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#467279 - 04/15/18 01:07 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] listen - play - listen - loop
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone anyone has any ideas to help me with learning licks and parts of songs efficiently (on digital piano).

I've recently been getting a bit more structured with my practice, and have realised the value of playing with a metronome/BIAB as well as recording myself and listening.

Just Using Band-in-the-Box has helped me notice that I have a habit of skipping beats sometime, and I'm now getting that under control(...well a bit better).

I've been using Transcribe to listen to short segments from Mp3 or Mp4 I'm learning, stop, and then playing myself on the piano.

What would be really great if I could have some way of doing the following (say for a 4 bar phrase/lick) in a loop.

1 Play the mp3/mp4
2 Then have an equal time space where I could play (recording via midi)
3. play the mp3/mp4 again
4. Play back what I've played in (2.) so I can check for accuracy.

then loop through 1 to 4 (but overwriting what I've played previously if I choose to play again - otherwise keep my previous recording section so I could re-listen).

Hope the above makes sense :-)

It would be great if Transcribe could do this (but doesn't do MIDI)
Any thoughts on which of my software (including BIAB of course) would be the best way ?

Many thanks!
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

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#467303 - 04/15/18 05:39 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
jcland Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 314
Loc: Springfield, MO
Seems to me you just need to do multi-track recording in a DAW with the MP3 on 1 track and your playing on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc tracks should you so choose. That way you can re-record yourself multiple times on those new tracks. You have the ability to mute those previously recorded tracks you do not want to listen to on your playback. A good DAW should also have the ability to give you a 'click track' if you do not have a stand-alone metronome.

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#467327 - 04/15/18 08:46 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11442
Loc: Hamlin NY
Another approach would be to slow down tempo but keep the same pitch. The free Audacity can do that:

https://www.lifewire.com/audacity-tutorial-change-songs-speed-without-affecting-pitch-2438167

The tools that are available today are fantastic. I ruined all of my Chuck Berry albums by playing a section, lifting the needle, practice it on my guitar, then try to put the needle down without scratching the album. I never quite got the anti-scratching part down!

PS - I just read that BiaB can also do this. I do not do audio in BiaB so someone with more expertise in this area will have to help.
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#467341 - 04/15/18 09:56 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: MarioD]
BlueAttitude Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1699
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: MarioD


The tools that are available today are fantastic. I ruined all of my Chuck Berry albums by playing a section, lifting the needle, practice it on my guitar, then try to put the needle down without scratching the album. I never quite got the anti-scratching part down!


That brought back some memories! I did that too.

Then later I would record the song on a reel-to-reel at 7 1/2 ips and play back at 3 3/4 so it was half speed (but down in pitch an octave). Learned lots of solos using that method!


Edited by BlueAttitude (04/15/18 09:57 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
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Blue Attitude: Homepage, Youtube page

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#467366 - 04/15/18 12:03 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: BlueAttitude]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11442
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Originally Posted By: MarioD


The tools that are available today are fantastic. I ruined all of my Chuck Berry albums by playing a section, lifting the needle, practice it on my guitar, then try to put the needle down without scratching the album. I never quite got the anti-scratching part down!


That brought back some memories! I did that too.

Then later I would record the song on a reel-to-reel at 7 1/2 ips and play back at 3 3/4 so it was half speed (but down in pitch an octave). Learned lots of solos using that method!


We have a lot in common! I also bought a reel-to-reel and did the same thing using the cheap Radio Shack's white box tape. But this was after I ruined some of my records!
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#467443 - 04/15/18 10:15 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: jcland]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: jcland
Seems to me you just need to do multi-track recording in a DAW with the MP3 on 1 track and your playing on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc tracks should you so choose.
That way you can re-record yourself multiple times on those new tracks. You have the ability to mute those previously recorded tracks you do not want to listen to on your playback.


Thanks - It's good to know that this can be done!
Yes, this is sort of the way I was heading - I bought a copy of Reaper recently and I know that there are an amazing number of features, but I'm very much a beginner - I might head for the Reaper forums to find out exactly how to achieve this.

Many thanks,
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

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#467444 - 04/15/18 10:20 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: MarioD]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom


Thanks - I didn't know this was possible in Audacity. As it happens this is the what Transcribe is really good at, but It's just a shame that it doesn't let me record MIDI

Originally Posted By: MarioD

PS - I just read that BiaB can also do this. I do not do audio in BiaB so someone with more expertise in this area will have to help.



Interesting - It's amazing what features are tucked away in BIAB. I've just started working my way through some of the tutorial videos - it's going to take some time ;-)


Edited by ShaunHH (04/15/18 10:21 PM)
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

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#467454 - 04/16/18 02:08 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
Teunis Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 287
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Hi if I understand correctly you want to have say 4 bars of an MP3 then another 4 bars for yourself. You have Reaper check https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilX2FOyu_Ts Kenny Gioia talks about takes and comping. You could do similar. A similar thing can be done in CakeWalk by Bandlab (which is free to down load) set your part up in the first 4 bars loop through 8 recording the last 4bars and creating separate takes.

