You need to be logged in to post on the forum
Topic Options
Index
#456855 - 02/10/18 03:53 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Soundstage Separation via reverb
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1435

I'm experimenting with separating the soundstage by using different reverbs on the different areas of the soundstage.

The wetter the verb the further back
The less pre-delay the further back
The more decay the further back

If these are true (and I think I got it right) Then how can I create separation of the soundstage through depth with reverb?

My current experiment is to send all my panned instruments to one bus and all my slightly panned and middle instruments to another bus (not including bass and drums).

I like a bit of spring-like verb on guitars and because I usually have electric guitars panned, I’m sending a short decay spring-like verb to the panned bus (I may add a channel tool and subtract a few decibels from the middle for more separation). I’ll leave it wet to taste and a very short pre-delay or none at all.

Then I’ll send a more traditional room or hall to the middle instrument buss. Wet, decay and usually no pre-delay.

I treat the Vox to its own verb bus. Generous pre-delay then decay, and wet/dry to taste.

And I send a plate verb to the drums for some crackle in the cymbals and snare.

I may experiment sending two verbs to one bus group.

I will then solo the reverb buses and use subtractive eq on each verb to do what I can to diminish frequency crossover.

Keep in mind it’s all a work in progress!!! Happy mixing!

Top
#456952 - 02/11/18 07:28 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5664
Remember that reverb is cumulative. What's in the track gets added to the buss, gets added to the master and if you're not careful you end up with mud soup. I've heard mixes where nothing is very well defined due to all the verb....especially when you verb the bass.

Personally, my individual tracks are all dry as a bone in the Mojave desert at 3pm on a sunny day. I place a very light verb in the buss for the guitars if they have their own buss which is not common, a light verb on the vocal buss which is common, and then another very light verb on the master. Often I will end up shutting some of those off and relying on just the master with a touch of light verb. Dark plate, light plate, but nothing too obvious.

For staging, I simply use the panning of the instruments to create width and the levels to create depth. Louder in the mix is closer, and quieter in the mix is more to the back.

Often if you have one instrument with a noticeable reverb or a vocal with reverb and leave everything else dry, the listener will still think there's reverb on everything. In recent mixes, I tend to stay on the dryer side of the equation. Unless you're using reverb for a specific purpose, it's kinda like compression in my book.... yes, you want it there.... no, you don't really want it to be obvious.

my opinion.


Edited by Guitarhacker (02/11/18 07:29 AM)
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music

Top
#456995 - 02/11/18 10:46 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1435
Thank you Herb. I'm glad that you reminded me that I left off a very important aspect to the art of reverb. That reverb is decibel cumulative. That is to say every decibel of reverb adds to the overall decibel level of the track that you put it on. So when you increase or decrease the send level to the reverb bus it affects the level of that track in the mix. So as you add reverb you may have to lower the track level.

As to working with reverb in a song it's like any aspect of mixing. You have to practice. A lot. I took my cues from studying Dave Pensado on his "Into The Lair" series. He uses a ton of reverb in his mixes. It just doesn't sound overly wet because of how he handles the decays and how he eq's the frequencies and on and on.

There is more than just depth perception that can be achieved with reverb and slap-back and delays.

Experiment and have fun!

Top
#457029 - 02/11/18 12:43 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13203
Loc: Australia
Lawrence,

It's a very interesting concept that you are playing with.

How I interpret what you are trying to do is to add upstage/downstage depth to a mix in addition to the left/right effect of panning. This would create a 2-D positioning of musicians on the stage.

Used with subtlety, this could be an excellent way of enhancing a production.

You could probably also try adding tiny amounts of audio delay to each location too. For example, if a listener is in the audience, it will take 3 or 4 less milliseconds for the sound of an instrument at the front of the stage to reach the listener's ears than an instrument at the back of the stage. While such effects are imperceptible individually, their contribution to an 'overall' sound impression could be quite effective.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#457188 - 02/12/18 01:59 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1435
Yes Noel that is exactly what I'm talking about. One of the best parts about experimenting with these techniques is simply the fun in playing around with new approaches. Also your ear is becoming more acute, more aware.

Top
#457592 - 02/14/18 03:39 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18802
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Curious, what reverb are you using to get this type of control?

I have my faves, but always like to hear from others.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#457728 - 02/15/18 01:50 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: rharv]
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1435
Originally Posted By: rharv
Curious, what reverb are you using to get this type of control?

