Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831

I'm experimenting with separating the soundstage by using different reverbs on the different areas of the soundstage.

The wetter the verb the further back
The less pre-delay the further back
The more decay the further back

If these are true (and I think I got it right) Then how can I create separation of the soundstage through depth with reverb?

My current experiment is to send all my panned instruments to one bus and all my slightly panned and middle instruments to another bus (not including bass and drums).

I like a bit of spring-like verb on guitars and because I usually have electric guitars panned, I’m sending a short decay spring-like verb to the panned bus (I may add a channel tool and subtract a few decibels from the middle for more separation). I’ll leave it wet to taste and a very short pre-delay or none at all.

Then I’ll send a more traditional room or hall to the middle instrument buss. Wet, decay and usually no pre-delay.

I treat the Vox to its own verb bus. Generous pre-delay then decay, and wet/dry to taste.

And I send a plate verb to the drums for some crackle in the cymbals and snare.

I may experiment sending two verbs to one bus group.

I will then solo the reverb buses and use subtractive eq on each verb to do what I can to diminish frequency crossover.

Keep in mind it’s all a work in progress!!! Happy mixing!

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Remember that reverb is cumulative. What's in the track gets added to the buss, gets added to the master and if you're not careful you end up with mud soup. I've heard mixes where nothing is very well defined due to all the verb....especially when you verb the bass.

Personally, my individual tracks are all dry as a bone in the Mojave desert at 3pm on a sunny day. I place a very light verb in the buss for the guitars if they have their own buss which is not common, a light verb on the vocal buss which is common, and then another very light verb on the master. Often I will end up shutting some of those off and relying on just the master with a touch of light verb. Dark plate, light plate, but nothing too obvious.

For staging, I simply use the panning of the instruments to create width and the levels to create depth. Louder in the mix is closer, and quieter in the mix is more to the back.

Often if you have one instrument with a noticeable reverb or a vocal with reverb and leave everything else dry, the listener will still think there's reverb on everything. In recent mixes, I tend to stay on the dryer side of the equation. Unless you're using reverb for a specific purpose, it's kinda like compression in my book.... yes, you want it there.... no, you don't really want it to be obvious.

my opinion.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/11/18 05:29 AM.

You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Thank you Herb. I'm glad that you reminded me that I left off a very important aspect to the art of reverb. That reverb is decibel cumulative. That is to say every decibel of reverb adds to the overall decibel level of the track that you put it on. So when you increase or decrease the send level to the reverb bus it affects the level of that track in the mix. So as you add reverb you may have to lower the track level.

As to working with reverb in a song it's like any aspect of mixing. You have to practice. A lot. I took my cues from studying Dave Pensado on his "Into The Lair" series. He uses a ton of reverb in his mixes. It just doesn't sound overly wet because of how he handles the decays and how he eq's the frequencies and on and on.

There is more than just depth perception that can be achieved with reverb and slap-back and delays.

Experiment and have fun!

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Lawrence,

It's a very interesting concept that you are playing with.

How I interpret what you are trying to do is to add upstage/downstage depth to a mix in addition to the left/right effect of panning. This would create a 2-D positioning of musicians on the stage.

Used with subtlety, this could be an excellent way of enhancing a production.

You could probably also try adding tiny amounts of audio delay to each location too. For example, if a listener is in the audience, it will take 3 or 4 less milliseconds for the sound of an instrument at the front of the stage to reach the listener's ears than an instrument at the back of the stage. While such effects are imperceptible individually, their contribution to an 'overall' sound impression could be quite effective.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Yes Noel that is exactly what I'm talking about. One of the best parts about experimenting with these techniques is simply the fun in playing around with new approaches. Also your ear is becoming more acute, more aware.

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Curious, what reverb are you using to get this type of control?

I have my faves, but always like to hear from others.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Originally Posted By: rharv
Curious, what reverb are you using to get this type of control?

I have my faves, but always like to hear from others.


After years of using many free reverbs I broke down and bought FabFilter's Pro R. It really works for me. It has separate eqs for the reverb and the decay. Very useful control to keep the reverb from washing out everything and still having a solid reverb footprint present.

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,978
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,978
Great info Lawrence!

J&B

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,831
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Great info Lawrence!

J&B
Thanks J&B!

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,382
K
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
K
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,382
Pro-R is fantastic, I like pretty much everything FabFilter makes (I use Pro-Q on pretty much every track).

I'm also a big fan of Soundtoys, their Little Plate reverb is one of my go-tos, and is very affordable.

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,396
Posts732,506
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz
38,441 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 116
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5