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Hi Chris That is an interesting read thank you.
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Yeah of course one can find exceptions to try and disprove a simple general truth. My point is that people like Robbins completely understand human behavior and they know full well that 99.9% of their customers (marks) cannot or will not achieve the results they are selling. To blame/shame the victim of a scam is wrong in my opinion. And generally speaking I find Robbins to be a scammer on the level of televangelists! I do agree with you that people need to put in the effort to realize the achievements. I just don't wanna be too critical of Grandma because a slick conman tricked her out of her life's savings! 
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 07/31/18 04:10 AM.
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Has anyone heard of The Starmaker Machine? They guarantee success in The Music Business.  Regards, Bob
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Yeah of course one can find exceptions to try and disprove a simple general truth.
Me finding exceptions? Don't you think you offering the who person playing taking guitar lessons was maybe the exception, and I simply showed you possibility? lol My point is that people like Robbins completely understand human behavior and they know full well that 99.9% of their customers (marks) cannot or will not achieve the results they are selling. To blame/shame the victim of a scam is wrong in my opinion. And generally speaking I find Robbins to be a scammer on the level of televangelists! I don't see that as victim shaming at all. To me, a victim is someone that had something done to them against their will. Rape would be a prime example. Someone hit by a drunk driver another. Someone taking guitar lessons for years, going to see guitar seminars, purchasing thousands in equipment only to eventually just end up quitting. Scammed? Victim? I don't think so. I see TR as similar. Just my opinion of course. It's a choice someone made. I do agree with you that people need to put in the effort to realize the achievements. I just don't wanna be too critical of Grandma because a slick conman tricked her out of her life's savings! Really building that victim role. I don't think you know of a grandma that some conman tricked out of her life savings. It sure is dramatic to throw out there though! Let's hope grandma never took guitar lessons!  Anyway, we both have been unpopular at different points for our views. Hopefully someone is getting a good chuckle out of this! I know I am. I'm actually typing all of this with a smile on my face. The one universal truth I have taken from JC's post is whatever the path, it takes effort. That level of effort is in direct correlation to the desire level of the goal. It's not always timely. Luck comes into play to some extent. That amount varies depending on the person you ask. And ultimately, I like what Bud said. We are all talking about what it takes and are tapping on a nail with our shoe. He came in with a big arse hammer and took care of it. Love that guy! Enjoy your day everyone.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I do agree with you that people need to put in the effort to realize the achievements. I just don't wanna be too critical of Grandma because a slick conman tricked her out of her life's savings! I don't think you know of a grandma that some conman tricked out of her life savings. Conning elderly is big business! https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/25/elder-financial-fraud-is-36-billion-and-growing.htmllevel of effort is in direct correlation to the desire level of the goal. It's not always timely. Luck comes into play to some extent. But the fact remains that some goals are not accomplishable by some people. Some are not accomplishable by the vast majority. And cons like Robbins know that all too well and earn an incredible living taking advantage of that fact. I just feel it is highly unethical to knowingly prey on people's hopes and dreams while counting on their gullibility to fill your bank account.
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Hmmmmm...success. Interesting topic. As always, a pretty-sounding word in search of a definition.
My first book is titled How to Mind-Read Your Customers. It has been translated into numerous languages. It is interesting to me that I have received thousands of emails and comments from readers across the world all pointing to ONE passage in the book where a good friend of mine told me the only piece of advice he ever received from his New York City marketing guru Dad when he was growing up on the subject of success.
He said the ONE and ONLY piece of advice his Dad gave him when he was growing up was:
"Son, I just want you to go out there in the world and help as many people as you can every single day expecting absolutely nothing in return and everything else in life will take care of itself."
Every time I mention this to someone, or they read it, they say: "That's it."
Both my friend and his Dad are super successful in worldly terms and probably have 3,000 close friends who would take a bullet for them.
