PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Put stuff out even if it is not perfect

This is an interesting video from Graham of The Recording Revolution. Reading the comments there are a lot of differing opinions on his third point which is to put stuff out even if it is not perfect. I would love to hear your POV on this.

One item he states is absolutely correct:

9:05
"You can't create polished amazing records or videos that are full blown production every day or every week or every month"

Yes. But ask yourself the question: 'Do you have to'?

After that, we lose the plot entirely:
9:13:
"So instead, you need to Embrace Imperfection". "Even your records or albums... just put it out there even if it's not perfect"

Huh??? Did I understand that correctly????

Apparently, quantity is paramount and quality really doesn't matter so much to Graham, so neither should it matter to you too.

Why do you have to do that? There's already too much low quality junk out there without needing to add anything more to the garbage pile. We don't need to be bombarded with more low quality junk, just because someone said it's OK.

What's wrong with striving to deliver the best you can?

That kind of 'near enough is OK' attitude is just absolute nonsense. Shame on the author for ever suggesting it. YMMV, but mine certainly doesn't.

I've watched Graham's videos before and they are usually very helpful. He brings up a great point in this one about having to constantly provide new content for your fan base. Especially with some of the social media algorithms you need to have new content for your followers to interact with on a regular basis or your stuff will get lost in the mix.

That being said... He is correct you can't put perfect stuff out all the time.

Now, I don't believe he is saying to put out just anything or a bunch of bad music but instead to get it as good as you can and then get it out there. Ive seen in previous videos from Graham where he says to get the mix as good as you can. Then take a day off and go back to listen again while taking notes of things that need to be fixed. Fix them and be done. Sure you may here other things afterwards that you may not be happy with but if you try to make it perfect you will never be finished and never get it out there for people to hear.

So in short, make the best music/content that you can and get it out there for people to hear even if it's not perfect.

Another point he make here that I feel is important to bring up in this conversation is that it is not just about creating music for fans anymore you have to create content. One of the biggest things on the internet today is video. Yes we are musicians and can create great music especially us here on this forum using BIAB, but maybe we are not as skilled at creating videos. Well dont let that hold you back from trying. Make a music video or a lyric video to go with your song and put it out there even if it isn't perfect.

I'm getting ready to make a few music videos soon. Maybe I'll do a tutorial with it of how to make a music video and post it here in the forums. Who would be interested in seeing this kind of stuff?

I agree with this 100%. You can get way too OCD about music and start making it sound TOO polished where it will turn people off. It needs to sound sincere--real.

Also, it will freeze your artistic impulse if you worry about stuff too much, or how you might think people will react. Just let it flow. Get it out. Learn and grow.

The only people who want you to stop and spend $19,000 on your albums are people who own studios. And they HATE Band in a Box. And they will be more than happy to tell you so.

There are a few simple things I have learned about not mastering your music too loud I shared on another thread on "Music Making it to Music Supervisors" but the bares bones of making your music ready for the industry are simple. Less is more.

I have put out about 5 albums in the past two years. Would I remix a lot of the stuff now? Of course. Do I care? No.

Why?

Because if I had not written those songs and put them out I would not have written the 40 or so songs I have written over the past two months, 20 of which have gone to music supervisors in the past week.

Just be yourself, have fun, have a blast in fact, keep cranking, and follow the basics. Keep it simple and don't use too many presets that will make it a brick and you will be cool.

David you have such a talent at writing, singing, playing and producing good songs, and you have the same talent at giving good advice and interpretations to the various methods of presenting songs. Your comments are songs themselves.

Here's where I will toss my monkey wrench in and see if you would add a caveat.

How about if going back and remixing those 5 albums would result in 10,000 more units sold per album? Would you do it then?

This video from Graham was his concept personified. He cares more about how many videos he puts out that how clearly and concisely he expresses himself and communicates his point. Why? Because like all of these "youtube is how I make money" people, all that matters is views.

Remember one thing about him. He came up in the 90s. Video was already kind. The world was online. By the time he started working in music, I was over 40. He is from the culture that says "I will toss out these videos and my followers will watch them and youtube will give me money. And I sat at a desk in my office the whole time. It has to be better than a job, right?" kind of people.

Also of note is that he has never produced anybody you have ever heard of. He records a lot of Christian bands that do nothing more than play in their church and want someone to record THE song that they wrote.

