It's nice to be able to pick a key and have the first chord represent the key, but I find it intersting that it onlys works with major keys. When I want to use the A minor key the first chord that shows up before I add any other chords is the C major, not Am like it should.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021 DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
It's nice to be able to pick a key and have the first chord represent the key, but I find it intersting that it onlys works with major keys. When I want to use the A minor key the first chord that shows up before I add any other chords is the C major, not Am like it should.
The same thing happens in the Windows version and it happens on all minor keys. For example change the key signature to Gm the first chord is a Bb, change the key to Dm an F is the first chord. The first chord is always the major key and not the minor key. Fortunately you can change the first chord to any chord you want.
You should put this on the wish list.
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It would seem the programme looks at how many sharps or flats then uses the major. How would the programme know there was a minor key intended. That sort of seems fair enough. Matt will know for sure but to me a dots type player is more interested in where the sharps and flats fall and that determines the key.
My thoughts
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 05/03/1810:51 AM.
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2) I also agree, if the program is going to put anything, it should be the relative minor if that’s what the key says. Otherwise, just put C all the time and don’t try to ‘help’ us.
3) The sharps and flats alone, without knowing whether it’s a major or minor key, only give you a 50% chance of guessing right.
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I agree. When you set the key and select a minor key, it should display the appropriate initial minor chord in cell one and of course display the proper key signature in notation.
So if I select Em as the key of the song (relative minor to the key of G), it should display Em as the initial chord (which can then be changed, but indicates that you properly selected what you intended), and then the notation should display a single sharp in the key signature. (Key signature and key are not the same thing).
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
Jim, what we’ve been discussing is that a key signature of no flats and no sharps could be the key of C Major, or its relative minor, A minor. In that example, both scales would be all white keys on the piano.
That’s the simplest explanation I can think of. It’s why I mentioned above the odds are 50%. For any major key, like F, there is a relative minor using the same key signature, in this case Dm (both with one flat).
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Hi Matt, that is what I was sort of getting at. If B.B. just used the sharps or flats I can understand it using the major key. However, I see there is a section for minor keys so I guess it should take that into consideration when determining the first chord.
For me, I am not really affected because I mainly just use chords. I am happy enough to change the first chord if it needs it. As long as I understand the major and its relative minor all seems ok. Even in written music it only shows the sharps and flats. When playing in a minor key often the only clue is the first or last chord and some of the chord progressios but that does not always hold true. For a team Classical musicians there might be reasons to know if a song is written in C or Am I guess that is more for a mood thing and or expression purposes.
Having said all that I am not into music the way some folk on the forum are. But I am still open to learn.
My thoughts Tony
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To me it really doesn't matter whether the first chord is the tonic major chord or the relative minor chord. Probably half the songs ever made don't start on a tonic major or minor chord. The key signature is the only thing that matters.
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Jim, what we’ve been discussing is that a key signature of no flats and no sharps could be the key of C Major, or its relative minor, A minor. In that example, both scales would be all white keys on the piano.
That’s the simplest explanation I can think of. It’s why I mentioned above the odds are 50%. For any major key, like F, there is a relative minor using the same key signature, in this case Dm (both with one flat).
Matt, your explanation makes sense, thank you.
I didn't realize both C major and A minor have no flats. I've read some people advise looking at the last chord in a song as the last chord can help you determine the song's key. The rule of thumb is nice to know because major keys and relative minor keys share key signatures, correct?
The key signature is there for notation purposes and is not actually required. You can apply sharps, flats and naturals to individual notes within notation to your heart's content. By using a key signature, you have a predefined shorthand so you don't have accidental strewn about your notation and is much easier to read. There is no separate major or minor key signature. The key signature encompasses both the major key and its relative minor (G major and E minor both use one sharp, so only one key signature is required to represent both of them). You can't look at the key signature to determine the key of the song (as Matt said, you've got a 50/50 chance of getting it right). So you instead need to look at the notes or chords of the song to determine the key. So the key determines how the song sounds to your ear; the key signature determines what the song looks like on the musical staff.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
OK. We've explained the theory. Let's get back to the OP's request.
He's right.
It's a matter of consistency.
Let's say you start a new song in BIAB. You see that the key is C by default, and the first chord is C by default. You change the key to F by clicking on the Concert Key Signature (to the right of the Style Time Signature). Use the left-hand column. The first chord of the song then becomes F.
OK, BIAB is reinforcing that you changed the key signature by showing a change of that first chord. Choose any of the key possibilities (17, including the enharmonics) in the upper left column and you get the same effect: the first chord becomes the same as the key.
Now choose any of the 17 minor keys in the lower left column. You get the relative major as the first chord. Ex. you see an F chord in the key of Dm.
For consistency, I think the first chord should become the minor key chosen. Choose a key of Dm, and that first chord should be Dm. That behavior would be consistent with what already happens with a major key.
A side benefit is that, as cited, this is a clue (not necessarily a truism, but one of many clues) as to what the key signature of the song may be. It would also reinforce the music theory concept of relative minor key.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
It's nice to be able to pick a key and have the first chord represent the key, but I find it intersting that it onlys works with major keys. When I want to use the A minor key the first chord that shows up before I add any other chords is the C major, not Am like it should.
Tried your suggestion but it doesn't seem to work for me. here is an example of what I understood the OP to be saying,
1) open BIAB and the default key is C 2) note that the first bar has C already entered for you 3) change key to G and watch that first chord symbol change to G 4) change key to Am and watch that first chord change to C
In step #4 the chord should change to Am. But it changes to C regardless of the setting you mentioned.
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