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#456464 - 02/08/18 10:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] drumset mixer?
BIABDEX Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/07/17
Posts: 5
Hello,
I have Band in a Box 2017 pro.
Is there a mixer for the drum set only? So that I can make, for example, only the hi-hat louder or the rimshot or quieter the ride cymbal? Without having to change the whole style?
Or is there a plug-in? That's an important thing.
I am looking forward to answers.
Thanks.

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#456480 - 02/08/18 11:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4136
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
If you are using MIDI drums then you can adjust the velocity level for each instrument part like snare, kick, high-hat and so on. There is also some MIDI tools that can automate changing velocity.

RealDrums originate from a stereo audio file so you do not have access to the individual instruments. However with clever use of equalization you can significantly alter the sound of the stereo audio track thus highlighting the sound of individual instruments. There are also third party tools that mask the original instrument sound, or sounds, and replace the original sound with a sampled drum sound. Do an internet search using the term "drum replacement VST or app".
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2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
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#456566 - 02/09/18 01:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Jim Fogle]
BIABDEX Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/07/17
Posts: 5
Thanks for your reply.
"If you are using MIDI drums then you can adjust the velocity level for each instrument part like snare, kick, high-hat and so on. There is also some MIDI tools that can automate changing velocity."
Where is it?
Do your mean "edith the current style" where I have to change all the velocity numbers? With each Pattern?
This would be incredibly uncomfortable.

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#456576 - 02/09/18 02:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Teunis Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 292
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
It should be possible to export the drum track out to a midi file and adjust the individual parts "hi hat", "snare", "kick drum" etc. pull the midi into a daw in the midi file each part appears as a note on its own line. Kick drum note C, snare maybe D and so on. In Sonar for example it is very easy to adjust the overall velocity of a part or the entire kit (or indeed volume if preferred). It is also very easy to randomise velocities within a range. I imagine most daws would have similar features.

Just a thought

Tony
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#456582 - 02/09/18 03:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Jazzman Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1461
Loc: UK
Hello BIABDEX

If you go to - Preferences > Drum kit > check Set Drum Volumes > Set Drum Kit Volumes - you can do what you are looking for in Midi Drums

Just experiment with this option

jazzman


Edited by Jazzman (02/09/18 05:30 AM)
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#456758 - 02/10/18 06:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Jazzman]
mrgeeze Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 92
Loc: hatteras island, nc
First and foremost, I am a 100% consumer of Real Drums.
I don't do any midi drums at all inside biab.

But, It would be a great thing to get more control over real drums.

As mentiones, a volume mixer would be a great for all the items in the current kit

Perhaps also A simple/complex slidebar (or wahtever UI object) to change the complexity of the groove being played.

For example, the drummers capability in Apple's Logic Pro X are quite compelling.
It would be fantastic to have some of those capabilities in BIAB.

Just saying, perhaps we could spin up a wish list item for the Real Drums
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#456802 - 02/10/18 10:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: mrgeeze]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4136
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Perform a search and you'll find multi-track RealDrums has been requested multiple times in the Wishlist forum.

Since RealDrums are stereo audio files I can't think of any way other than heavy use of frequency limited equalization bands to highlight or suppress specific instruments within a drum set. There are programs that perform just that function but they are pretty expensive ($99 to $150 US). These programs typically take the next step and replace the individual instrument sounds with triggered samples so the music producer can have the exact sound desired. +++ HERE +++ is a Sound-On-Sound article that explains the process very well.

In general I believe adding frequency band equalization would add an expensive feature to Band-in-a-Box that I'm not willing to pay the cost for.

Some people desiring to have more control over the drum sounds heard in their music abandon RealDrums and resort to the use of drum loops by +++ Drum Drops +++, +++ Drums On Demand +++ and +++ Beta Monkey +++ or use a virtual drummer like +++ RealiDrums +++, +++ EZ Drummer +++ and +++ Steven Slate +++
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#456824 - 02/10/18 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Jazzman]
John-Luke Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 1269
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Jazzman
Hello BIABDEX

If you go to - Preferences > Drum kit > check Set Drum Volumes > Set Drum Kit Volumes - you can do what you are looking for in Midi Drums


Just note that this feature which works fine for MIDI Drums is a global setting and not a song dependent setting.

It would make much sense to have a song dependent setting.
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#456867 - 02/10/18 04:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Jim Fogle]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11450
Loc: Hamlin NY
Another option would be in a DAW to copy the drum track a few times then EQ each track to bring out one of the drums while suppressing the others. You can use any EQ program to do this, including the one that comes with your DAW. This includes RB.
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#456868 - 02/10/18 04:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: MarioD]
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4136
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Ah Mario, I was saving that suggestion until the very last. No need to share all the secrets Recording Revolution has to offer! smile
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Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (520) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#456881 - 02/10/18 06:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Jim Fogle]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11450
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Ah Mario, I was saving that suggestion until the very last. No need to share all the secrets Recording Revolution has to offer! smile


OK Jim, I'll say nothing about using reverb in a bus. I'll leave that for you wink
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#456918 - 02/11/18 04:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: John-Luke]
Jazzman Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1461
Loc: UK
Hi John-Luke

Agree - it would make so much more sense if it were song dependant as right now you set it up for one style and get a different result with another

jazzman
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BIAB - RealBand - 2018
Windows 10 64

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#456930 - 02/11/18 05:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4449
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
It's one of the reasons why I use MIDI drums almost exclusively.