I consider myself a success at this ripe old age because of all the friends I have and all the adventures I have had along the way. I cannot think of anything material. They say that when you publish your first book the sense of elation will last about 15 seconds and it is true. That stuff is so ephemeral. There is small success, medium success and huge success--but if that external stuff is what matters most you will be a drug addict in no time. I think you have to look for something else.
Most of my life now is wrapped up in mentoring, helping and stuff like that and I love it when I can help some person get one step closer to where they are trying to go.
I think what J3 said about the reality of success in Nashville is acutely on target, but that is a rough row to hoe, and the chance of failure is about 99.99 % if super stardom is your goal.
One of the saddest things in life to me is that so many people already ARE successful in all the areas that really count but they just can't see it. And that is the root of human misery.
The root of human joy--IMHO--is appreciating what you have while still having enough discipline to practice or write many hours a day (or whatever it is that you love to do) "expecting nothing in return."
If you just keep writing for the love it, I know, sometimes the most miraculous things come out of nowhere.
But you have to do it for the love of it, not a quest for fame.
Just my two cents. And if I have any "wisdom" I have plenty of bruises and scars and direct sledgehammer hits to the skull from God to show for it I can tell you that.
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<...snip...>
The Beatles had a great manager and plenty of practice so when the opportunity arose they were poised to jump on it. <...> And if they didn't find that great manager, they would have most likely stayed another bar band. That's where the luck comes in. And someone mentioned you can make your luck. More precisely you can increase your odds of being lucky by being in the places where music is being made like Nashville. You can increase your odds of meeting the right person by networking. Everybody seems to have very interesting points here. You have to work your bottoms off, you have to be prepared, you have to network to meet the right people, you have to try to be in the right place at the right time, and all of that increases your luck at getting the big prize. And yes, it's still luck. And if you are shooting for stardom, be prepared to fail, because for every one that makes it, there are thousands that don't. On the other hand, if you can still make a living at what you consider your bliss, and live not worrying how to pay the rent or where the next meal is coming from, can you really consider yourself a failure? I think that word is too strong. I've been there, in the limelight, stars of the day treating me like an equal, playing to packed houses and sometimes outperforming the stars that followed us, recording tracks in Motown's downtown Detroit studios, and almost making the big time. I made several attempts after that, none of them even that successful. So for the rest of my life I still made my living doing music and nothing but music. Following my bliss. Although I put in way more than 40 hours a week at this, it doesn't feel like work, because there is no drudgery. The only dull part is setting up and tearing down the gear. But that's like cooking a great meal and cleaning up after. It's just what I do. So no I didn't quite make the big time, but that isn't the only measure of success. I'm making a living following by bliss, the mortgage is paid, I've traveled much of the world (another bliss) and my only debt is car payments. And since I put about half down, the payments are low. So I wasn't a success at stardom, but I am successful at making a living by following my bliss. I'm living my life on my own terms, I'm not a subordinate to anybody, I met and married the woman of my dreams (if only I knew enough to dream this person), my wife is my duo mate and 24/7 isn't enough time together, we have hundreds of fans, we have clients that have been hiring us for up to 40 years now, we have a weekday house gig that will be going on 11 years in October, and I'm happy. I LOVE my life. That's success Not everybody would agree with that. To some it's all or nothing. But in any career that's tough. There are thousands of chefs making a living cooking great food that never make the big time and become a Wolfgang Puck type celebrity. To me failure would have been settling for a career in electronics, retail sales, or some wage slave to a faceless corporation. But that's me. It doesn't necessarily apply to anybody else. Again, it comes down to what you call success and if you consider that there are different levels of success. Insights and incites by Notes
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And always remember: The size of your heart is not measured by how much you love others, but by how much others love you.
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Hmmmmm...success. Interesting topic. As always, a pretty-sounding word in search of a definition.
My first book is titled How to Mind-Read Your Customers. It has been translated into numerous languages. It is interesting to me that I have received thousands of emails and comments from readers across the world all pointing to ONE passage in the book where a good friend of mine told me the only piece of advice he ever received from his New York City marketing guru Dad when he was growing up on the subject of success.
