Hi Fellows. I have a question about Intros. This probably had been discussed a thousand times, but I would appreciate a condensed, simple to understand answer.
I got a hang of main features of BIAB that I need, but "intros" (and endings) are a bit of a challenge for me.
This is how I understand it designed to work when building "intros": 1) Dedicate "X" number of bars for Intro. 2) Input Chords. 3) Use "Bar settings" to Solo/ Mute /Volume /Patch particular inst. or Real track 4)Use Drum variation Blue/ Green. 5)* Use Count in drums.... 6)Use a dedicated realtrack(s) for intro that is muted throughout the song
Have been experimenting with things mentioned above, but feels to me that my intros are a bit "liquid". My question is, how do you built a pronounced intro if for example all the real tracks used in composition are... I do not know how to say it right "versy"...? Like a cutout from the middle of song.
Please let me know or point me to the right direction. Thank you for your time!
You're off to a good start. I'm not sure I would have explained things the way you did but I certainly understood what you mean.
If you're going to rely strictly on the Band-in-a-Box program for instrumentation you're way works but you can improve the process.
Muting and unmuting tracks works but limits the number of RealTracks you can use. This is where using your keyboard's F5 button opens up a bunch of possibilities for you. Move your cursor to any bar then press F5. Look toward the top of the F5 window (in the red box). Notice there are button to clear RealDrums and RealTracks as well as buttons to select RealDrums and RealTracks. There is also a button to change style selections. Think of the possibilities.
Last edited by Jim Fogle; 09/01/1812:19 PM. Reason: Removed unused screenshot.
Jim, Thank you for the tip! This is helpful! How do you go back to original style later in the composition?
Please let me know. Thank you!
P.S. Coming back to our previous conversation. Great features, awkward implementation. I wish these features would be on the mixer, maybe expanded "changes" tracks. So you can visually see what is going on.
You press F5 at the return bar and select the original style. There is a small gotcha that I'll mention in a minute.
Lets say you want to make a song using two styles that are similar such as _DIXMCLS (dixieland with a clarinet solo) and _DIXMGTS (dixieland with an acoustic guitar solo). The clarinet will be the highlight instrument for most of the song but the acoustic guitar will be the solo instrument for eight bars. Select _DIXMCLS as the original song style. When you want the acoustic guitar to start (lets say bar 9), press F5 to open the bar settings window and press either the .STY button to open the StylePicker window or Open to open a Windows Explorer window and select the _DIXMGTS style. At bar 17 press F5 and reverse the process by selecting the original style, _DIXMGTS.
One of the wonders of Band-in-a-Box is it will automatically perform cross fades and make the necessary adjustments for the transitions to sound natural! The program does much of the background work you would have to do if you were cutting and pasting in any other program.
Now the gotcha. There maybe a time when you want a song to use both 3/4 and 4/4 styles. When that happens you MUST use the 4/4 style first. When a song starts in 3/4 time many users add an extra bar to the beginning of the song, start with a 4/4 style on bar one and mute all instruments. Than use F5 at bar two to switch to a 3/4 style and select "back to normal" volume change.
Jim, interesting stuff. Thank you for your time and for boiling everything down to one bowl of steamy stew
Still, a question please.
Lets say I change the style and realtracks somewhere in the middle of composition, is it possible to change everything back to original style and "changed at bar" realtracks to original state (before the "change at the bar" stuff) simple way or I have to load everything back manually?
If I follow correctly, my understanding is that you need to apply further changes of styles to revert back to the original. I don't believe that there is a single restore option.
So if you start with style ABC and then switch to style DEF (and maybe further along to GHI) and then want to go back to ABC, then you need to use F5 at the required bar and select style to ABC.
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VideoTrack, Thank you for explanation. Ok, if there is no simple way to go back to original, ABC style...what about copying the Original ABC bar and pasting to location where I want to "go back" to ABC? Would that change Style/realtracks from whatever previously chosen to ABC? Including all "bar changes" of original ABC?
P.S. I am traveling now and can not test it.
P.S.S. This is probably not the right place, but I think it would make a lot of sence to have a simple, visual track arranger that can be recalled from main screen, to see, navigate and change things visually on time line, an elegant way to get rough sketch out and then work on details.
Hmm... Not sure what I am doing wrong can not get it to work right. Can somebody tell me if what I am trying to do is possible at all. Example:
First 4 Bars - Style ABC Bars 5-8 Change of Style DEF
Then I select first 4 bars (ABC) do "Copy From...To" All 5 things on the right are checked (copy chords, Copy Bar Settings, etc.) Then I copy bars(inserting) to bar 9. Clicking "Generate and Play. Bars 9-12 play DEF, not ABC...