There was a video he did a long time back refuting the merits of analog summing, saying "You can make just as good a mix without it." When pressed further he admitted he had never tried it. I suspect that the point of that piece was to stress that you can be cheap and not have to buy any outboard gear. I myself stay with digital summing (everything done in the DAW) for that reason. I am so tight I squeak. The point of this paragraph is that a statement like he made, about something he has never tried, is the same as "This is the right way because it's how I do it."

As far as "more" vs "good", I disagree. One local guy here put out a Cd with 5 songs on it. And 5 months later he out out another with 5 more. Why not wait and put out all 10? Why pay twice for duplication and art work? We had a good laugh when he emailed me "Hey. Buy my new CD." and I emailed back "You didn't put out a CD. You put out a sampler that is little more than your band jamming between serious recording sessions." I want to hear professional, polished, perfect....

Now, to argue with myself about that point, say this. If your perception is that you will lose people if you don't give them a song a month so you put out demos so they can hear the new songs, fine. But don't put those demos out as is when you actually release the CD. A demo is exactly that, a demonstration recording of what the finished product will sound like after you "really" record it.

I remember when Springsteen put out one of his cookie cutter albums (I think it was Nebraska) and everybody jumped on the cliche bandwagon and told me how "cool" it was that he did the whole thing on 4 track. And my reply was "And it sounds like it. It's apiece of crap." That never sits well with the "cultist" level fans who would buy his stuff if it contained flatulence during the quiet passages, but it's the truth. I like The Boss when he was a musician. As soon as he decided to become a poet he lost me. There's already been a Bob Dylan. Leave it alone.

So to sum up, I disagree with Graham on this one but this attitude toward music as a business is the result of him being born in the internet world. He is 2 generations after the baby boomers and the first version of a millennial who expects the world to hand him a living for very little effort. Blog posts, 5 minute videos.... that is worth $750,000 a year? And remember, he has no high profile performers on his production resume. It's just a different world now.

All very interesting observations. Keep them coming. It is so enlightening hearing everyone's differing opinions.

I read a Michael Cain biography a while back and was astounded to learn just how prolific this guy is and even more astounded to read about the quantity of really crummy movies that he has been a part of. His logic for choosing these roles was purely money based and when he was questioned whether he worried about appearing in all these rubbish movies and whether it would tarnish his reputation as a brilliant actor, he said that why would he worry because "nobody would see the bad ones".

You never really know what is going to work and what is not but if you never put anything out then you will never know.

I have never listened to Bruce Springsteen's "Nebraska" but I sure have heck heard "Born to Run" and I think he is brilliant...

For his generation it is probably about right. The big users of the media and net are all in a hurry to be able to show their friends something new. And all the tech and kit is available to keep up that kind of lifestyle enhancing music.

Social media already has people believing they are a brand bolstered human.

Maybe such listeners don't demand HiFi, listening to music via a phone speaker.

So it sounds like a generational yawp.

I think he WAS brilliant, Joanne. Up to "The River" he wrote much better than he has since. Of course this is just my opinion, but he started to write "I need to sell some units" songs and everything kind of blended into "the gray" for me. I think Clarence Clemons was way overrated and had he played with anybody but Springsteen he would be just another decent sax player who had one tone and no finesse. Same for Nils Lofgren and Steve Van Zandt. Neither of them are particularly hot guitar players, but they played with Springsteen, so they MUST be good.

Many people tend to take their admiration for artists to a level where ANYTHING they do is automatically great. I am not like that. I know people who have "their band" and everybody else is hackneyed amateurs in their mind. Whether it is Springsteen, Genesis, Queen, Meatloaf... that cultist level fan believes their hero can do no wrong. My criteria is that if they have more songs that I DO like than songs I DON'T like, they are okay with me.

And this is kind of on topic because of my opinion that Springsteen turned out quantity without regard for quality knowing that the sheep level fans will buy whatever he puts out.

Sure Eddie,

If I thought it would be worth 100,000 more units sold who wouldn't?

I think the point I agree with is don't be blocked by fear and just forge ahead and keep writing fearlessly and put stuff out. Do the BEST YOU CAN but don't be afraid. Don't be timid. Stay away from critics. There are so many critics out there who can't play a d..... thing. Who needs 'em? There are so many song evaluations that are pure crap. Who needs 'em? I am on the side of the brave is all I am saying. Did Bob Dylan give a flyin' flip about what anyone thought of his voice? No, he just did it. So any fool would remix an album if they thought it would sell more. I think the point is don't suffer from paralysis by analysis. Don't be afraid of what people might say. Just create for God's sake and get the train rolling. If you want to remix later then do it, fine. But keep moving. Do the best you can in the moment and keep moving. Isn't that the frickin' point here?

