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#465048 - 03/31/18 04:59 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW??
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Hello there all you Techsperts!

I have been trying to get BIAB to work via Jack Connector Kit while using Cubase simultaneously. Haven't yet tried Synchronous Audio.

Yes I know that drag and drop from BIAB works nicely, but I'd very much like to be able to work back and forth more easily. Quitting and restarting Cubase to give BIAB the soundcard is ridiculous. I'm running a newish machine: Windows 10 with 8GB RAM; Cubase Artist 9.5; BIAB 2017 Audiophile edition.

*** Will the 32-bit BIAB even WORK via this 64/32-bit Jack Connector Kit? I seem to have installed it correctly (including manually registering, regsvr32; updating Jack Target info to ASIO; and choosing Jackrouter for BIAB ASIO output).

All I get is a heavy audio buzz from BIAB when connected via Jack -- while Cubase works fine through soundcard. Made no adjustments to Cubase. Maybe Cubase is supposed to be routed thru Jack as well?? Dunno. Maybe BIAB just won't work this way? I'm a Noobie technically.

Thanks in advance for any help, mates!
~Billy Boy

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#465051 - 03/31/18 05:40 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Welcome to the forum.

I have no idea what your jack connector kit is, but BIAB and Cubase can certainly run together off the same soundcard. One of them (likely BIAB) should use the MME driver. Let Cubase or whatever DAW you use have the ASIO driver.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#465064 - 03/31/18 10:36 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: Matt Finley]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Hi Matt... Thanks for feedback.

Oh, if only it were that easy. But wait... you got me looking deeper. Maybe it IS that easy... sort of.

I could never get BIAB to work at the same time as Cubase or Ableton... though yes, I tried assigning the 2 diff drivers -- MME to BIAB; ASIO to DAW. Doesn't work on my setup.

But since you said it definitely does... after more tries and poking around I found what should have been obvious; a little tick-box in Cubase audio setup: "Release driver when Cubase is in Background." Bingo!

So assigning the 2 DIFFERENT drivers doesn't work - not for me anyway (I don't understand why not - especially after your confirm of the idea), but releasing whatever "driver" by Cubase DOES... even though the 2 programs are supposedly controlling separate drivers. Go figure.

In any case... It now works nicely for me! Not simultaneously, mind you - but that's OK. Both programs can now remain open while I work effortlessly with either one at a time - just shifting control of the driver/soundcard as needed. THANKS VERY MUCH!!

Let me know if you still think I'm missing it - like how they really CAN work simultaneously (but it's not critical for my song-building purposes).

-----------
Jack Audio Connector is open source software for routing all kinds of Apps in and out, simultaneous audio, with one soundcard:
http://www.jackaudio.org/

Synchronous Audio Router is another:
http://sar.audio/

Pedalboard2 looks pretty darn useful as well:
http://www.niallmoody.com/apps/pedalboard2

This YouTuber showcases these & more - eye-opening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzd7naKzRgw


Edited by BillyBoyinaBox (04/01/18 01:15 AM)

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#465092 - 04/01/18 04:30 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
I guess I should add that I'm using Asio4all as my ASIO driver, if that makes a difference.

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#465104 - 04/01/18 08:07 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11071
Loc: Hamlin NY
I also can run BiaB and my DAW, Studio One Pro 3.5, simultaneously by having BiaB on MME drivers and my DAW on ASIO. What sound card are you using? Does it have native ASIO drivers?
_________________________
The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

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#465113 - 04/01/18 10:18 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
ASIO4ALL is actually not an ASIO driver. Tell us what your soundcard is.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#465173 - 04/01/18 08:29 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: Matt Finley]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Hey Matt and Mario:

No there won't be any real ASIO driver involved here then. My soundcard is just the plain ol' "comes with" built-in for this Acer Aspire TC-780 desktop - around the US$500 mark. The only details I can see about it is RealTek sound and driver.

When installing Cubase, it gave me a choice of something like "Generic low-latency driver" (ASIO?) or the already installed Asio4All I'd been using. I chose Asio4All.

Sounds like it's my bare-bones basic soundcard that's limiting me. Probably no real ASIO possible. But do enlighten me please if I can somehow make that step up with current setup.

Thanks for your help, Gents!

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#465207 - 04/02/18 07:31 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6505
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Before buying something you may not need, try using WAS which stands for Windows Audio Sound. This is something new that MS created with Win 10. It's possible that Cubase's "generic low latency driver" is WAS. Biab will use WAS. I have no idea if this will help you or not but it's worth checking out.

Bob
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#465215 - 04/02/18 08:15 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: BillyBoyinaBox
Sounds like it's my bare-bones basic soundcard that's limiting me.

I'm going to agree. In all the descriptions of people using RealTek sound cards (the built-in ones on laptops and some store desktops), I don't recall ever reading that anyone was happy. I hope someone here can prove me wrong.

In the meantime, you can certainly solve your problem without any jack contrivances if you buy a simple USB soundcard. Something like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 or 2i4 would do, and there are several competitors with similar equipment. Then you use ASIO with the DAW and the new soundcard, and MME or WAS with BIAB.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#465217 - 04/02/18 08:26 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11071
Loc: Hamlin NY
Try Bob's advice first. I don't think that it will work but it is worth a try.

