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I didn't read the entire story.....skimmed it. But.... Kinda like those old cars with points and condensers and manual transmissions. I like the computer controlled automatic transmission cars. I've had both. Same deal with tape vs digital. I've had tape machines in 4 track and been in studios with much larger machines. Editing and working with tape is a PITA. Cut and splice took a phenomenal amount of skill and patience to get it right. I much prefer the digital domain. Regarding the whole "analog sounds better" argument...... I don't buy it. I've heard some really astounding all digital music. Listen to "Trio" on CD. (Parton Harris and Ronstadt)....Oh My! But KUDO's to the guys keeping the old gear working. Selling an analog session to someone is, in my opinion, similar to selling those Low-Oxygen Audio cables that cost upwards of $2,000 to someone. Can you hear the difference? Probably not, but if the consumer of said service/product thinks it's worth the cost... and can afford it.... who's to stop them from doing it? I have always approached the digital domain like it was a tape world. Use only the tracks you absolutely need. If the take wasn't good, delete it and record it again. Don't save it if it was bad. The best comment in the whole story is this: “If you can’t get a song down in 24 tracks, maybe it wasn’t a very good song in the first place.” Larry Crane
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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That was my favorite line too Herb.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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That was also my favorite line.
I think one of the biggest differences between the analog recording days and today is that in the analog days the musician needed to know the song prior to recording. Today musicians can record practices when trying to come up with the right part and even then it may come down to cut and paste.
How many takes/tracks would The Wrecking Crew need to record the right part? My guess would be two at the most, with no cutting or pasting!
Note - my recording comments were for most bands and not all of them. Some bands like The Beatles or The Rolling Stones could do whatever they wanted in a studio.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Really interesting article, Bud  I find it fascinating how it made such a strong comeback. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Deryk
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While I love the sound of old analog recordings, I can't imagine multi-tracking to tape in 2018.
Technically, that warmth we get and love from tape is distortion, but it's nice distortion, and we can introduce it in other ways.
Some techno producers send their finished mixes to tape and re-record it back into their DAW, whether it's reel-to-reel machine, studio tape betamax (saturates nicely when overdriven apparently), or a Tascam Portastudio to get that sound.
I run my synths through an analog mixer and an old DBX compressor, and often through a Strymon Deco tape saturation pedal, before they hit my interface, and in my DAW, Waves' Kramer Master Tape and Soundtoys Decapitator plugins can warm up digital recordings or soft synths that sound too sterile.
Cheers
Kent
PG Music
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Two thoughts relevant to the article: Tape Op is a great print and digital magazine. You can receive the magazine FOR FREE! just by going to the web site and signing up. What's that? What web site? +++ Tape Op . com +++ My brother, Charlie Fogle, has been a very strong advocate for approaching Band-in-a-Box and it's track limitations the same way you would approach recording using a eight track recorder. You are not limited to eight instruments all you have to do is plan how to obtain maximum use of each track. By bouncing, using the "empty" space in each track you can create as good a song as you could with RealBand or with another DAW. The main point of the article seemed to be plan out your song before you start recording.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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This may seem "off topic" but bear with me. I will get there. I have definitely been the "worst of all sinners" when it comes to having used way too many effects on occasion. For me it has not been a tape vs. digital problem--it has been a going-way-too-crazy with-digital-effects problem. But, I still feel (and this is just me) that the most beautiful sound in the world is a great old steel string (or nylon) guitar with no effects properly mic'ed mixed right in your face. I am sure other players feel the same way about their chosen instruments of choice. Point is--keep it simple then build, whether tape or digital, no matter what you are playing. I can't lie: I love recording on tape, but it is not that feasible these days. In the digital world there are plenty of VSTs that can give you a warm tape emulation/saturation effect that works pretty well, as long as there aren't a million other effects going. The Cakewalk Bandlab DAW has some great tools in the ProChannel that can help you warm stuff up. So, I am preaching at myself, really. I tell myself every day, you CAN get a good simple sound, and it will be kinda like tape, but dude, you have to play some wood and back off of those effects. Just trying to stay clean. One day at time y'all.
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Same deal with tape vs digital. I've had tape machines in 4 track and been in studios with much larger machines. Editing and working with tape is a PITA. Cut and splice took a phenomenal amount of skill and patience to get it right. I much prefer the digital domain. Regarding the whole "analog sounds better" argument...... I don't buy it. Nor do I.....but, to each their own. I grew up in the analog recording world just like many here. I've had/recorded on (4) track cassette machines and (2) R/R machines (the TEAC A3440S and the Fostex Model 80) which served me well as true work horses for well over 20 years. But, the maintenance required was a total time vampire....and I did the maintenance religiously every day. I still have my old head de-magnetizer though in a box....somewhere. Those days are done for me....I'd never go back. If the analog trend is real and that demographic continues to grow I'll be investing heavily in Johnson & Johnson Q-tips and pinch roller rubber cleaner. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 08/06/18 07:18 AM.
