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All well and good, but this leads on to the question, how much time really (especially at our age) does one want to practice and spend almost every free minute getting better at our hobby? That all boils down to how much the end result matters to each individual, and only they know the answer. Using me as the example, at one time I thought I wanted to get into Ham radio. They I found out that the testing included fluency in Morse Code. I had no desire to spend the time learning Morse Code, so the idea of being a licenses Ham radio operator died right there.
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My problem was how to forget them.  We played nearly the same set lists for way, way too long. Ditto, J&B. We had about 250 songs in our repertoire and we would shuffle the setlist each night (assuming the same venue). We knew our repertoire well enough to open it up to take requests from the audience. That can be thin ice if your band is not prepared for the challenge. A pet peeve of mine is - musicians that are constantly tuning. Nothing shouts 'amateur' louder than that. Back on topic: Joe, most songs only have 3-5 chords per key (wait to flame me, Eddie) so try to train your ear to tell you 'when' more than 'where' to change chords. You will begin to think of each key as those 3-5 chords rather than the thousands of possibilities available.
Hit the afterburner, Eddie!
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Good advice Donny. I'm going to give that a spin. I want to be book free by the end of this year, so that I can connect with my audience. Not that the dogs really care! I find the Jazz numbers in my set to be the hardest to remember because they're a bit more complex.
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His original thesis said he doesn't practice enough. Will the court clerk please read back Mr. Vidmar’s objection? MR. VIDMAR: ASKED AND ANSWERED Counselor, your argument in support of your objection is a Thesis, which is a statement, not a question. Your objection is to a question asked. The Court’s ruling stands. Of course the REAL answer to How do you memorize chords to lots of Covet songs is simple: Eddie don’t do no stinkin’ cover songs. "I eat way too much food and I am fat. Does anybody have any tips for me to lose weight?"
Well, um, I'll start with "stop eating way too much food". Then we move on to switch to a heavier fiber and less carbohydrate based diet routine. However, I am not going to move in with you and cook for you. Adults shouldn't need someone else to provide the discipline it takes to accomplish a goal. Agreed there? This is probably a good teaching moment, because your weight loss example plays into exactly what I’m saying. You tell the patient his problem is that he eats too much food and if he eats in your manner he is going to lose weight. He comes back and asks for alternative strategies and you basically tell him that he doesn’t have the discipline and he’s asking you to provide it for him. Great bedside manner by the way. People often times need strategies that they may not be familiar with to help them reach a desired goal. If he came to me and asked me for an alternative strategy, I’d have several, but I’ll share one as an example. I’d ask him if he knows that when Arnold Schwarzenegger was a professional body builder, that he consumed between 5,000 and 6,000 calories every day just to maintain his muscle mass. I’d explain to him that muscle size is one of the main determinants of your body’s metabolic rate and that by starting a program to build muscle mass and sticking to it, he would be burning lots of calories even he was sitting watching television. I’d ask if he would be willing to trade his lower calorie diet for one with higher calories but 3 hours of weight lifting and 3 hours of cardio every week. If he agrees, I hook him up with a personal trainer and he can give that a try. All I’ve provided him with is information and all I invested was the time to educate him about a different way to accomplish the same thing. 3.0 had a Master's Degree and she had to be told to come in out of the rain lest she get wet. Seems like that is a problem that should have shook out during Beta testing. According to previous reports, 1.0 and 2.0 also had serious flaws that slipped through Beta as well. Sounds like a QA issue. Also why IQ tests means nothing. Someone with a photogenic or eidetic memory can score off the charts on an IQ test and not have any real world sense. An example of that kind of person is Sheldon Cooper. Folks that don’t watch the Big Bang Theory won’t get the reference and folks who don’t regularly read the forums wont understand the significance.