He said the ONE and ONLY piece of advice his Dad gave him when he was growing up was:
"Son, I just want you to go out there in the world and help as many people as you can every single day expecting absolutely nothing in return and everything else in life will take care of itself."
Every time I mention this to someone, or they read it, they say: "That's it."
Both my friend and his Dad are super successful in worldly terms and probably have 3,000 close friends who would take a bullet for them.
I consider myself a success at this ripe old age because of all the friends I have and all the adventures I have had along the way. I cannot think of anything material. They say that when you publish your first book the sense of elation will last about 15 seconds and it is true. That stuff is so ephemeral. There is small success, medium success and huge success--but if that external stuff is what matters most you will be a drug addict in no time. I think you have to look for something else.
Most of my life now is wrapped up in mentoring, helping and stuff like that and I love it when I can help some person get one step closer to where they are trying to go.
I think what J3 said about the reality of success in Nashville is acutely on target, but that is a rough row to hoe, and the chance of failure is about 99.99 % if super stardom is your goal.
One of the saddest things in life to me is that so many people already ARE successful in all the areas that really count but they just can't see it. And that is the root of human misery.
The root of human joy--IMHO--is appreciating what you have while still having enough discipline to practice or write many hours a day (or whatever it is that you love to do) "expecting nothing in return."
If you just keep writing for the love it, I know, sometimes the most miraculous things come out of nowhere.
But you have to do it for the love of it, not a quest for fame.
Just my two cents. And if I have any "wisdom" I have plenty of bruises and scars and direct sledgehammer hits to the skull from God to show for it I can tell you that.
Brilliant post!
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duplicate post...
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 07/31/18 05:48 AM.
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<...snip...>
The Beatles had a great manager and plenty of practice so when the opportunity arose they were poised to jump on it. <...> And if they didn't find that great manager, they would have most likely stayed another bar band. That's where the luck comes in. And someone mentioned you can make your luck. More precisely you can increase your odds of being lucky by being in the places where music is being made like Nashville. You can increase your odds of meeting the right person by networking. Everybody seems to have very interesting points here. You have to work your bottoms off, you have to be prepared, you have to network to meet the right people, you have to try to be in the right place at the right time, and all of that increases your luck at getting the big prize. And yes, it's still luck. And if you are shooting for stardom, be prepared to fail, because for every one that makes it, there are thousands that don't. On the other hand, if you can still make a living at what you consider your bliss, and live not worrying how to pay the rent or where the next meal is coming from, can you really consider yourself a failure? I think that word is too strong. I've been there, in the limelight, stars of the day treating me like an equal, playing to packed houses and sometimes outperforming the stars that followed us, recording tracks in Motown's downtown Detroit studios, and almost making the big time. I made several attempts after that, none of them even that successful. So for the rest of my life I still made my living doing music and nothing but music. Following my bliss. Although I put in way more than 40 hours a week at this, it doesn't feel like work, because there is no drudgery. The only dull part is setting up and tearing down the gear. But that's like cooking a great meal and cleaning up after. It's just what I do. So no I didn't quite make the big time, but that isn't the only measure of success. I'm making a living following by bliss, the mortgage is paid, I've traveled much of the world (another bliss) and my only debt is car payments. And since I put about half down, the payments are low. So I wasn't a success at stardom, but I am successful at making a living by following my bliss. I'm living my life on my own terms, I'm not a subordinate to anybody, I met and married the woman of my dreams (if only I knew enough to dream this person), my wife is my duo mate and 24/7 isn't enough time together, we have hundreds of fans, we have clients that have been hiring us for up to 40 years now, we have a weekday house gig that will be going on 11 years in October, and I'm happy. I LOVE my life. That's success Not everybody would agree with that. To some it's all or nothing. But in any career that's tough. There are thousands of chefs making a living cooking great food that never make the big time and become a Wolfgang Puck type celebrity. To me failure would have been settling for a career in electronics, retail sales, or some wage slave to a faceless corporation. But that's me. It doesn't necessarily apply to anybody else. Again, it comes down to what you call success and if you consider that there are different levels of success. Insights and incites by Notes Another brilliant post! Success certainly does not have to include enormous wealth!