I wonder if anyone has any idea how many BAD songs the Beatles wrong. There are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of them.

What you hear is the good stuff.

Keep moving.

All valid points there Mr Snyder!

The Beatles reference made me smile because the other side of that sword is I wonder how many people are aware of the volume of songs Lennon and McCartney wrote that bands other than the Beatles recorded. There are a lot of them that people like you and me may know about but not the average listener because the composer's name is in tiny print under the song title. Peter and Gordon may not have even had a career without Lennon and McCartney, and that happened because of Peter Asher's sister and her involvement with McCartney.

Badfinger, Billy J Kramer, Gerry and the Pacemakers.... Likely be unknown names had they not recorded L&M songs. The list is staggering.

A few random thoughts...

It begs the question of what the hell is perfect?

Maybe it’s something like David alluded to with all the soul polished out. Or maybe “perfection” is never a collective perspective - to greater and lesser degrees it’s different in the minds of the evaluators.

For some vocal perfection seems to be perfect notes that follow the bouncing ball but for others it’s bending the notes all over the place.

As I’ve said to often mixing is never finished just abandoned.

Perhaps this is why my favorite albums tend toward live recordings.

Ole phart two cents worth.

Bud

And to Eddie's point about the Beatles and Springsteen, let me go back to Robert Zimmerman again for a moment.

If he had not gone out there with his nasal voice and mediocre guitar skills, there would be no:

Bruce Springsteen
Tom Petty
Neil Young
Joni Mitchell
Robbie Robertson
Rickie Lee Jones
........ x 1,000,000

The list is staggering. Feel free to add it it. Without him all we would have had is Beatles clones and Elvis clones.

My favorite moment in radio hands down is when the album "Infidels" came out during the heyday of Duran Duran and Boy George.

The announcer said:

"Well, Bob Dylan has a new album out, and it's pretty obvious that he has been totally oblivious to what's been happening in music the past 10 years. But that's why I love him."

And he dropped the needle:

Standing on the water
casting your bread
while the eyes of the idol
with the iron head
are glowing
Distant ships sailing
into the mist
you were born with a snake in both of your fists
while a hurricane was blowing.."


Yeah that's why I love him too.

Eddie, I think you nailed it when you suggested it's all really about exposure for the YouTube presenter. Make plenty of YT videos that people will subscribe to. Clearly the content of some of these videos 'embraces imperfection'.

I'm down with David regarding Dylan as an example of the power of not so perfect. I remember the exact moment I first heard him in a college dorm in 1964 and he's been part of my musical journey ever since. And Janice's but not so long as she was seven years old in 1964

Bud

I think if you look at it from the perspective of practice, it's a good idea. This is true with any art form, whether it's writing, drawing, painting, sculpting, making music, etc. So long as you are working on something, you're working towards honing your craft.

I don't know about you guys, but for me personally I spend probably about 90% of my year with artist block. If I didn't push myself to finish every piece, I often times wonder what I would finish.

Even if you don't like something, finish it. Even if it's not what you expected it to be, or if it's not perfect to you, or doesn't entirely match what you had envisioned -- finish it.

Mix and master it if you want to, or don't. You can use it as a learning tool for yourself moving forward. You grow with each piece you create, so why stop that growth just because the song isn't your best?

It's ultimately up to you if you decide to put one of those pieces on an album, or release it to the public, but you should always finish your projects, no matter how hard or how much you dislike them in that moment.

Fighting through those moments is what helps me break through my artist block, and then the inspiration just keeps on flowing.

It has its merits, for sure.

Ember hit the nail on the head and drove it home. Publish something is better than publishing nothing. At least it's progress.

Look at my SoundCloud or SoundClick accounts, nothing new for a loooooong time. It's not writer's block because I mostly do covers. But lately it has been difficult for me to get anything finished. Lots of works in progress but nothing's progressing.

Sometimes you need to push yourself by creating deadlines or better yet have someone interested enough in your work that they will push you to complete it. 'Git 'er done before you get done.

