I believe a person can use their ears and tools such as the Chord Builder that PG Music provides to create a song. Imagine a person noodling on a piano keyboard or whistling to develop a melody. They can then use the chord builder and the metronome to blindly find the tempo, chords, feel and time signature that follows their melody. Time consuming? Sure. Painful? Of course but doable.

My responses: Formal music training? A How good a musician? Permanent beginner. Continually relearning as I need it.
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (512) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#454556 - 01/29/18 08:40 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2153
Loc: South Africa
Hi Eddie. I used both BIAB and RealBand. I always start getting the structure style and tempo right in Biab and then save it as an mgu then move over to RealBand to record vocals, add effects and generate additional instruments. It always takes a while to open the mgu file in RealBand the first time but after you save it as a seq file it is quick.

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#454608 - 01/30/18 05:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4262
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I prefer to work with people who know music theory and can read -- but also who can play by ear.

Different skills, but IMO all are important.

Extremely important to me is someone who has fun playing. I've met some monsters who are so serious about the music that they aren't having fun. I guess that's a valid approach for some, but not for me.

And to me Nashville Notation is a variation of the system we learned in school; using Roman numerals, capitals for major and lower case for minor. So a 2m7 or a 2-7 would be ii7 and a 57 would be a V7. That leaves Arabic numbers for extensions instead of the triad. That's easier for me, probably because I grew up with it.

And I've played in 'club-date' bands where the leader held up fingers for key signatures. Two fingers up meant two sharps, one down meant one flat, a fist no sharps or flats, and your knowledge of the song tells you whether it is major or minor.

And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink

When in school I was first sax in the all-state band, and section leader on tenor (that seat goes to the first alto by default) every year that I was in school. I've been treated as a peer by some of the most famous musicians in the world back when we were the opening act for major stars, and I was in a the house band of a jazz jam where people like Ira Sullivan, Red Rodney, Duffy Jackson and other big jazzers sat in. Some of these people were real monsters. As confident as I am in my own abilities, when some of them came to town, I felt like I was faking it. "Monster" is a relative term.

I think no matter how good you are, there are always players out there better than you, and players worse than you as well. So I'm happy with my level of proficiency, and at the same time, even in my senior years, I am working on my skills to get better.

To me music isn't a destination but a voyage.

Notes
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
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#454618 - 01/30/18 05:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: Notes Norton]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4035
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink


Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out".

The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today....
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#454621 - 01/30/18 06:09 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4262
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: eddie1261
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord wink


Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out".

The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today....


I understand. I have typos built into my fingers. They came as standard equipment. I even have Type O Blood.

And being farsighted makes this computer screen hide so many of those typos.

Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#454640 - 01/30/18 07:48 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Belladonna Online   content
Apprentice

Registered: 09/09/17
Posts: 225
Loc: Virginia
I look at BIAB as a tool and a very nice tool I must say. Again back to being a painter as all arts are related. There was a time when the Dutch Masters and Rembrandt and Leonardo were painting portraits of the rich and famous. And then the camera was invented and all of a sudden many people were taking pictures and painters sort of fell out of fashion. So now almost everyone could have a portrait hanging on the wall. But did the photographers have the skills of the artists, hardly. In photography today yes more skills are required to be a professional. But still a highly skilled painter requires a lot more. The creativity and technique is what sets apart the professionals from the novice in my opinion.

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#454676 - 01/30/18 11:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16841
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?
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BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile; [& 2017 Mac]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#454681 - 01/30/18 11:21 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: Matt Finley]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4035
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?


Because I tend to be wordy, verbose, repetitive and redundant. Always and forever....
_________________________
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

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#455396 - 02/03/18 06:10 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18669
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I had a real eye opening experience Thursday night in this regard.
A little back history; I am recording 4 guys that played together 8 years ago for a bit.
They got back together to write another CD. Drummer, Bass player, guitarist, and keyboards/sax/vocals.

For 10 weeks there was a fair amount of time spent trying to teach the guitarist his part. Granted they were writing new songs, but after repeatedly playing the same song it would get old sometimes.

He was sick on Thursday, so just the other 3 were there.
They wrote 4 songs and recorded almost keeper tracks as demo to remember the songs. That is compared to 1 song a night previously.

The difference? These 3 know theory, they know how to listen, and they know their instruments well enough to play what they hear .. but they can also say "Yeah, for that section let's do 1-2-1-4-2-5 and hold the 5 for 3 bars", and they know what to do.

And they listen.
Magical things happen when players listen in a live setting and understand theory and song structures.

For instance during one section of a brand new song writing attempt (jam) the keyboard player started a 'call/answer' pattern. After he did it twice, the drummer had caught on and on the third call played a pretty complex pattern on his bass drum that accented the 'call'. This in turn caused the bass player to catch on, so the fourth (final) time they all accented the call, which made that whole section build up. This was very cool to hear from guys playing something they were writing (making up) at the same time. They understand theory and listen and it makes a huge difference.

When the guitar player is there he muddies things up enough to distract the other guys and they don't get the chance to listen to each other. Plus the time spent explaining what they were doing to him when he couldn't understand theory. That's like talking to someone who doesn't understand the native language.

So Thursday I had to point out the elephant in the room.
It's funny, they were all thinking it, but afraid to say it because it might cause strife between the band. Every one of them thanked me for saying it.
Sometimes being the recording engineer comes with certain freedoms. <grin>
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#455417 - 02/03/18 08:34 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16841
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, in the studio I listen carefully to any opinion the engineer offers. He or she normally doesn't say much if the producer if good, so when they do say something, it's the product of a lot of experience talking. Good for you, Bob.