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I'm not certain I'd agree Brian Epstein "luckily" stumbled onto the Beatles. He was actively seeking a band to manage and heard about them, purposely sought them out, approached them and was a capable salesman. At the time he encountered the Beatles, they were a top band in the Liverpool market.
There's certainly truth to many people luckily being in the right place at the right time. Check out Warren Huart's (Produce Like A Pro) interview with Richard Furch on YouTube. Prince happened to drop into a session where Richard was a intern, Prince liked a mix Richard did and asked who did the mix. Later, out of the blue, he contacted and hired Richard to work for him...
Here's a story I recently shared with someone that shows it's better to work smart than hard...
A college student with no other income created a self employed dog walking business and charged $16 per dog and was walking three dogs once per weekday. $48 a day, $240 per week. He really enjoyed the time, peace and companionship. From a casual conversation with a friend who was a financial consultant, the friend developed a plan that the student gave free walks in exchange for his customers to allow him to place advertisements at their businesses and he recruited 4 other friends to become dog walkers as his business grew, increased some of his customers dog walks to twice a day and grew his side business into a $250,000 a year gross income. Walking dogs... There's got to be a hit song hidden in that story somewhere!
I worked the math to see how that could realistically be true. Interesting findings. 4 walkers @ 5 dogs walking three different groups (including the 2nd walk for some clients.) 60 dogs walked per day @ $16 = $960... X 260 days per year = $249,600. Even if he was splitting the $16 charge with his workers, that's $125,000 for walking dogs. Entirely possible. It's not the product but increasing the amount of time dedicated to earning money...
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Has anyone heard of The Starmaker Machine? They guarantee success in The Music Business. Tell me more Bob!
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He said the ONE and ONLY piece of advice his Dad gave him when he was growing up was:
"Son, I just want you to go out there in the world and help as many people as you can every single day expecting absolutely nothing in return and everything else in life will take care of itself."
Every time I mention this to someone, or they read it, they say: "That's it."
Ah ah! Now something just hit me.... I am busy listening to Ray Dalio principles and on the way to work this morning he said "Most people try to get as much as they can while doing as little as possible" Bam! That is directly opposed to the David's quote above where you "Do as much as possible and expect (read get) as little as possible in return". However, what does come to mind when I think about David's quote is "Don't sell yourself short", "Don't perform for free", "I should be paid what I am worth... " etc... For me personally the financial freedom to do things that I love like hiking, sailing, skiing and travelling is very important. Thus, "Let go, expect nothing in return while working hard" does not really sit well with me. I don't want to spend my life doing things expecting nothing in return and actually GETTING nothing in return and living off two minute noodles in my old age. Lol... Maybe "success" is a combination of the two. Ie "Do things and expect to be paid what those things are worth in return". The key may very well be in "what are those things worth". So coming back to music, in the current climate "songs" may not actually be worth very much since there is SO much good quality music coming out of people's basements and it is simply a matter of supply and demand. (I seem to be rambling a bit, but just getting my thoughts out there. LOL)
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
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I am not usually the most optimistic person, but I suppose overall being able to get up in the morning in reasonable good health, and being able to do things for the love and enjoyment of it, like playing music is success in itself.
And as we get a little older I think its even more important that we count our blessings.
If someone really wants to be famous on TV or have a big musical hit, then that's fine too, it Might happen, even if it doesn't, nice dream to have, and even thinking or imagining it can give a little enjoyment in itself.
Mentioning the Beatles being so successful is not really a good example in my book, they were in Music but lets not forget, Lennon was killed at the young age of 40 simply because he was a Beatle.
If any of us was given the choice to loose years of our life just for the sake of being famous, I'm sure which path most of us would choose.
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Joanne,
For the sake of propriety, I will not mention these two gentlemen by name, but they are extremely successful above and beyond what many people have in terms of worldly success and have certain "keys to the kingdom" that other people don't have.