Although I'm not a great fan of quantity over quality it all comes down to your personal talents and possibilities. For some folk things are just right, others will turn their noses up at it. If all were perfect, there would have been no rock and roll, no blues, no folk and definitely no punk, only classical music.
You can go overboard looking for the perfect track, I have ruined more songs trying to meet the standards set by the pros than I care to remember.
Just like the patina on an old guitar, it's the imperfections that bring it to life. As Leonard Cohen so aptly put, "There are cracks in everything, that's how the light gets in."

The reference to Bob Dylan is a good one! Certainly his voice and guitar playing is not great and he put out some stuff that I would consider half baked in terms of today's standards.

Blowin' in the wind reportedly took 10 minutes to write (the melody is lifted straight from a public domain song). Dylan went straight out and performed the song at a local folk club but bungled up all the lyrics because he couldn't read his own hand writing. The point is that you never really know what is going to take off and what isn't. And if it doesn't take off then so what? Nobody is likely to hear it anyway.

If you produce stuff to the very best of your ability at the time and continue to learn then I think you will win by continually producing and publishing, producing and publishing.

Yeah, I agree with your comments. I personally think that this is what makes him so good! The imperfections give the listener a sense of equality, unlike others. I will prefer someone to whom I can actually relate, instead of all the fake, perfect and superficial ones. Life is not perfect neither is one's life, they all have to stop portraying it that way!

Dylan is of a different place in time. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely admire what he has has delivered. He is more poetic than musical though. However, we surely can't believe that if it worked for Dylan, then it's alright to use the same approach and 40+ years later it will still be OK for everyone else too.

The inference from Graham's video is that a music writer in this century should be prepared to just chuck it out there, imperfections and all, because they shouldn't be bothered to spend the time to improve it to the best of their ability. Don't worry about the quality, as long as there is regular quantity, you fans will continue to savor the moments.

We're not talking George Martin or Quincy Jones here. How does this one person dictate 'The New Rules Of the Music Industry'? What absolute nonsense.

Look at it from another approach:

A car manufacturer makes fantastic looking sporty new cars. The manufacturer churns them out in masses - because to them, quantity is more important. Management decide they don't have to pay much attention to quality, everyone will buy them because they produce them cheaply in great numbers. They're always available. When the customer drives them, they don't handle well, the seats are uncomfortable and the air conditioning doesn't work. The manufacturer could have spent time improving the model but just expected the masses to love their cars because they got them to the market quickly. What did the manufacturer do? The manufacturer just embraced imperfection.

You are unwell, and go to the doctor. He can't be bothered diagnosing your ailment too carefully and has a heap of patients in the waiting room, so just gives you a quick checkup and tells you to take two days off work and rest. What did that doctor do? He just Embraced Imperfection.

Am I singing Graham's latest song?

Any professional should strive to deliver the best they can.

That self-promoting YouTube video is just encouraging the music industry that it's OK to deliver junk.

FWIW - Many times I will take a first recording even if it has a wort or two over one that has been polished to a dull track. I'll take emotion over perfection most of the time. YMMV

Nobody here is talking about Bob Dylan. We are talking about Joe Smith (John's brother). Every time a discussion like this comes up people start pointing to firmly established stars as their example. That is NOT apples to apples.

Much the same way I used to have people tell me, after saying "I'm too old for this stuff", that Paul McCartney is in his 70s. Well, hurrah for Paul. If your believe your metaphor connecting one of the most famous songwriters and performers in the history of songwriters and performers to some shlub in Cleveland that nobody has ever heard of and doesn't care about, then it holds water. McCartney was more famous by age 22 than I ever dreamed of being.

So, on topic, Dylan could release a CD of nursery rhyme covers and the Dylan cultists would buy millions of copies. He doesn't HAVE to impress anybody anymore. And you can take ANY major star and put their name in that statement. "They" are not relevant to "us". Compare THIS fat old short guy in Ohio to other fat old short guys. Doesn't it follow that for THIS fat old short guy to sell more units than the other fat old short guys, THIS fat old short guy has to write better songs and perform them better than the other fat old short guys? Turning out half finished work blends me into the gray when I need to be shimmering white to get attention.

And for the record, I don't own even one Dylan album. I am not that great a fan. I recognize, but not idolize, his writing. Success is usually relative to the time in which it was achieved. This is 2018.

Eddie,

Someone here IS talking about Bob Dylan.

It is ME. I talked about him. Do you not read it?

And for another thing, at one time he was Joe Smith.

So try and stay on track dude before you go on another cranky rampage.