I have my faves, but always like to hear from others.


After years of using many free reverbs I broke down and bought FabFilter's Pro R. It really works for me. It has separate eqs for the reverb and the decay. Very useful control to keep the reverb from washing out everything and still having a solid reverb footprint present.

Top
#458388 - 02/20/18 07:58 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 5764
Loc: GA USA
Great info Lawrence!

J&B
_________________________
Never grow up...it's a trap.
J&B SoundCloud Sampler
J&B YouTube Sampler
J&B Website

Top
#458943 - 02/23/18 03:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: Janice & Bud]
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1435
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Great info Lawrence!

J&B
Thanks J&B!

Top
#459657 - 02/28/18 01:55 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Soundstage Separation via reverb [Re: gruverider]
Kent - PG Music Online   content
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 859
Pro-R is fantastic, I like pretty much everything FabFilter makes (I use Pro-Q on pretty much every track).

I'm also a big fan of Soundtoys, their Little Plate reverb is one of my go-tos, and is very affordable.

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

Top


PG Music News
Tutorials - How to Install Your Band-in-a-Box® for Mac Hard Drive

When you have your Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac UltraPAK shipped to you on a portable hard drive, there are a few different options for installation. We go over these 3 options with our latest video series:

Option 1: Run Band-in-a-Box® directly from the USB drive only: click here to view.

Option 2: Install Band-in-a-Box® on your computer hard drive, but leave the RealTracks & RealDrums on the USB hard drive: click here to view.

Option 3: Install Band-in-a-Box® and the RealTracks & RealDrums on your computer hard drive: click here to view.

Check out all our Band-in-a-Box for Mac videos here.

Video - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets for Band-in-a-Box® for Mac

Have you purchased your Band-in-a-Box® package, and want to make sure you're downloading and installing the RealTracks Sets correctly?

Well, we've created just the tutorial video you're looking for! Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac® - Downloading and Installing RealTracks Sets.

Video link:
www.pgmusic.com/?vid=QndXu8H_IwM

Thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 - Mac Power Users Discussion

David Sparks and Katie Floyd discuss a variety of topics in their recent episide of Mac Power Users: https://www.relay.fm/mpu/432 - listen all the way through (and laugh along with them - it was a very entertaining episode!), or jump to 1:37:40 where David shares his thoughts on Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Mac!

Thank you David and Katie!

Polish New Features Video for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows

Our Polish Distributor, Sound Station, has finished their Band-in-a-Box 2018 New Features summary video (in Polish!) - click here to watch.

We hope all our Polish Band-in-a-Box users find this video helpful - thank you Sound Station!

YouTube Find - Love it (with Band-in-a-Box 2018)

YouTube channel EmtpyHallToones uploaded a video of their guitar performance using Band-in-a-Box backing tracks!

Click here to watch.

Get to Know the 202 NEW RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box® 2018!

We released 202 NEW RealTracks with Band-in-a-Box® 2018! Learn more about these new RealTracks when you watch our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 - 202 NEW RealTracks.

These new RealTracks (in Sets 278-300) are included in every Band-in-a-Box® 2018 UltraPAK, Audiophile Edition, or the PlusPAK upgrade - the Mac packages are on sale until June 30th!

Learn even more about the new RealTracks and listen to demos here.

Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks Tutorial Video for Mac

With Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Mac®, we've introduced Vocal "Oohs" and "Aahs" RealTracks. This video shows you the different ways you can use these versatile new RealTracks.

Video link: www.pgmusic.com/?vid=zkO-AtAPv4g

You can also listen to demos of RealTracks Set 278: Shiny Vocal Oohs & Aahs here.

This RealTracks Set is available for just $29, and is also included in RealPAK 14: Country, and the Band-in-a-Box® UltraPAK, Audiophile, or 2018 PlusPAK Upgrade.

Forum Stats
27616 Members
50 Forums
52226 Topics
432338 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
donbaxter, Jose-Luis-NZ, Cipher, BillyP, fleahead

27616 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Icelander 195
Noel96 170
David Snyder 146
Janice & Bud 142
rsdean 115
Deryk - PG Music 113
Pipeline 110
Scott C 98
eddie1261 - gone 97
MarioD 94
Today's Birthdays
drleroyhenry, georgeptingley, Russell