A bit confused here.
If I copy not "just" chords, but complete line, why is it playing DEF style instead of ABC?
I think the reason is because of how the software groups or views information.
When I think about styles I don't think of what's happening in a bar I think of a "song" style. Styles don't "belong" to a bar or line; styles is part of the song structure. I view the ability to change the style within a song (using the F5 bar setting) as a little bit of a "cheat".
I think the style doesn't follow the copy because style data is outside the copy data box. My guess is no one ever thought there would be a need to copy style data.
Adding style data to the list of stuff that should be copied would make a nice wishlist request.
Rusty, Copying "from-to" doesn't copy the Style. There is no item that mentions the Style in the copy dialog.
Just copy the bars, then (1)select (click) on Bar 9 and press the F5 key then (2)press the .STY button and (3)re-select the style that the song starts in.
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VideoTrack, thank you for going out of your way and explaining things in great detail! Jim, thank for support and suggestion to make a request for style copy with bars.
I am surprised that "copy style" with bars was not requested before... However it is still be like a band aid.I think a simple visual navigator / sequencer would serve better, so you can actually see what is playing where and be able to change things simple way straight from it.
P.S.S. This is probably not the right place, but I think it would make a lot of sence to have a simple, visual track arranger that can be recalled from main screen, to see, navigate and change things visually on time line, an elegant way to get rough sketch out and then work on details.
What you're describing is a DAW and you are correct, it would be a simple, visual track arranger that makes short work of what you want to accomplish.
If you had not other choice but to use BIAB to accomplish this task, it can be done in BIAB by converting tracks to audio, and then using the Audio Editor to make any changes including copy/paste selected bars to new locations within your project. Convert these audio tracks to Performance tracks and moving the Performance Tracks to various tracks in the BIAB mixer.
This is possible because the BIAB mixer functions is a similar manner as the small, portable field recorders such as the Tascam DR40 or Dr05. The Zoom H4, H1 but even more similar to the small digital recording studios such as the Zoom R8 and The Tascam DP series such as the 004,006,008,03 units. The BIAB mixer falls short of features in comparison to these external recorders but that is to be expected since the BIAB mixer is a part of a system and not an all inclusive start to finish unit as the external recorders are. An advantage to using the BIAB mixer over the external recorders is all of the various BIAB systems that the mixer is just one part of, are available to the BIAB mixer.
It can be done in BIAB but is more convenient, easier and faster to do the task in a DAW.
Charlie, maybe in some way what I am describing does resemble DAW. I always export individual WAV files from BIAB to record vocals etc on a standard DAW. But as far as composition in BIAB goes, I was unpleasantly surprised that program does not offer timeline navigation or similar to be able to see whole layout and change everything visually in one place. As couple of people suggested I should ask for it in "wishlist"
One thing not mentioned and this may also be subject to the year version and PC/Mac differences between BiAB products but open RealTracks picker and select the button in the upper right corner <Medley> if you have it.
This amazing option will allow you to add up to an additional 10 instruments to any track. You can set when the instruments change out and you have the option to even have multiple instruments play simultaneously.
This feature works independently of Styles.
This feature provides 8 track BIAB to have up to 70 instruments in a project.
Also, if you convert tracks to audio, you do get timeline and navigation similar to what you see in a DAW when you are working on a single track.
an easy way to go back to the original is to first SAVE the original before you make edits to it. Give it a unique name.... Then, simply save your edits with equally unique names.
To get unique intros and endings..... create your own and use a combination of BB/RB and original live instrumentation ...assuming you play an instrument or can use MIDI.
I do all my mixing and final recording in Sonar so edits are relatively easy to do.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I decided to resurrect this thread. Can somebody recommend a video tutorial(s) that specifically focuses on techniques and tips&tricks on building intros / breaks /endings in depth in BIAB? I want to learn about different approaches and workflows that people use for particularly building those parts.
I can only dedicated an hour or so a day for BIAB, so need something straight to the point.
P.S. Hopefully something more recent, within last couple of years to make use of new features.
The custom endings video is helpful. Will watch the others you recommended.
When you say: "For intro's I just generally create my own" I assume you mean play out various instruments with keyboard or construct it with realtracks/midi?
I wish there would be a video with several examples on how to create intros. For me they are the hardest to grasp
I can create basic intro(s) but really would like to learn how to make more complex stuff.
When you say: "For intro's I just generally create my own" I assume you mean play out various instruments with keyboard or construct it with realtracks/midi?
Yes, I create a set of chords that fit with the song, and play along with those, usually ad libing a melody to suit.
You can also use the Melodist or Soloist to create such fills. There is an (older) video of these two functions on the Archives section of the Videos page on the web site that might be useful.
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