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If he agrees, I hook him up with a personal trainer and he can give that a try. After which he pays someone to visit the trainer FOR him.... 3.0 had a Master's Degree and she had to be told to come in out of the rain lest she get wet. Enormous salaries tend to skew those test results. 3.0 was going to be my retirement plan. It soon became apparent that there isn't enough money in the world.... Quoting me: Also why IQ tests means nothing. Someone with a photogenic or eidetic memory can score off the charts on an IQ test and not have any real world sense. Quoting Keith: An example of that kind of person is Sheldon Cooper. Folks that don’t watch the Big Bang Theory won’t get the reference and folks who don’t regularly read the forums wont understand the significance. Quoting Sheldon in the DMV office: "How else are they going to learn?" I make it a point to never tell people they are wrong. However, I am happy to spend as much time as necessary explaining why I am right. Bedside manner is the least of my concerns. By a certain age, life should have seasoned people to a point where things don't need to be sugar coated. I will not acquiesce to the millennial mentality and contribute to the pussification of America. Heaven help this country when this generation of pansies comes into power. There will no longer be a militia to defend the country and the people we now call terrorists will have an open door to take over. And the response of the millennial power base will be to tweet about it and record the invasion on their cell phones for Facebook. Back to topic: practice, practice, practice remains the correct answer.
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I think there is no substitute for experience but how do you get experience. In the mid 70s I played behind a guy that would simply stand on stage and people would call a song, away he would go. There was no telling what key or anything else, basically you just played and sort of hoped it worked. It usually did but there were two tricks one was to know the song (if not that particular song others of the same ilk) the other was when not to play (if you are really lost then shut up).
Another really great place to learn was in country music clubs (jazz clubs, folk clubs etc all work). Here you would be backing other folk who often had chord charts or whatever but rarely managed to have them correct or would be off singing a song in a different key or in some cases a different song to what was written. Timing could be anywhere from a complete stop start to singing in 3/4 to 4/4 song. Very quickly you learn to adapt, improvise and where chords should go.
These days someone may ask me for a song so I design it in BIAB. I pick a suitable style and enter the chords often taking less than 10 mins to get the basic song down but it is almost instinctive that I know what the next chord should be based on the previous chords and style of music. Sure I’m not always 100% correct but amazingly close most of the time.
My two bobs worth. It is practice, working with others and heaps of experience.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 06/08/18 01:24 PM.
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here's my $0.02
When I was quite young (15), I used to play with David Peel. We played in Washington Square Park a lot, and he would turn away from me because he was working the crowd. Since I knew Dave only knew six or seven chords, I soon learned how one chord led to another - known as resolutions.
There aren't an infinite number of these, and they all make sense once you understand them.
Two years later, I started doing "club dates" (here in NY, that's what we call weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs, coming out parties, quadrilles, etc.) I'd be thrown in the lion's cage with guys who played with the big bands of the 30's and 40's, expected to play any song from any period, with no sheet music. Often without even given a key. That's when it REALLY clicked in.
Sure, I screwed up - a lot. Came home from gigs embarrassed and disgusted. But I figured out which resolutions I had trouble with and got to recognize them. I still get caught out sometimes, especially now that I'm old and lazy(er), but the fact is some chords lead to a few possible other chords. By learning songs such as "On The Street Where You Live", "Cherokee", "Stella By Starlight", "Have You Met Miss Jones", and really analyzing how they go from one chord to another, you'll get it.
You'll be able to play anything, pretty much on the spot, within the first chorus or two. As long as you know how the song goes. You might also listen to anything by that lunatic Burt Bacharach (I mean that in the most respectful way) and Steely Dan (Aja album) once you get the hang of it, just to test yourself. Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years" is a great model of using every damn note you can in the melody and choosing chords accordingly.