But it all came from helping as many people as they could "expecting nothing in return" and then those people they had helped were always there to help them. Their network of fiercely loyal allies numbers in the thousands.
I have seen such people raise millions of dollars for a charity by the end of the day by placing three phone calls, then those three people said "if it is important to you Joe.." and then those three people called three people [add exponent, add exponent, and so on] and then by the end of the day, millions had been raised. But the first person on the line was the "help as many people as you can..." person. As my friend said: "You can literally see the switchboard of the United States light up when that first call is made." That is the "secret."
So, I think the response here is not what I am saying. I am not saying work for free. I am saying what this father taught his son about putting others FIRST does always work out best in the end if your heart is in the right place.
I cannot count the number of people who consider themselves a failure who got that backwards.
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Success..... depends on the person's definition of success.
Do you define setting on the front porch playing the music you love, as success, or does it mean sold out arenas with 30 thousand fans on a 6 month world tour and a #1 album with massive airplay?
Going hell bent for leather can cause problems. With the driven kind of personality that is required to maintain that attitude for extended periods of time, there tends to be lot;s of casualties along the way. Marriages and health are just two of the things that suffer as a result of that HBFL kind of drive to be a success.
Nashville, NYC, LA, among other places are filled with this kind of person. I've met them. Extremely talented and driven to achieve their goals. However, the truth is, there's not room at the top for everyone. Not everyone can be a star regardless of the talent one has. I've seen lots of people who are extremely proficient at writing, singing, and playing an instrument, doing the equivalent of setting on the street corner playing for tips and change.
When you read, or hear the back stories of many of the big stars, you find a certain level of drive, but you also find more often, they love what they do, do it fairly well, and just happened to be in the right place at the right time and met the right people. They all sacrificed something to get where they are. The question is, what are you willing to sacrifice to get to where you want to be?
Personal satisfaction in doing what you want, the way you want, on your own terms, and when you want, is another definition of success. The crowds aren't a factor, other people liking what you do, or even liking you, isn't a factor....as long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters. Just look at Jed Clampett. He epitomizes this kind of success. Yeah, I know he's a TV character in an old TV show, but there's a lot to be learned from his character about true success in life.
Too many people consider themselves a failure if they have not achieved some level of fortune and fame in their lives. Having millions in the bank is nice but it doesn't always make one happy. Being a super star in the music business doesn't make one happy necessarily. Look at all the folks who have achieved that level of material "success" and are miserable, lonely, in poor health, have a trial of broken marriages behind them, or have committed suicide as a result of things in their life.
The way I define success is being content and happy with where you are in life. Achieve that, and you can say you are successful.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hi Herb
Yeah I thought we may all get tied up on our definitions of success and I do believe that everyone has (and should have) their own definition.
I would personally define success as being financially independent, healthy, having meaningful work and having meaningful relationships.
I want to be able to afford to do the things I want to do. I want my heath to allow me to do things that I want to do and that someone my age should be able to do. I want to have the time to spend it with people I want to spend it with. I want to have work that mentally stimulates me.
It’s a lot to aim for I know so it still beggars the question on whether to trust that I will get all that or if I’m going to have to go after it hell for leather.....
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Replace the “or” in the thread title with “and” and you will find out soon enough if it’s God’s will..
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Hi Herb
.............. I would personally define success as being financially independent, healthy, having meaningful work and having meaningful relationships.
I want to be able to afford to do the things I want to do. I want my heath to allow me to do things that I want to do and that someone my age should be able to do. I want to have the time to spend it with people I want to spend it with. I want to have work that mentally stimulates me.
It’s a lot to aim for I know so it still beggars the question on whether to trust that I will get all that or if I’m going to have to go after it hell for leather..... well.... I had to work like hell bent for leather to get what I wanted....and a little of the divine intervention of putting me in the right place at the right time didn't hurt either.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,620
Posts735,183
Members38,518
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Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
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lol Just my opinion.
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