This is going to be perceived as a “Get off of my lawn!” observation by some.
I listen to quite a few music podcasts to turn my attention to artists I haven’t heard before. Discovering new music to me is one of life’s great pleasures. Sharing those discoveries with others is part of that enjoyment.
Today on the September 7 2018 All Songs Considered podcast they featured two different artists who used the word f-ing as an adjective. The use had nothing to do with describing sex.
One of the artists was described as a great lyricist.
I’m sorry, but that use of the word as a 2 syllable placeholder for the thousands upon thousands of available 2 syllable adjectives and adverbs in the English language is just plain lazy. That artist is a lazy and uninspired lyricist.
If you have resorted to this use of f-ing, please ask yourself next time: “what might fit better here instead of f-ing?”
Unfortunately it’s use doesn’t even shock any longer. It’s not cool. It’s not hip. It’s not useful as a word of protest or praise; nor does it’s root offer any of these benefits.
Fellow songwriters, if you agree with me please share these words. I will sign it here with my actual name. Let’s encourage our fellow songwriters to reach a little farther. I want to hear more of their creativity rather than this laziest of word selections. Signed, Scott Lake
I agree with this 1000% and I will gladly add my name.
Anyone who has spent five minutes around me will tell you I am no prude and I can get kinda "out there" sometimes. WAY out there. As in, you have NO IDEA how out there.
But ever since I was a kid my opinion on this has not changed:
If you have to use the f-word to conjure up emotion or anger, or whatever it is you are trying to conjure up, you don't know how to write--in my opinion. If you have to use any vulgarity with regularity as a stylistic device, you don't know how to write--in my opinion. To me, it's a cheap carnival trick and it makes my skin crawl. Kind of the literary equivalent of a pie in the face. Couldn't you think of something else??? But hey, you're talking about a guy who can't sit through a David Mamet play like Glengarry Glen Ross. Ok I get it. You know the f-word. You know how to use it every other word. Point well taken. But I'm outta here. I'm very bored now.
Also, that James Blunt song--"You're Beautiful." Let's talk about that.
Ok, I have stood on many a NYC subway platform catching the morning train, the midday train and the midnight train. I have stood on every platform in that city at every hour of the day. And I am thinking: Smokin' hot Upper East Side woman fresh from Saks is standing there with her hedge fund husband.
A kid who has been smoking dope all day is standing there in his busted sneakers, walks up to her and says:
"I saw you from across the way. And hey, I'm so f.....high, I don't have a job...and I know you are living in a 10 million dollar apartment with this f..ing banking dude who bought you that 5 carat ring, but I just think you're f...ing beautiful, and I'm so f....ing high, don't you want to f...ing ditch that money grubber and come live with me on my piece of cardboard on 14th street?"
And she turns to him says:
"Get lost you lazy loser."
But I digress.
Anyway, I sign my name.
DAVID SNYDER
For the "Please find another word for the Love of God!!" Campaign
Thank You!!!!
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Unfortunate but coarse and foul language is becoming more common and accepted by society. It's not just the "F" word, the "D" word is in everyday use too.
Artists use to make multiple versions of a song, one explicit for "the album" and a second revised for airplay. That doesn't seem to be as common anymore.
I know Bill Crosby is not as looked up to as he was in his prime but I agree with one statement he made, "you don't need to resort to foul language to be a funny comedian".
I'm a grown up so I realize coarse and foul language have there place, but I feel the language is not intended for common use. When I hear it in a song or as dialog in a program or movie it instantly ruins whatever mood I was in.
So I agree with you rockstar_not. It is a lazy way to write a song.
I saw that on Face Book.... didn't realize that was you. I didn't comment but the majority of those f'ing people disagreed and thought it was ok to f'ing cuss in a lyric.
I'm of the opinion, if you can't f'ing find a better word to use.... well, you're lazy and probably not all that literate in the King's English anyway.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Now, I am not a prude and have myself used naughty words when for example hit my thumb with a hammer or other similar human catastrophes .
Using the " F word " has no place in music and when i hear those words in music i simply hit stop and move on to another song and memorize the name of the so called artist to never ever play or listen to his/her songs .
Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions
As a 71 year old....I'm in total agreement with all others.
