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#460207 - 03/03/18 12:12 PM [Off-Topic] Speaking of red-headed stepchildren…
Ryszard Offline
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Seems like it is fashionable to hate certain segments of the music business. Right now Behringer, a manufacturer of economical music electronics, is the target of much venom. (In the 70s and 80s it was Peavey.)

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.” (Come to think of it, I have gotten that here about Master Writer, a songwriting aid.)

Why have people got to be like that?

Okay, my bourbon-fueled philosophical musing is at an end… cool

Richard
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#460210 - 03/03/18 12:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ryszard

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.”

Maybe for some. But, the band always turns up on time. The drummer keeps tempo nicely and never plays over the top of the others. He also uses brushes when he's supposed to and only changes over the sticks when you actually want him to. And the bass player is never too loud and never loses his place on the chart while he's too busy checking for pretty talent on the audience. Is it cheating to get that? Nah.
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#460234 - 03/03/18 01:58 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
ZUrlocker Offline
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In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history. I'm not saying that reputation is deserved today, but it's something they occasionally have to overcome. And I think there's also a view among synth players (like guitar players) that the original designs from the early period (think 50's designs, 60s guitars from Fender, Gibson) are the only way to do things and anyone who tries to do something modern or derivative is misguided or worse.

Reminds me of Monty Python's "4 yorkshiremen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE
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#460246 - 03/03/18 02:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Online   content
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I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?
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#460249 - 03/03/18 02:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
MarioD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?



I have a Behringer Eurorack mixer and a headphone amplified hub that I have had for a number of years now and both work perfectly.

Ah lets not mention newer Gibson's ultra expensive and poorly made guitars.
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#460250 - 03/03/18 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
90 dB Offline
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"In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history."


No, their reputation was earned by ripping off other people's designs.




"In June 1997, Mackie accused Behringer of trademark and trade dress infringement, and brought suit seeking $327M in damages[14][18] but such claims were later rejected by the court. In their suit, Mackie said that Behringer had a history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.[19] The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]

In 2005, Roland Corporation sued to enforce Roland's trade dress, trademark, and other intellectual property rights with regard to Behringer's recently released guitar pedals.[23] The two companies came to a confidential settlement in 2006 after Behringer changed their designs.[24]"



Regards,


Bob




Edited by 90 dB (03/03/18 02:34 PM)
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#460265 - 03/03/18 05:25 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: 90 dB]
Ryszard Offline
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Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.
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#460267 - 03/03/18 05:36 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
90 dB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ryszard
Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.





"The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]"



That speaks to the degree of dislike in the Pro Sound community. Don't believe me. Go ask Greg Mackie. grin



Regards,


Bob
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#460272 - 03/03/18 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Matt Finley Online   content
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I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.
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#460320 - 03/04/18 03:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.


I agree. I worked with a band and now a Church that had X32's as well as owned a Behringer X32 digital mixer and it is an awesome mixer and worked flawlessly.
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#460343 - 03/04/18 05:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Notes Norton Offline
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I've never owned a Behringer product, but a friend of mine has one. He plays at the same place that we do once a week, he has a mixer and powered speaeker. I've got to hear him, and haven't noticed any problems from the audience location, and I've never heard him complain about it.

I remember when musicians all dissed Peavey the same way. I've had some Peavey gear and I think it was all worth the money I spent for it.

Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#460358 - 03/04/18 06:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Notes Norton]
MarioD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
.....................
Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes


Although I use auto-tune I agree with you. I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#460379 - 03/04/18 08:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: MarioD]
jazzmammal Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob
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#460384 - 03/04/18 09:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: jazzmammal]
MarioD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob


Since I don't keep up with rap/hip-hop I didn't know that. Thanx for setting the records straight.
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#460899 - 03/06/18 03:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
HearToLearn Offline
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Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1598
Loc: Midwest
I liken it to just about anything that has done well. All of the companies mentioned seemed to get their worst reputation when they were REALLY growing.

Just like Nickelback, Britney Spears, McDonalds, Walmart. There seems to be a lot of haters...yet they are selling millions and billions anyway. Even Amway. I had to look it up...8 almost 9 billion last year. REALLY? Wow! They don't care that I didn't buy anything from them. They are too busy succeeding without me! lol

Rock on Behringer!
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