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Yeah.... back in the day, as was mentioned in the story.... you had to spend a lot of time setting up the machine, cleaning and de-gaussing the heads, setting bias for the tape you were using.... and the whole project could be ruined if the tape jumped the reels, as was common on the 4 track machines, or you had the brakes set wrong and they slammed and stretched the tape. (Witness the glitch in John Lennon's Cold Turkey recording)
We can get the warmth from distortion plug ins or tube mic preamps..... and I would bet the tape afficianado's couldn't tell the difference.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I would bet the tape afficianado's couldn't tell the difference. ....wouldn't that be an enthusiastic forum thread. (I'm outta here) Back to it....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 08/06/18 10:45 AM.
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I worked a lot with analogue in the days when there wasn't a choice and I have to say that
sitting behind a large-format console in the warm light of the VUs, creates a feeling which
simply can't be matched by sitting behind a large computer monitor. As to the sound, however,
I agree with most of what's been said already.
There is one spin-off though, which creates a difference between the sound of analogue and digital and
that's the Cut-Copy-Paste function. Back in the 70s, I did a lot of session work on guitar and bass and
it was necessary to play the song right through, with all the attendant natural variations that it
introduced.
These days I see people copying single bars, pasting them up to make a verse, and then copy and pasting
the verse to make the song. When the whole song is created in this fashion, it becomes too clinically
perfect - like quantizing piano parts to 100%. OK, so it doesn't have to be this way, but how many of
us are guilty of this? After all, it's just so easy and I have to admit to copying the odd track
myself. When I feel I'm falling into this trap, I go back and listen to the Stones, Beatles, Kinks,
and other 60s recordings, with their organic live feel and it gets me back into line.
It was just a thought....
ROG.
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I've often referred to that 'live feel' as a goal in our recordings/mixes. I agree, it adds a lot to the end result, at least for me.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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ROG, I would have to say this is my whole MO in a nutshell, what you have described. If I am doing a guitar lead and I mess up, I start over and do it again, because it just won't have that organic, crazy vibe if you don't. You lose something in the emotion and "soul" when you start to cut and paste, and to me soul is EVERYTHING. Same with vocals. If I mess up a vocal, I usually just start over, because it is really hard to maintain the intensity or passion of a vocal with cut and paste. Some people tell me they do it, and spend all this time on edits and pitch shifting, and I say to myself "Yeah, it sounds perfect, true, but where's the rock and roll gone to?" Acoustic guitar? Fuhgetaboutit... Start over man...
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These days I see people copying single bars, pasting them up to make a verse, and then copy and pasting
the verse to make the song. When the whole song is created in this fashion, it becomes too clinically
perfect - like quantizing piano parts to 100%. OK, so it doesn't have to be this way, but how many of
us are guilty of this?
ROG.
I never do the cut and paste thing, if I'm recording a rhythm guitar part I play it through from start to finish. Doesn't take that long, most of our songs are 4 minutes or less. For solos, if I record one I don't like I'll just record over top of it until I get one I do like. I don't believe in recording multiple solos and then cutting and pasting the best bits from each to build a solo, although I guess that is done quite a bit. My one exception, if I record a solo that I really liked and had good "feel" but I muffed a note, I have no problem with punching in a good note. But even SRV did that on occasion
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As far as Cut/Paste goes, here it depends on the performer.
If we've recorded 4 or 5 takes it's time to start considering whether you have enough to cut/paste a track.
Spending half a day just getting the track down is not an efficient work flow.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I'm with Dave on this. I never cut and paste a lead together. I try to get everything in one take but on occasions I will blow a part. Then I will either record the track again or punch in and punch out the bad section.
IMHO you lose the vibe when you cut and paste. I feel the same if you re-record the same track over 4 times. The feel is gone. I'll take the first take even with a few warts over a dull track anytime.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I wondering if some missed your comment? I agree on the "bit holier than thou" BIG TIME. Thanks for sharing it Bud! I made a MAJOR edit of my post. The above is probably all that I should have said.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 08/12/18 06:05 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I never comp (cut/paste)Janice’s vocal. She’s always nails it on the first or second take. When she says she’s ready to record she means it But I’m a comping fool when it comes to RT’s and RD’s. My objective is to get fills, turnarounds, intros, outros and short solos that at best support the vocal and at worst do not distract from it. I always feel presumptuous comping great BiaB studio musician’s tracks but what the heck it “seems” to enhance the production. And, yeah, I did it during my early cut/splice tape days also although with very minimal edits. I don’t miss that. Bud
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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