It makes one wonder what demographic they're (successfully) marketing too?. My guess....it's the rapper genre thugs who think they're actually being creative outside the lyrical box or the teeny boppers that think it's cool and hip to sing along when the parents aren't home.
I don't know, but like many here I've been doing music/writing/recording for decades and it would never occur to me/us to write lyrics with such course language. It's just one more reason I detest the bulk of contemporary music....in all my subjectivity. (And the videos out there?....OMG.....that's for another topic.)
In a screen-play or in a lyric which has characters talking, it's a sure fire way to identify the character as inarticulate. It may have some purpose otherwise, but if it is just tossed around that's why. If the songwriter is writing in his own voice, then obviously he IS inarticulate.
Didn’t know you were in the February Album Writing Month Facebook group! Or was it in the All Songs Considered podcast group? In the FAWM group most of the dissenters seemed to think I was advocating censorship. Not that at all. Just wishing for more creative lyric writing.
I copied the following from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G8ni5y6gjw "King of Fuh" by Brute Force. Arranged by George Harrison, championed by John Lennon and released on The Beatles Apple Records (Apple8). And then it was banned in the U.S., making it the rarest of Apple singles. Originally released in 1967.
Also I remember at school in English Literature when we had to read "The Canterbury Tales" by Geoffrey Chaucer written in 1392, especially The Reeve's Tale where the noun is written.
"Through this long night there'll be for me no rest; But never mind, 'twill all be for the best. For, John," said he, "as ever I'll take my luck, As, if I can, that very wench I'll f***."
I think it really depends on the rest of the writing for the lyrics. What were the rest of the lyrics like? I think it's hard to judge unless you can read all the lyrics and have a better context. At the end of the day, it's ultimately just a word. Not one I personally use in my day-to-day, but I don't think that someone is necessarily a lazy lyricist based off a single word. I'd need it in context with the rest of the lyrics before I could pass judgement, but that's just my opinion. I respect what everyone has had to offer on this conversation so far and it has been an interesting read!
I think it really depends on the rest of the writing for the lyrics. What were the rest of the lyrics like? I think it's hard to judge unless you can read all the lyrics and have a better context. At the end of the day, it's ultimately just a word. Not one I personally use in my day-to-day, but I don't think that someone is necessarily a lazy lyricist based off a single word. I'd need it in context with the rest of the lyrics before I could pass judgement, but that's just my opinion. I respect what everyone has had to offer on this conversation so far and it has been an interesting read!
At the end of the day, it's ultimately just a word. Not one I personally use in my day-to-day, but I don't think that someone is necessarily a lazy lyricist based off a single word.
That's correct. Personally, I'm not offended by any words by anyone and I've used every word in the book. People can write what they want.
The point of my response was that (with respect to writing a song and performing it) I wouldn't write a song using that language thinking it would actually make the song more appealing or listenable to the audience. From my personal writing perspective, I wouldn't be employing that sort of language (under current perceptions) and I think it's unnecessary, uninteresting and 'lazy' in general.....regardless of the 'context' I chose to write about.
Apparently it's working great for thug rap though.
I've waited a bit to say anything about this. It's a touchy subject when someone feels so strongly towards one side.
Scott, I totally understand where you are coming from. What it boils down to for you, I believe, is you feel people should try harder to come up with better ways of expressing themselves. To me, it seems that's asking a lot if that's not their goal.
There are a few other things to consider though. It's not always just being lazy.
One thing to consider is demographic. If I said the word "Frick" around my Mom; she would be appalled at my "potty mouth." If I said it around my kids, they would would giggle and ask me what I just said!
On that same subject, over the weekend my wife, my two youngest, and myself stopped for a quick bite to eat. A guy was on his phone and dropping F-Bombs here and there; with a few other choice words. NOT in an angry way. He was just talking. My wife and I glanced at each other for a second; but the kids didn't seem to even notice. It's not that my wife and I speak that way. It's that a lot of the rest of the world does. If it's become common in everyday conversation; it's natural that it would become common in lyrics. Which bring me to my next point.
Being relatable. That obviously is something that CAN be so important. For certain types of music or songs, to throw that word in meets an expectation for the audience or genre. I personally don't feel it's needed; but understand where others do. They feel it helps them connect with both their audience AND who they personally are. That congruency for an artist can be huge in emoting what they are trying to convey.
I have seen you comment about Beck before. Even he has a song that is titled F*****g With My Head. I'm thinking that song is saying what he wanted it to say.