I export to a sequencer/DAW and have complete control of every drum instrument.

I can highlight or choose any drum note in the change filter and make it louder or softer by an arbitrary number or a percentage.

Plus, with a simple drag and drop I can even turn the cymbal into a cowbell, a snare into a side-stick, a shaker into a hi-hat or whatever a want.

I can move certain beats or sub-beats to change the groove, turn a gentle swing into a hard swing, rush or drag the weak beats, and nudge certain drum instruments a couple of tics ahead of the others. I find pushing the hi-hat a couple of ticks ahead will make it come out of the mix a little better without turning it up. There are dozens more tricks I've discovered or read about.

I can even change drum kits to one more appropriate for the song I'm working on.

MIDI is thousands of times more editable than Audio and with a good sound module the MIDI parts can sound 90% or more as good as the real instrument, so close that 99.99% of your audience can't tell the difference. So with the editing capabilities, you can end up with better, more expressive music with MIDI.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Of course, there is more than one right way to make music, and my way might not be the best way for you.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#456941 - 02/11/18 06:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Notes Norton]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11450
Loc: Hamlin NY
I'm with Notes. MIDI is the perfect choice for drums as drums are one instrument that MIDI emulates perfectly. Plus the sound source does not have to be expensive. Even some of the free drum kits available sound great.
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#456957 - 02/11/18 08:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17650
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
If it’s RealDrums, and the premade drum mix bothered me enough, I would work on individual sounds using an EQ plugin set to a very narrow Q. Something really offensive like a loud cymbal, say.

And there’s always Melodyne Editor if this needs to be taken to a possibly insane level.

If you have found a RealDrum that you think is actually wrong, with a clearly wrong mix on the kit, you can report it to PG Music. If they agree, they can remix it and issue a patch. This has occurred a couple of time in testing. Although it was rare that several of us would agree on the need for change, when we did, they adjusted it. I don’t think this has happened since the early days of RealDrums, but it’s possible.
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#459897 - 03/01/18 09:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
rayc Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 534
Loc: Stanwell Park NSW Australia
A multiband compressor + EQ may help with the stereo file.
I would caution "be careful what you wish for" with regard to mixing real drums.
REAL multitracked drums are hard work to EQ, pan & mix.
The RealDrums aren't very flexible but they are, generally, an excellent mix already.
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#459905 - 03/01/18 11:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2628
There's also free MT Power Drummer.
Set it as Default Synth (if you have no other midi tracks using it).
Set the RealDrum track to Force Drums to MIDI drums, or in RealDrums Preferences uncheck Enable RealDrums, this will give you Midi Drums with a mixer as default.

http://www.powerdrumkit.com/ Win/Mac
http://www.powerdrumkit.com/presets.htm

Also https://smmdrums.wordpress.com/2016/02/06/sm-drums-sforzando-1-0/
and, if you want more control over Real Drums https://www.ujam.com/
these are Real Drums playing but give full control over the mix, it has heaps of styles and presets.






Attachments
Biab-MT-Drums.png (133 downloads)
Biab-UJAM-VD.png (128 downloads)

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#459997 - 03/02/18 11:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: BIABDEX]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6592
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
This subject is a perfect example of Biab NOT being a DAW. This level of editing is not was it's designed to do. You have to remember what Biab is. It creates generic backing tracks for you to practice with or use as a teaching tool. It's not designed to finalize a full music production. Use Real Band or a standard DAW for that.

MrGeeze, the example you cited like changing the power or style of the drums or separating each part of a kit are all midi techniques. You can do that in Jamstix or Superior Drums and other drum plugins. They're not using prerecorded audio files. Single audio sample hits yes, but full stereo recordings of the entire kit, no. Editing audio is a whole different thing.

Like Matt said yes you can edit an audio file but it requires a nerd kid with a degree in digital audio who has thousands and thousands of dollars worth of the best software out there. He can do it but all us old farts? Fuggettaboutit.

Bob
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#460040 - 03/02/18 03:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Pipeline]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2628
A choice would be good for those that want simple ready mixed stereo or a multichannel full control version.



UJAM Virtual Drummer is good for those that want "Real Drums", it will give you live linear playing of Real Drums as well as all the single hits that can be triggered by adding midi notes in the piano roll, so you can put the note switches in the midi drum track to sync/start what playing you need then you can add any drum solos by adding GM midi where ever you like. You can import a midi drum track from a midi file that has a classic solo to another track and simply copy the sections in the piano roll you want to add to the Real Drumming track as fills solos riffs etc..

Just thought I would give you some more options, maybe someone will find helpful now or down the track.
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#461720 - 03/11/18 07:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: drumset mixer? [Re: Pipeline]
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2628
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