And for another thing, Clarence Clemons put down the best sax solo ever recorded in rock history. Says who? Me. And Bruce. That's who.

Say anything else or argue anymore about that and I will show up at your house with a truck full of drunken rednecks who like Bruce. They don't fight clean.

Now that we have that out of the way, when are we going to record our next song Eddie?

It has been like 4 weeks. Do you have writer's block or something?

Yes, it's an excellent book: Michael Caine - Acting in Film: An Actor's Take on Movie Making. It made me re-think about him as an actor, and acknowledge that at the end of the day, he - like everyone else - is just trying to make a living.

Graham's point is that you're now required to be self-marketing, and the current market demands that artists keep bored consumers engaged by constantly providing fresh content.

You're no longer a musician first - you're a brand, and the content that you provide is what creates loyalty. This loyalty can be monetized once you've got something that you want to promote, such as an album to sell, or a concert to attend.

What he's suggesting is considering using your unfinished and unpolished material as content to provide in creating your brand.

This means that you can share stuff that's not yet finished, or release partial songs. You can release singles instead of waiting for the album to be completed.

What this gives you is a larger stream of content to provide to your audience. The beauty of this approach is that you turn existing content (rough mixes, incomplete songs) into new content.

Got a video of the band rehearsing? A rough version of your song with temporary lyrics? A rough mix of a song? All of these are brand-building content.

At the end of the day, you can still release a polished, finished product. But in the mean time, you've kept your bored, content-hungry consumers happy, attentive, and engaged. Loyal customers spend money on your products.

He also gives the advice of not spending time making improvements that - sorry to say - no one is going to hear. Obvious benefits include actually getting things done, and moving on to new things so you get better.

Really, I don't see anything provocative here.

The point about Dylan is that he is not an up and comer who needs to care about how his latest is received. Anything he does after 50 years is going to sell

And what I am working on right now, trust me, you want NO part of this monumental piece of crap!! LOL!

The goal for 2018 was to write songs of different styles that I have never done with RB before. There was the jazz tune, before that the big band piece, there is a disco song in progress, and a trance/industrial. There will also be reggae at some point.

When I sit down anymore I have to remind myself "NOT country on this one." I am also trying to write a piece with movements like a true symphony. If Jimmy Webb can do it, so can I.

After all of this very entertaining group of posts, when I read about someone basically saying, "Don't worry about perfection just get it out there", what he means is perfect to YOU not to anyone else.

That is the big issue with creative people. We all can come up with something decent, record, mix, master and it's done. Then we listen to it. And again, and again and every time we listen we hear something. Oh crap, I should have done this, that or whatever.

That's when you make the fatal mistake: You go in and start changing it. DON'T DO THAT.

That's what I think Graham means when he says don't worry about making it perfect.

Bob

I agree with this sentiment as well. We already know that music is subjective. That is why there are so many genres out there. Just because we find something imperfect or flawed in our own content doesn't mean someone else will see the same issues as we do.

I didn't have the time to read all the posts.... looks like a controversial topic.

My POV is simple.

It doesn't have to be perfect, but you do need to have tuned instruments and sing in tune.


And the level of perfection depends greatly on what you're planning to do with it.

Ok,

I am going to agree with Bob on this. And of course to Herb's point, we should tune our guitars. And try and sing on pitch IF we can.

BUT--I learned a lesson on this a long time ago. I wrote a certain song and some people said "Man, that gave me goosebumps. It was kind of lo fi, and it wasn't by the book, but dang, it was strong."

Then a group of song evaluators had a long list of things I needed to do and change. I did it. Finally, after about 11 versions they said it was "professional" now. I let my friends listen to it.

They said: "Man, they took a beautiful thing and turned it into garbage."

They were right. I couldn't live with myself until I deleted the professional version and went back to the very first one where I sounded like I meant it.

Sometimes sounding like you mean it is everything, and sometimes you can fiddle around with stuff WAY too much.

So if that is what Bob is saying, I say, yeah.

If you can sing in tune and you can accompany yourself on an acoustic (in tune) instrument to an acceptable level and you are sincere about what you are delivering, then (most) people will love it. So why not put it out for the world to enjoy even if it is not perfect.

Depends on your goals. If you are trying to break into music as a career or maintain one you should avoid releasing less than perfect work unless you have an angle. For example, John Prine released his original rough recordings in a collection but he waited 40 years to do so! Had he released those instead of the haybale album I suspect it might have limited his ultimate success.

