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#467406 - 04/15/18 03:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence?
zedd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/11/16
Posts: 289
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Hey Folks,

I'm just curious to hear what some of you think about Band-in-a-Box being called "Artificial Intelligence"?

Performances are recorded by humans and an algorithm is able to intelligently recompile that data into different chord structures and string a progression together in musically intelligent ways. There are enough variations that randomizing the generation produces different results each time. But is it artificial intelligence, or just a clever algorithm?

Low-level AI? It isn't really composing the song rather than following a set of rules, I think. Not sure how the chord progressions are generated, but I think they are just a bunch of programmed chord progressions that can be randomized using some key basic rules that keep the new forms logical and harmonious.

At what point does it become AI?

I'm also wondering what PGMusic developers think about this too, and thinking about what kinds of AI might be added to the application in future for even more creative song constructions and track mixing?

Not sure if this is a silly question to be asking or not, but I was thinking about it and thought I'd see what some of you thought about it.

Cheerios,

Zedd
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#467470 - 04/16/18 05:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4327
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I don't think BiaB is AI, but instead reflects the creativity and intelligence of Peter Gannon and his team.

I've written styles for a few auto-accompaniment hardware/software and software products, some "for hire" with non-disclosure clauses and with BiaB as an aftermarket business that I hope supports PG Music while making a little 'side money' for me so I don't have to travel to gig in the slow season.

Of the apps I have written for, BiaB has the most intelligent design and allows the style writer to put in things that the others do not.

The result is the output often seems like AI, and even with my own styles, sometimes surprises and delights me.

It's one of the reasons why over 25 years later, I'm still here, still writing aftermarket styles, and still enjoying using Band-in-a-Box.

IMHO we are all using the very best auto-accompaniment device available.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#467520 - 04/16/18 12:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17108
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Some would call it artificial intelligence only when it crosses the line after which a human can't tell it is not another human. I think BIAB is more like a decision support system. It can only call up RealTracks that have already been recorded. If we ever get to the point where the RealTracks are generated on the fly on demand from an infinite set of possibilities, then I will change my mind.
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#467531 - 04/16/18 01:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: Matt Finley]
w Offline
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Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 785
Loc: somewhere in outer space
The dictionary sezs:

Quote:
the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.



However, i often wonder about Band-in-a-Box finding myself somewhat amazed at what i believe to be AI creating music.

How is it that i can type in just one chord in the first bar of let's say 32 bar chord sheet for any given style and away it goes. The human intervention was very limited and the creation of music was not human. I was not playing a keyboard or vocalizing or playing a harmonica by example.

Or i can select a style , type in the chords of a song, although do not add a melody for that song and when you hit play it does create an illusion that you are hearing/listening to that song. Here again the human intervention was limited.



Edited by w (04/16/18 01:32 PM)
Edit Reason: typing corrections
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#467625 - 04/17/18 05:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4327
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
It's just following a set of instructions coded into the app by very intelligent people.

If it comes to the point where BiaB can initiate the desire to create a symphony and then create one, I'll go with AI. laugh

Notes
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Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#467716 - 04/17/18 11:00 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10327
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
While it may seem like AI, I think to be AI it needs to be able to learn and adapt as it goes along. It merely follows its set rules, but doesn't adapt to learn more about how you do music the more you use it. Of course, the flip side of that is that it doesn't really provide the user with a means to give it feedback, so it is somewhat one-sided. What if it were more like:

BIAB: "Here's an arrangement I came up with. What do you think?"
USER: "Everything's good, except the drums for this style is too loud."
BIAB: "Okay, I'll adjust that for you so the next time you use the style, I'll tone down the drums a bit. How about now?"
USER: "Perfect"
BIAB: "Great; however, there's another style that probably does exactly what you want. Would you like to preview it and then decide which one to keep?"
USER: "Sure"
BIAB: "Okay, here it is"
USER: "Naw, I like the first one"
BIAB: "Okay, I'll not suggest the second one as a substitute again."

My $0.02 worth and probably not worth even that.
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#467888 - Yesterday at 12:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Notes Norton Offline
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Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4327
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Good answer John.

Or:

User typing in a D chord

BiaB: This is a II chord and it seems like it is in a ii V7 I progression so consider making it a Dm chord. Of course if you want that major 3rd you could leave it, but I liked the sound of the minor better.

Notes


Edited by Notes Norton (Yesterday at 12:27 PM)
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#467890 - Yesterday at 12:33 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: jford]
w Offline
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Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 785
Loc: somewhere in outer space
^
jford,

and as always you windowguys will have that version before the Mac version is released

smile
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#467893 - Yesterday at 12:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10327
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
And what Notes said, too.
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#467954 - Yesterday at 03:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17108
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I don't need a program arguing with me over my choice of chord; I get that enough from other musicians! (kidding)
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#468017 - Today at 05:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4327
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I've quit some bands because of that Matt (only slight exaggeration).

Notes
_________________________
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http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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#468023 - Today at 07:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: Matt Finley]
Mike Halloran Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 60
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
... If we ever get to the point where the RealTracks are generated on the fly on demand from an infinite set of possibilities, then I will change my mind.

Well, I have to agree with that.
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#468028 - Today at 07:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Is Band-in-a-Box Artificial Intelligence? [Re: zedd]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10327
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
And I don't want BIAB to be so smart that I can be able to say, "Hey, BIAB, write the next hit song for me!" "Okay, there you go!"