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I think there is no substitute for experience but how do you get experience. In the mid 70s I played behind a guy that would simply stand on stage and people would call a song, away he would go. <...snip...>
Tony
When I was a very young musician, there was a single act, an organist way out west in Ft Lauderdale in a bar that seemed to know anything (I think it was called The Hacienda Lounge). He would take requests from the audience, and I never saw him stumped. He was truly amazing. But I guess some people have a special talent for that, and take the time to develop it and make the most of it. My brother-in-law is in the club-date business. He knows hundreds and hundreds of songs. He also has a talent for very melodic solos, even on difficult songs. The club date people here do key signatures with fingers. Up is sharp, down is flat, and the number of fingers designate how many sharps or flats. A fist is either C or Am. I've never done the club date thing, but used to be a regular in a Sunday Jazz Jam. I didn't know the heads of all the songs they played, but I was blessed with a good ear and could fake my way through a solo on almost anything they threw at me. Here is another suggestion. Take the music in small chunks. Memorize the first 8 bars, which is often pretty much the A section. Start with the music, then see how far you can play without the music. When you screw up, do it with the music again, then take a couple of minuted doing something else - without your musical instrument. Then try again When you get the A section down, move on to the next. But be sure to play the A section every time you play the song (without the music). You will get the song 'under your fingers' this way. See if that works for you. Of course it will take time and practice, but it will be worth it. Insights and incites by Notes
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Which instrument are you intending on memorizing songs? Should have asked this awhile ago. On keys one of the exercises that will help you in live performance situations is to practice inversions as you move from chord to chord. Memorizing the feel of what this is like in all of the keys is an important skill, in my opinion. How to walk around on bass as you do this also helps to become smooth and seasoned. And you must mix in the practice of playing in front of others, if your intent is playing out; which you have posted about for the past several years as something you want to do.
The first time is nerve wracking and you probably won’t even remember most of it. Second time the same. After awhile,you’ll recall what happened and can adjust. But this outside force of performing in front of people needs to be part of your routine. You will never be fully ready for it so don’t wait.
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When you get the A section down, move on to the next. But be sure to play the A section every time you play the song ...
Insights and incites by Notes
I agree with Bob on this important part. This was the gist of my previous post. It is important to re-inforce the memory as you move ahead, it helps tie it all together and also affects muscle memory, making it more natural over time (you don't think about it so much as just play it). Keep repeating what you know so far, while adding the new stuff. After working in 'sections', do the same as you move on to new songs.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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And to REALLY factor in your proficiency on your instrument, practice blindfolded. Take away the crutches and you CAN'T walk with them.
When I was a younger man, I played a lot of basketball. I got to be okay as a strong side guard, shooting, setting picks and playing good defense. I wanted to be a point guard though. When I tried, all the defender had to do was take away my right hand and I was done. So one summer, I spent 2 hours twice a day playing in my backyard wearing a boxing glove on my right hand, forcing me to use only my left. That evolved into taping my right hand shut, but I spent that whole summer using only my left hand. I dribbled the ball off my shoes a lot, because that hand change also changed my footwork to the opposite side. Point being that I had to force myself out of my comfort zone. By fall, I could use either hand equally well.
But I will say in every post....
Practice. Practice. Practice.
If you want it bad enough, work hard to get there. There are no shortcuts that replace hard work and many repetitions.
When my keyboard rig expanded to where I had a keyboard set at 90 degree on my left hand, I found that I had to reach there without looking a lot to play a part. I just put a piece of roadie tape on the A above middle C and I cold feel where that tape was and know where to play. Again, that took a lot of practice. How bad do you want to accomplish this? That, and what you hope to accomplish, will determine how many hours you need to put into it. If you want to get just proficient enough to sit around the campfire and strum, you can do that far more easily than playing your local House Of Blues where people pay 30 bucks a ticket to see you.
Practice. Practice. Practice.
Last edited by eddie1261; 06/09/18 07:04 AM.
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When I was a very young musician, there was a single act, an organist way out west in Ft Lauderdale in a bar that seemed to know anything (I think it was called The Hacienda Lounge). Notes, I will apologize in advance, but I HAD to do this joke. When you were a very young musician, that bar must have been an underground speakeasy place right, since it was likely during Prohibition. (Is there an icon for "duck and run"?)
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Nah, Florida wasn't even a state yet Notes
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Here's my 2 cents on the original question and the recurring capo discussion:
1) If your goal is to be a master musician then follow the strictest advice offered by everybody
2) But, knowing what I know about Joe, I think his goal is to play music informally for the purpose of entertaining friends and maybe earn a buck now and then. That is a very different goal. I think Joe is looking for the shortest route to actualizing his personal goal (which is much lower than the goal of playing at Carnegie Hall)
I'm a lot like Joe, so I offer my own experience as one path to having fun as an entertainer in a world where you aren't a virtuoso.