Check out the various Reaper Videos on the Reaper site and even more on Kenny Gioia's http://www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/#reaper-5-explained site. You will also find how to transpose your MP3. Kenny's site has a lot more Reaper videos on almost anything you will want to do in Reaper.

Just a thought

Tony



Edited by Teunis (04/16/18 02:12 AM)
_________________________
HP i7-4770 16GB 512G SSD, Win 10 Home,
Roland Quad Capture, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster + more
BIAB 2018 (520) RB 2018 (5), CakeWalk by BandLab, Reaper, Audacity, Melodyne

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#467457 - 04/16/18 03:09 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Hey there Shaun,

I recorded a quick tutorial on how you can do this, which I will upload a bit later this evening.
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#467502 - 04/16/18 10:28 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Just made a YT video to demonstrate the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R09Lf3bHjhQ&feature=youtu.be
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#467587 - 04/16/18 10:24 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: DeaconBlues09]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09
Just made a YT video to demonstrate the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R09Lf3bHjhQ&feature=youtu.be


Wow! Many thanks for your time in making this - I just wasn't even aware that BIAB could do the things that you show... :-)

There is just so much that is hidden within this software.

I'm going to re-watch this at the weekend and have a play around with these features.

Many thanks!
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

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#467598 - 04/16/18 10:58 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: Teunis]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Teunis
Hi if I understand correctly you want to have say 4 bars of an MP3 then another 4 bars for yourself. You have Reaper check https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilX2FOyu_Ts Kenny Gioia talks about takes and comping. You could do similar.


Hi Tony, Yes you are correct - that is what I'm after. Thanks for the link - I've seen the numerous Kenny Gioia videos - and have watched a few previously but the one you show is the one I need. There are so many of them!

I think this is probably going to be the most suitable way to achieve what I'm after. Do you know if it's possible to set it so that, instead of creating a new take, it lets you overwrite the take (but only if you play something new via MIDI keyboard) after every repeat cycle?

Thanks,
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

Top
#467608 - 04/17/18 02:36 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
Teunis Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 287
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Check the video regarding "punch in hands free" at https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKr9fyDj52AP6UKU5OGZBy4Yj6vs-pPvcgOgjB9lXrcZC9FE_dij4aQJ0hsX6ZM8YoqJeZ2Efgu3A6LWlwRSP1VixD4afA&time_continue=2&v=I1Il-LhyMs8. another Kenny Gioia video that shows how to loop a section, record in a portion, and continue with the loop. You can do it in takes or go over the same part. For practice where you are not interested in getting the best part you can go over the part. If you really want something to keep then use takes and comping which allows you to cut or keep what you want. This will work with audio or midi. Kenny shows how.

I have not done this in Reaper but I have done similar many times in Sonar. Reaper is something I have only recently been playing in. Using BB and RB I have not had to go through any of this. When I have wanted a better part in a RealTrack I have simply used the multi riff feature then in Reaper chopped and positioned the parts if I felt I should but that is not what you are about.

Tony


Edited by Teunis (04/17/18 02:49 AM)
_________________________
HP i7-4770 16GB 512G SSD, Win 10 Home,
Roland Quad Capture, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster + more
BIAB 2018 (520) RB 2018 (5), CakeWalk by BandLab, Reaper, Audacity, Melodyne

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#467610 - 04/17/18 02:54 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
OK, I actually figured out how to do this in BiaB, and will post a video update later this evening :-)
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#468115 - 04/19/18 10:20 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: Teunis]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Teunis
Check the video regarding "punch in hands free" at https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKr9fyDj52AP6UKU5OGZBy4Yj6vs-pPvcgOgjB9lXrcZC9FE_dij4aQJ0hsX6ZM8YoqJeZ2Efgu3A6LWlwRSP1VixD4afA&time_continue=2&v=I1Il-LhyMs8. another Kenny Gioia video that shows how to loop a section, record in a portion, and continue with the loop. You can do it in takes or go over the same part. For practice where you are not interested in getting the best part you can go over the part. If you really want something to keep then use takes and comping which allows you to cut or keep what you want. This will work with audio or midi. Kenny shows how.


Thanks again! Just checked out this video and it's so interesting - yes - all the features I need are there. I'm going to have a closer look at the weekend.
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

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#468116 - 04/19/18 10:22 PM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: DeaconBlues09]
ShaunHH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 12
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09
OK, I actually figured out how to do this in BiaB, and will post a video update later this evening :-)


Thanks - If you've got a link I'll definitely check it out!

Once again, many thanks for your help!
_________________________
ShaunHH

Yamaha Arias YDP-163 Piano, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 mk2,
PC: i7-3770, 8GB Ram
Software: Band-in-a-Box Pro 2018(v508), Transcribe 8.6 , Reaper 5.7

Top
#468432 - 04/22/18 08:48 AM [Woodshedding - Learning to Play!] Re: listen - play - listen - loop [Re: ShaunHH]
DeaconBlues09 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Quote:
Thanks - If you've got a link I'll definitely check it out!


Here ya go :-)

https://youtu.be/h0aL4HI6_oM
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