Of course, on the practical side, acknowledging that none of us has a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a Prine level success story, maybe just shoveling it out there is just fine! If almost no one is listening I guess the quality is not much of an issue.

Maybe the real trick is doing high quality AND sounding like you mean it!

video is blocked on copyright grounds.

Click on the title to take you to her YouTube video... Click on her name for more videos... they are not only quite impressive but also seem to fit nicely with the subject of this thread... but then she's just a kid doing her thing... perhaps she doesn't know any better

You can also get there by clicking this link
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8l-j5VJkouBxR5knNd7Ewg/videos

What a great idea for a thread, JoAnne. Plainly, the video talk has touched a lot of hearts. Retired people like me don't think so much in terms of branding, or even business; but i can say, getting out there and playing in front of people, amusing them, touching their hearts, is a time tested "strategy."
With that, please let me briefly share an idea. We all know that in film, now video, so much effort went into clarity, or perfection, I mean be it wide screen 70mm CinemaScope or 1081 high resolution. Especially, big screen theater. Ever wonder why? It's because the object was to create a reality bigger than life, a striking and lasting impression. Walt Disney with his cartoons --- blues bluer than blue, reds redder than red. Genius.
Before I drifted away from bothering with it,, I saw Anthony Hopkins in "Silence of the Lambs." I can still see that crazy SOB, glaring through the bars.
Now, John is right, Everything has changed. We are looking for something else. Super perfection is not enough. Drama perfected is melo drama -- overdone.
How does this relate to music? Well, we listened to the Beatles on high fidelity stereo, and were stunned. Look at the super productions today....how many dancers, how many flashing lights, how much skin, I mean, what does it take?
Me, I am in the direction of creating a little Vimeo channel of PD Christian that could be an oasis in the hectic world of content. I have the time, but can't slow down long enough to get it done. (Too connected!)

I'm still hoping somebody will jump in with an operational definition of perfect.

We do adhere to the adage that our best product is not achieved when there is nothing left to add but rather when there is nothing left to take away.

Also simply being at one with what you do. Not seen to be at odds and struggling beyond yourself.

90dB can introduce you to a tool that will make you perfect!

Since you mentioned it.....


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We are straying just a tiny bit from Cochran's original video. His underlying current was "Give them a lot of stuff so they don't forget your name. Keep your name in their faces as much as possible so they don't forget your name." That is what "build your brand" is all about. That concept has been the same since we were all young aspiring musicians. Overall though, isn't that kind of insecure? Should you really be concerned that people won't remember you unless you plaster the web with your name and face?

Isn't another way of not being forgotten to create something unforgettable?

I mean, I don't really care either way. I have always been a supporting player. I was always a guy in the background who played in the band but was not featured. It was not in my cards to be a star. That doesn't mean that I don't take pride in what I do. And to that end, I am in the camp where I want things polished and as close to perfect as my skills will let me get it.

I posted that song Groundhog Day about 6 weeks ago. I played lead sax on it. Had someone at the skill level of Notes done the lead sax, I am sure it would have been better. But that was MY perfect. His perfect is a different perfect. So in line with the general tone of many responses, until someone can define perfect, it's still all subjective.

To the topic of that video that started this discussion, as far as people remembering me, I have a fairly long list of people I wish WOULD forget about me!

It would be funnier, 90Db, if it weren't so true.

Yes, Cochran's video was about keeping the market saturated along with an "it'll be right, just get it out there" approach.

Incidentally, my definition of 'perfect' in this context is simply "the best that you can do".

One item that I was most concerned about was Cochran's video title: "The new rules of the music industry". He talks as though he now has the authority to makes the rules. What??!! I think he takes a liberty there. What consultation process took place? It's just one person's view, nothing more.

Perfection

It is the sound of utter silence.

Everyone has stopped playing.

All the instruments have been taken out because one was too many and no one was good enough.

So the music stopped. Everyone threw away their BIAB hard drives and gave up.

Pure pristine silence. Nothing out of key. Just pure beautiful nihilistic nothingness and a humming in the head.

Then, wait, the sound of Katy Perry coming from the arena 10 miles down the road.

...... it. Oops, I mean forget it. (Typo. Fingers slipped.)

Plugging back in.

PERFECTION.

Aaaaaaaahhh.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Here's a specific podcast episode from Seth Godin (who knows a few things about hit books and software), that talks about the fallacy of the pursuit of creating a hit.