So, again, I do get what you are saying. I personally have never written a song with that in the lyrics...and have no plans to. I also feel there are more creative choices; however, it's not always about the pure craft of it. I really like some songs of with ridiculously stupid lyrics. But...they make me feel great.
Anyway, I think if you feel posting this on the PG Music forum and signing your name is going to change an industry...actually society; you may be in for disappointment. Look at the average age on the forum, verses the average age of the people writing the lyrics you have issue with and I have a feeling you will see there would be a difference. You will get plenty of agreement here though.
Any shot of real change would be in you contacting every artist as you come across what you feel is lazy writing and see how what kind of reception you get. Most care about dollars over anything you have to say. Again, not everyone is in it for the craft...which I know you already know.
BTW, please don't take my post as against what you are saying. There are PLENTY of times when I hear songs and think "really?"
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I definitely don't think that cursing in music automatically means the writer is lazy. Some of the most creative lyrics I've come across incorporated swear words. And some of the stupidest lyrics I've ever heard had none whatsoever. It goes both ways too. I've listened to plenty of music with swearing that is pointless and adds nothing to the message. It's a double edged sword.
I do strongly side on that cursing can can add emotion to a song. But you've got to be careful with what you're writing because if you use profanity with reckless abandon you're going to sound downright ridiculous too. There's a fine line that you've got to tread. But if you do it right, the spirit it encapsulates is worth every second. I think swearing can display anger, sadness, vulnerability, desperation, and many other things when utilized properly.
I am admittedly younger than most here, so I grew up with swearing in the mainstream. I don't bat an eyelash at it, and really think nothing of it. It's just another word to me. All in all, I think swearing in music has its place - but in moderation. Too much and it sounds like you just learned your first swear word. But use it a few times in an album and it sounds like you mean it.
I believe context in these situations are everything.
Cursing and music have existed since...well...cursing and music.
I am of the opinion that any word can be grating if used as a lazy crutch. Honestly, how many times have you heard 'Baby' in a song.
I don't think you can claim clean songwriting is objectively better.
Say what you will about John Lennon, we can all agree he was a pretty good songwriter. When I first read this form I immediately thought about 'Working Class Hero', as a classic that drops the ol' F bomb.
I think lazy writing is just lazy writing, no matter the lyrics used to get there.
One thing to keep everything in scope. There are seven credited songwriters for Beyonce's - Run the World (Girls)
C-sharp when you cross the street… or you’re going to B-flat.
Then of course.... there was Country Joe McDonald and the Fish with the Woodstock song..... Gimme an F .... Gimme a U..... Gimme a C...... Gimme a K... What's that spell? What's that spell? What's that spell? Whereupon he starts what was ultimately the biggest anti-vietnam war song ever written. This was before any of the current crop of rappers were even a twinkle in their daddy's eye.
Then.... there's the David Allen Coe Black albums..... look that one up at your own risk.....
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/10/1807:37 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I copied the following from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G8ni5y6gjw "King of Fuh" by Brute Force. Arranged by George Harrison, championed by John Lennon and released on The Beatles Apple Records (Apple8). And then it was banned in the U.S., making it the rarest of Apple singles. Originally released in 1967.
OMG... This is the first I've ever heard of this song and I laughed my [*****] off.
Obviously I'm not offended by curse words or using them in songs. I do believe they can add intense emotion where desired. I do however feel that in some genres (mostly rap) that the F word can be over used for no good reason and that I would agree is lazy writing.
When it comes to the word f*ck it really is one of the most versatile words in the English language. It can be used as a noun, a pronoun, an adjective, a verb, an adverb, and more. It can display intense feelings of pain, pleasure, hate and love. It can also be used as nearly every word in a sentence.
Maybe instead of being offended by a word we should learn to embrace it's creative possibilities.
Did anyone listen to the song that sparked this? Or look at the lyrics?
See above if not.
The so called ‘versatility’ of this root word is exactly what I’m trying to draw attention to as laziness. Don’t have the time to think up a better word? No problem just use an f-bomb with whatever ending you so choose to fit your purpose.
So yes it has become versatile in application. See Hear 2 Learn’s experience above (which in a similar situation for me also sparked my thread). This use of the word as maybe seeming versatile, also seems an indication of failure of our society to encourage a wider vocabulary of its members.