However I would check out audio interfaces for musicians. They start at around $100 USD,

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/focusrite-scarlett-solo-2nd-generation-usb-audio-interface

then go up to the $1,000s USD. First determine how many inputs that you need then if possible double it. For instance that above Focusrite has one input so if only you will be recording then it will be fine. But if you have a friend over to jam then you may need two inputs.

Note that a lot of people here have Focusrite units. They all have native ASIO drivers so you will be able to run your DAW and BiaB simultaneously.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

{edit} I see that Matt and I were typing at the same time and were saying the same thing!


Edited by MarioD (04/02/18 08:27 AM)
_________________________
The only exercise I did this month was run out of money!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#465239 - 04/02/18 12:45 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 939
Hi,

You may need to use MME or WAS in both programs in order to get sound in both of them. If I use my MOTU Ultralite's ASIO driver in any program, no other programs are able to make sound through it, no matter which driver type they use.

This isn't just an issue with ASIO4ALL, it's typical behaviour with ASIO. Some ASIO drivers might not do this, but they'd be the exception, not the rule.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

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#465242 - 04/02/18 01:03 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17323
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
My experience is different from Kent’s, but the result is the same for all the advice here: try different combinations of drivers, and seriously consider getting something to bypass the Realtek. Kent’s MOTU is top of the line, and perhaps more finicky about sharing drivers.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#465278 - 04/02/18 06:48 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: Matt Finley]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Thanks Guys!
(Great resource you all are...)
Will proceed - now with a little more light on the subject.

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#465327 - 04/03/18 07:02 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10491
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
The "Generic Low Latency" driver from Steinberg is essentially their version of ASIO4ALL. I've used it a few times and it's okay. Best of course is a native driver to the sound card, but if you are stuck with an onboard sound chip, things like ASIO4ALL or the Generic Low Latency driver are really your only choices for ASIO and better performance (in the sense of lower latency).
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John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
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#465482 - 04/04/18 09:24 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 5691
I have a dedicated Focusrite soundcard running ASIO.

So when I work.... I start Sonar first so it gets ASIO.

I can then start Band in a Box AND Real Band and both of them will run with the MME drivers so I can hear what I need in them.

But yep.... whichever program I start first gets the ASIO driver since it's the default. I don't drag and drop. I write in BB and then close it to open the BB file in RB where I render the audio tracks I need and want. I copy them to a folder and import the tracks into my DAW from there. That way, I have the files for future reference if I need to revisit the song project in the future.

BTW: all files including the PG BB/RB go into that one folder and periodically, I move them to a backup drive to keep lots of working space on the C drive. I have several song folders that are larger than one gig in size..... so yeah, they get moved to the terabyte drive.


Edited by Guitarhacker (04/04/18 09:25 AM)
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#465591 - 04/04/18 05:31 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 3853
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Another option is to use genuine Realtek audio drivers. +++ HERE +++ is the link.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2018 BiaB (519) UltraPlusPak RB 2018 (Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#465737 - 04/05/18 09:21 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: Jim Fogle]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Thanks also to John, Guitarhacker and Jim. Good to know.


But Jim: that Realtek link to drivers (although I'm sure legit) is not functioning right to get to what looks like the right drivers. Cycles round to nowhere.

NEVERTHELESS, I somehow managed to find and DL the "0009-64bit Windows" driver .exe with Readme PDF. Could I find it again now on that messed up site? No. So I don't remember exactly how I got there. But it's here now, still packed up in my DL folder.

Nah, this is the kind of stuff that usually gets me into trouble with my low-level tech knowledge, screwing everything up. I look at the Readme file for the thing and it, like, SCREAMS at me in its old school "typewriting" PDF from Taiwan: "Don't do it, you idiot! You're going to regret this, Buddy-Boy." Haha. So... no. I think not. Unless you can assure me I can do no wrong.

I just don't know enough of what I'm doing here technically. Everything currently WORKS, at least. I don't really want to exchange that for potentially hours OR DAYS OF FRUSTRATION anytime soon. LOL. Would I like better, more flexible sound? Sure. But the risk seems too great. Thanks, though.

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#465883 - 04/07/18 03:38 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 2512
Just use VoiceMeeter Banana, you can set window sound to VB Cable or HiFi Cable and set it as a VoiceMeeter input, then you will have sound from everything at once.
Set BB to VoiceMeeter ASIO and Cubase to VoiceMeeter AUX ASIO.
Set VoiceMeeter Output to the main audio device attached to your speakers.

https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm


Edited by Pipeline (04/07/18 11:45 PM)

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#466025 - 04/07/18 08:39 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: Pipeline]
BillyBoyinaBox Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/17
Posts: 7
Hey that looks great. Thank you, Pipeline! Will be checking it out.

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#467393 - 04/15/18 02:44 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: BIAB Audio Routing via Jack or SAR while using DAW?? [Re: BillyBoyinaBox]
rockstar_not Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7395
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
ASIO4ALL is a sort of wrapper for the mme drivers if I am not mistaken. It can provide lower latency than mme by itself but I think it’s using the mme drivers to begin with so you won’t have access to both mme and ASIO4ALL at the same time for the same device.

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