Hopefully the link I put here will take you to the podcast episode called 'Hitsville'.

It's highly related to the topic of discussion here, but never mentions music; instead it looks at the long tail phenomenon of all kinds of hits and how the game has changed due to the internet.

<iframe src="https://art19.com/shows/akimbo/episodes/50b4de50-dcac-4b9e-898f-ebabbca7fbe3/embed?theme=light-gray-orange" style="width: 100%; height: 200px; border: 0 none;" scrolling="no"></iframe>

Anybody that can convert this link to BB code, feel free!

+++ Hitsville Episode +++

Done!

But that's not the market that he's talking about.

He's talking about a breed of consumer that's bored, and is always seeking something new. So first and foremost, he suggests creating brand loyalty to you, the content provider. Not as a songwriter, or as a musician, but as someone who creates something to satiate the consumer's boredom. And preferably, that content is free and updated on a regular basis, so the consumer keeps coming back.

Then, when the branded content provider has something to sell, the consumer will purchase it out of loyalty to the brand. What that thing we're monetizing is actually secondary, so it could be an album or a brand of toilet paper.

I think the definition of “not perfect” would be when you are telling yourself “it would be better if I...used a better microphone...had a better camera...could tune my vocals... went into a recording studio... had better rhymes... etc etc

For creative folk nothing can ever be "perfect". There will always be something that niggles the creator as he/she develops. The rest of the world might consider it perfect. Perfect, like most adjectives defies definition, everyone has his/her own definition.

I don't agree, but I do it anyway. I'm probably never ever going to "finish" a song, so I release them anyway.I'm not the perfection type, so I just do what I can and hope for the best.

I get his point because I got better ranking and views when I constantly posted crappy songs online, then when I slowed down I lost the #1 spot and ended up near the 20th position.

Not every song can be a hit, but if another musician hears my tune and comes up with an idea, then my job is complete.

Hi Joanne, I don't think that is the definition of "not perfect". I think that is the definition of "misconception". I know, been there done that

For me, that defines "delusional". Tune my vocals, go to a studio, buy better stuff.... when music is just a retirement hobby now? It would be delusional for me to even consider that at approaching 67 NOW is the time someone is going to discover me. But that lends itself to my general outlook on this thread. The people in Cochran's primary target audience are young and still have the gleam in their eye that they will be the next Beatles. I'm just an old guy who is thankful to be on the green side of the sod.

There's some really good points in this thread. I simultaneously agree and disagree with the original video posted. I do think you should strive to release music with high quality, but quantity of releases - ESPECIALLY early in a career - can be crucial.

The way I look at it - if you release a lot of content early on, you are going to catch attention. If you release say 15 songs in a 2 month span and enough people hear it, it's almost guaranteed that each song will appeal to someone. It's just a matter of having it reach out to enough people. Whereas if you release one song every 2 months because you need it to be absolutely perfect, it might not garner enough attention.

Just some food for thought

I would like to run a scientific experiment where we put everyone with a really bleak, negative outlook ("Just give up now and throw your band in a box away, you're too old and fat and everyone hates you") on massive doses of anti-depressants and then see after a two month period if they suddenly think they have just miraculously written 25 wonderful and extraordinary songs that the world just has to hear now--no matter what.

If PG music will underwrite this groundbreaking study, I will do a t-test on the back of a cocktail napkin in 3 minutes and I'm gonna bet the farm on brighter future outlook for songwriting and a massive sign up on SongTradr of, hmmm, I'll say 30,000 to be conservative, in a two hour period.

You have any, Dr. Dave? I've been working on the placebo effects of Tic Tacs for years now.....

(You are going to like the new song I have in progress... One of those happy surprises that go from passing thought to song in a day. This is the one that I was laying in bed dictating the lyrics for into my cell phone this morning.)

Eddie!!

I want credit for that study!!

Ha ha ha ha ha!!

BTW, my wife likes to tell people at dinner parties that I am an "Auto Tic Tac."

It somehow came out of a conversation about being an autodidact. Don't ask me how.

But now I know you are the only person in the world who gets me Eddie. The only one.

That's ok. One is better than none.

Can't wait to hear the new song. Sounds like a case of Tic Tacs was consumed there buddy.

This here might be about as close to perfect as we'll see in this life:
https://youtu.be/XafcAAPhuU0
A lot of busking, determination. Now we hear Willie has moved on to other things.