And yes, I would quickly go crazy working with anyone who wasn't sharp on theory.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile; [& 2017 Mac]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#455422 - 02/03/18 08:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18669
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Charlie! I spent 5 minutes replying to you only to see a message that the post I was replying to got deleted!

Arrgh. smile

Matt, the more time I spend with them the more I get the group dynamics and intent of their project, so each week I get more comfortable suggesting things. The fact that they are objective and consider my input also encourages this. Some bands don't want to hear it, so I just sit there and push buttons and sliders .. and I'm OK with that too. <grin>
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Make your sound your own!

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#455431 - 02/03/18 09:14 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: eddie1261]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 16841
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Any client who doesn't listen to the engineer is a fool. But how you get them to listen to you shows you have solid people skills, Bob!
_________________________
BIAB 2018 PC Audiophile; [& 2017 Mac]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb RAM; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & 6" monitors.

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#455451 - 02/03/18 10:46 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: rharv]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4170
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: rharv
Charlie! I spent 5 minutes replying to you only to see a message that the post I was replying to got deleted!

Arrgh. smile


I quickly realized my comments were off point and inappropriate to make. Please excuse my bad judgement.
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BiaB Ultra Pak 2018:Build 512, RB 2018 Build 5; Windows 7 64 bit AMD Athlon IIX2 215 Dual-core processor; 500GB hard drive; 4GB DDR3 Memory.

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#455464 - 02/03/18 12:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Just because I am curious [Re: rharv]
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4035
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: rharv
So Thursday I had to point out the elephant in the room.


Funny you mention that. Musicians all over Cleveland don't like me much because I have never seen an elephant in the room that I did not quickly point out....

Sometimes even a 400 pound gorilla. (If it's the bass player.)


Edited by eddie1261 (02/03/18 12:49 PM)
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Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


PG Music News
Beginners Help - Muting the Melody Notation

Visit our Beginners Forum, and you'll notice our amazing Forum Community helping out new program users!

Like this recent post regarding Muting the Melody Notation: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=458716 - Forum user Matt Finley did a great job of answering the new program user!

Our Beginners Forum really is a great resource for new program users!

Q: When I have entered chords and notation for a song, is it possible to mute the notation and just have the chords playing? This would be helpful for when I just want the chord backing track but want to read the notation.

A: There are several ways to do this. The easiest is probably to use the Mixer window and change the volume slider to zero for the Melody track. Or, hit the Mute icon on the Mixer for the Melody Track.

Another way, with more control rather than all or nothing, is to press F5 at the measure where you want to mute, and select mute or change the volume to zero. Later, press F5 and select Return to Normal, or change the volume back.

Introducing... RealTracks Artists David Wise & Shelly Justice!

For the first time ever Band-in-a-Box® can generate backing vocals with some amazing "oohs" and "aahs" vocal arrangements with RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs! Add male or female parts by renowned Nashville vocalists David Wise and Shelly Justice, and you'll LOVE the results!

David and Shelly have recorded with many different artists, including CeCe Winans, Dolly Parton, Don Henley, Donnie McClurkin, Jeremy Camp, Lady Antebellum, OneRepublic, Steve Green, and more!

RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs includes a three-part, six-voice arrangement – which you can use all together in your song or individually for more delicate textures! Listen to the demos for RealTracks Set 278 here.

Purchase RealTrack Set 278: Shiny Vocals Oohs and Aahs for just $29 here. It's also included in the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows PlusPAK, UltraPAK, and Audiophile Edition.

Learn more about Dave & Shelly when you visit their RealTracks Artist Bio page:
David Wise: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=150
Shelly Justice: http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?a=151

#TechTipTuesday - Band-in-a-Box® Patch Updates

If you're ever experiencing an issue with your Band-in-a-Box program, make sure you have the most recent patch update for your version - this can be done at http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm.

Patch updates are released frequently, and are created by our development team to fix any reported bugs, tweak existing features within the program, update demos and other files as needed, and more!

To find out which version of the program you have, visit Help | About Band-in-a-Box within the program. You will see the full version number listing as:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2018 (512)

The number in parentheses is the build number. As you can see, my Band-in-a-Box is up to date and will continue to stay that way because I've selected "Automatically check for updates every 7 days" within the Help | Check for Updates.... option (you can set the number of days to a different number). This window will also look to see if you're version is up to date, so you don't technically have to visit http://www.pgmusic.com/support.updates.win.htm if you didn't want to!

Once you've installed your patch update (make sure the program is closed when you're doing this), give it another try - if you are still experiencing the same issue you can report it by contacting us directly, or you can post your result to the Forum thread that also announces the patch update, like our recent Band-in-a-Box 2018 Build 512 Update (Feb 15) post.

YouTube Find - How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES

Check out one of EricBlackmonGuitar's latest videos, How To Play SLOW A7 BLUES Guitar Solo With 4 NOTES and you'll hear a great Band-in-a-Box backing track!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=blJPIX-9YbE

...and you'll also learn how to play blues with just a few notes!

A Little Bit Of Me Music Video!

A great music video created by forum user Floyd Jane! https://youtu.be/qPrejgnwb4M?t=3600

This song was featured in a detailed "The Birth of a Song" video created by Floyd Jane - watch the complete video here:
http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=qPrejgnwb4M

RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

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