I like that it does a lot based on my own input, but I still want to retain control artistically, while at the same time not getting mired down by having to manually deal with every little possibility. I love the balance of being able to pick a style that's close to what I hear in my head, perhaps regen it a few times to get it close (and probably good enough), and then if I want to, I can always load it into a DAW and slice and dice it to the nth degree. That last part only happens on a select number of songs. Life's too short.
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PG Music News
Video: Exporting Audio Files in Band-in-a-Box® 2018

Our latest video, Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows - Exporting Audio Files Tutorial walks you through the different options to export your Band-in-a-Box® songs and song tracks from Band-in-a-Box® as an audio file (WAV, MP3, etc.)!

http://www.pgmusic.com/?vid=_Px958TmzhA

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows Build 516 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box 2018 for Windows customer can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#516

Summary of changes:
Improved: More RealTracks have HiQ transcriptions. Fixed Bass AmericanaSlow16thsByron bad chords.
Improved: The Audio Drivers dialog for WAS devices now shows Bit Depth in the device description.
Improved: WAS audio driver performance has been Improved when using 44.1 kHz sample rate.
Improved: Windows Audio Session error messages contain more specific information.
Updated: Misc. updates to StylePicker database, memos, manuals, help files.
Fixed: "BBW.LST not found" errors when using the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: "mono" was being ignored when rendering a batch of songs to audio files.
Fixed: "normalize individual tracks" was only working for MIDI tracks.
Fixed: "One file per track" was being ignored when rendering a batch of songs to audio files.
Fixed: Access violation on bootup if using a Roland audio interface (ASIO) that is not connected.
Fixed: Adjusting Melody or Soloist tracks to fit a new number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: An access violation error might occur in the RealTracks Picker if quickly scrolling and double-clicking to hear demos.
Fixed: Changing a track name using the StylePicker mixer controls might open a hidden popup window.
Fixed: Changing the number of choruses was not undo-able.
Fixed: Clicking on the far left of the Guitar window would cause a "!!!!!" flash message to show.
Fixed: If adjusting the number of choruses in your song, choosing Cancel is ignored when asked, "OK to adjust Melody track to fit new # of choruses?".
Fixed: JazzBebopDannyBrushes sometimes out of sync.
Fixed: Panning the audio track did not work.
Fixed: Some Amplitube presets/styles/demos pointed to a preset which wasn't available in some installs.
Fixed: Some typos and omissions in RealDrums Picker.
Fixed: The [.STY] button in the Hybrid Style maker dialog.
Fixed: The [Get Patch/Drum Kit Info] button in the MIDI drivers dialog would not find the synthesizer documentation.
Fixed: The About dialog was not showing the Fretlight Ready logo.
Fixed: The Audio Chord Wizard would always run in English.
Fixed: The busy mouse cursor might remain after analyzing audio with the Audio Chord Wizard.
Fixed: The PDF driver installer could not be launched from Band-in-a-Box.
Fixed: The Plugins window would be too small when using plugins that have a small GUI.
Fixed: Using a Coyote DXi synthesizer (eg CoyoteWT or ForteDXi) might cause crackling/buzzing noise during playback.
Fixed: Using a multi speaker layout (eg. 4 speakers surround sound) instead of stereo might cause failure to connect to audio hardware with error -9996. This only happened when using WAS as audio driver type.
Fixed: Video rendering would fail if saved using Japanese characters in file name.
Fixed: When saving a Hybrid style for the first time, the File Save dialog should start in the Styles directory.

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Amazing Band-in-a-Box User Comments!

Great program with lots of support through the publisher and after-market. Use it for teaching, practicing, and gigging.
-Andrew L.

I just got my 6th film placement on a song recorded entirely in Band-in-a-Box. You guys rock!
-Terry Fernihough (Band-in-a-Box Endorsing Artist!)

I love this program. I have only had it for around a month but it has made things a lot easier for me. I no longer have to scour the internet for backing tracks. I just plug in the chords I want to use, find the style I want and done. Saving me so much time and being able to transpose into different keys is awesome too.
As the days go on I will be delving deeper into what it can do, importing some of my backing tracks into Abelton 9 to play with and writing some songs.
Best money I have spent on something in while.
-Peter S.

I started using Band-in-a-Box around 1990. It was the DOS version naturally and I used one of those old portable computers with dual floppy drives and a built in 9" monochrome display. I connected midi cables to a great sounding Yamaha keyboard and played my music using midi tracks. I did a demo for a university music class that was a lot of fun. Wow, it is almost unimaginable to see where this product has elevated to today. I have upgraded many times over the past 28 years but each time I am even more amazed. Thank you PG Music for being such a major part of my love for music all of these years!!!
-Dwayne G.

Incredible Software. Great for ignorance and experts and for anyone who wants to deal with music. If you do not have a hobby and want to have one "band in a box" is the best choice. Simple, but if you want to be an expert on it, you need to make an effort to master it perfectly for perfect use. The only disadvantage is if you do not want to become a musician, and use it, you will become a perfect musician. Therefore, be cautious. It's not a toy.
-Ilija B.

I’ve been using it for about the same time (20 years). I’m a trumpet player and just really want some backing on lead sheets. With the Real Styles - it sounds fantastic! Takes just minutes to input chord changes and find the right style. There is so much you can do and I love having the Soloist features to really add color.
-Mike B.

Read even more great feedback here.

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