When I played in bands, I was solely responsible for playing guitar. I could block out everything except the position of my fingers on the fretboard. If I needed barre chords, no problem. I knew where they were, and there was nothing to distract me from getting to the right fret. 100% of my attention was focused on playing guitar.
Later when I started booking solo gigs with backing tracks, it was a different ballgame, because I was suddenly responsible for everything... remembering chords, lyrics, solos, making changes to the mix on the fly etc. I discovered that multitasking meant that instead of having 100% of my attention on the guitar, I suddenly had 25% on the guitar, 25% on the lyrics, 25% on the mix with the rest being divided by distractions from the audience, trying to remember how to start the guitar solo etc. Every time my attention shifted for any reason, I'd start missing the target fret and then the song would crash & burn.
So I switched to a capo approach for a couple of reasons:
1) the changes are so familiar its easy to auto-pilot
2) I never had to worry about missing the target fret for barre chords
3) some of the covers I was playing were originally recorded with a capo, and the only way to duplicate the original sound is to use a capo.
4) I accidentally started to understand the value of the nashville system.
5) after switching to a system in which I always played 1st position chords, I no longer needed a chord sheet... which surprised me a little, because I had hundreds of active songs
Having said all this... while I was still trying to establish this act, I practiced a lot. I treated it like my job, waking up every morning , going to my music room and playing thru / working on the set list until my daughter came home from work at 5:30 pm. No matter which approach you take, a certain amount of practice is going to be necessary.
All the advice in this thread is potentially helpful. The real question is which advice you are most likely to follow up on. No advice is helpful if you don't follow it.
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So I switched to a capo approach As stupid as this is going to sound for someone who started playing guitar at age 11, I CAN'T use a capo. It makes me think WAY too much. Couple that with perfect pitch (That has receded back into near perfect pitch over time) and when my ear hears a chord, I go right to that fingering relative to the fret markers. Those fret markers are BURNED into my brain. If I know a song in C and the singer wants to do it in E flat, it would be easy enough to put a capo on the 3rd fret and play the same fingerings using the capo as the nut, right? Nope. I suddenly start to think too much about fret markers and "Well, when I played this in C, the 6 minor was A minor, and that fingers here, so what do I do now when the 6 minor is suddenly C minor and the way I know to play C minor is to barre the 3rd fret but this metal clip on thingy is on that fret and in my way so what do I do", rather than be able to "think C" and finger it the same way, like an A minor, but viewing the capo as the nut. Believe me, I tried many times. If I have to think and not just play instinctively, it's really awful. So with you being able to use a capo, you are a solid one up on me.
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As stupid as this is going to sound for someone who started playing guitar at age 11, I CAN'T use a capo. Eddie, I think you are a very intelligent man, and therefore nothing you could possibly say sounds stupid to me. I think you very accurately pointed out that we're all different people with different learning styles and aptitudes.
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I am with you Eddie I have tried capos and failed I would much rather Barr the chord and play that way. I used to find putting a capo on would often knock the guitar out of tune (maybe in my mind) unless you really took your time. Also a big chunk of metal as the nut got in the way. I had some light capos I think there is one in my guitar case but I never use them.
Others however are very successful with them.
Tony
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I rarely use a capo but when I do I capo responsibly  No really I rarely use a capo. I only use it when I am doing an old country or folk song that need to have the open chord ringing sound that I can't get with barre chords. Roughly I would guess that is about 1% of my guitar playing.
Last edited by MarioD; 06/10/18 12:49 PM.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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If you think capos are only for wimps; https://youtu.be/pS0cEWwWnGQ
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Hi Don, I would never suggest capos are for wimps but as Tommy points out capos can knock a guitar out of tune. Usually when doing live shows to be standing on stage playing around putting a capo on, then making sure tuning is fine seems to be a distraction to me. I prefer not to unless I am really forced to which I find is very rarely. Playing an Eb (or any chord up the neck with the C shaped chord) is not an issue for me. Using 2 fingers to play an A shape anywhere on the neck is the same and this method also leaves 2 fingers for playing fills etc. Rarely do I find myself with the need to be hitting all 6 strings, I don’t often need use all 4 fingers to play chords. Tony
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Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,587
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Jan 19th, 2020
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