Hear 2 Learn: I don’t believe my post has the power to change culture. But I have also participated I this passive acceptance of this part of the dumbing down of society. I signed my name as one way to say I’m not ok with this trend.
Hear 2 Learn: I don’t believe my post has the power to change culture. But I have also participated I this passive acceptance of this part of the dumbing down of society. I signed my name as one way to say I’m not ok with this trend.
Totally cool. I just didn't want to see you set yourself up for failure. It's annoying no doubt.
I have tried living a life as an example to my children and hoping that example will impact them in some way.
For what it's worth, I'm glad you voice your opinion. I do feel that's very important to do.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I totally missed this the first time, so thanks for re-posting.
I don't mind the song, but don't really care for it too much. I actually agree with you on this one - the swearing on this really doesn't add much. In fact, it kind of conflicts with the mood of the music. To each their own though, they say
Kind of strange lyrics for that style of music. I can see why you say it's lazy writing, but I can also see where the artist/songwriter might be very passionate about the subject and that they felt the only words that truly conveyed how they felt at that moment in that situation was "f*cked up." Been there, felt that way myself.
I think it really depends on the rest of the writing for the lyrics. What were the rest of the lyrics like? I think it's hard to judge unless you can read all the lyrics and have a better context. At the end of the day, it's ultimately just a word. Not one I personally use in my day-to-day, but I don't think that someone is necessarily a lazy lyricist based off a single word. I'd need it in context with the rest of the lyrics before I could pass judgement, but that's just my opinion. I respect what everyone has had to offer on this conversation so far and it has been an interesting read!
I read the lyrics first and thought “I hope the song is better”. The song was okay and I might try to listen to more of her stuff if not for that dumb word. I think using the f word here is just plain short sighted. She has just, with one word, turned off a whole section of potential listeners. My life is too short!
I am not a prude but don’t enjoy it when people use swear words in ordinary conversation either. I work in a high class financial institution and am currently sitting on the top floor with all the larneys because that is where the project users are. The language that flies around that office is like I have never heard before in my 30 plus years of working. Strangely it is the young girls who do it. I think they just don’t care who they offend. It just plain leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Sorry I might be immature - but that was fun this Fuh King was quite amusing - I wonder how stoned they were, when they considered this to be a great thing to do on vinyl
Last edited by Peters Garage; 09/13/1810:51 AM.
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Ok, I'll confess. I used it in it's full-throated glory (unlike James Taylor who slurred through it as scat on Steamroller Blues) one time in a song lyric. (Don't ask me about using it elsewhere).
My use of it fit my own criteria for it's use. It was a character song, and the character was particularly inarticulate at this point in the song.
It also fits other's criteria for use. It was the only perfect word to use (beautiful internal rhyme) and said precisely what needed to be said. Indeed, it's alternative in the vernacular would be no less crude.
It's use also fits other criticisms. I can't play this song for just anybody. I posted it on the now-defunct AcidPlanet.com. This site had a user defined content filter set by default to G-rated. A casual listener never got "beyond" that, and a registered listener had to choose to allow "naughtier" songs.
I don't know of another website that operates like that, so in order not to put off a casual listener, or cringe at the possibility of some certain family and friends stumbling across it, it's not posted anywhere.
As a consequence, the world has one less perfectly good song.
One may say that it didn't need to be written in the first place. But I don't think one can say there was a better choice of words, given that it was written.
I'll post the lyric if anybody wants to judge for themselves. I'm betting it's both better (and has a better use of the word) than the track that started this discussion. I'm certainly not ashamed of it.
It's use also fits other criticisms. I can't play this song for just anybody. I posted it on the now-defunct AcidPlanet.com. This site had a user defined content filter set by default to G-rated. A casual listener never got "beyond" that, and a registered listener had to choose to allow "naughtier" songs.
I don't know of another website that operates like that, so in order not to put off a casual listener, or cringe at the possibility of some certain family and friends stumbling across it, it's not posted anywhere.
As a consequence, the world has one less perfectly good song.
Tangmo,
The two websites I use for my music, reverbnation and soundcloud, both have check boxes where you can specify if the song you are uploading contains explicit lyrics. Both sites allow you to create a free account for uploading music. There are a few former acidplanet guys on both of those sites BTW.
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