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I have what might be termed a vintage hardware synth (double-rack mountable, not a controller) that I want to get into the chain.
I bought a new USB interface (simple) that has one standard 3-prong mic input and one standard "guitar patch chord" 1/4 inch input.
Output is by USB to computer and by RCA to speakers/monitors. I am assuming (though do not need it to) that these RCA jacks can also lead to computer if the soundcard accepts them. Of course, it also has a phones jack.
The aforementioned hardware synth has both RCA and "patch chord" I/O.
What I don't know how to do is get midi to the synth. My soundcard is stock with no I/O other than mini-plug for phones/speakers and mic, RCA for speakers and, of course, USB. There is no USB port on the synth. I don't think USB had even been invented when this synth was made.
Is this doable with what I have? If not, what do I need?
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 12:57 PM.
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Hmmmm.....
I'm slightly confused.....or, I'm misunderstanding your post.
You didn't mention, nor is it clear to me, if you have a keyboard controller to trigger your synth module or not?
Carry on....
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No, I will be using Midi from BIAB or DAW to trigger the synth. I think they call this a synth module.
I had it set up at one time, so I know it's possible. I just don't remember/know how I did it.
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Well...
Admittedly, I'm no Einstein with this midi stuff but I'm not bright enough to envision how that would work.
I was under the impression one still had to have a keyboard controller for BIAB to speak to in order for midi messages/patches to play at all.
I'm no help but look forward to the responses you get to understand how that's actually accomplished.
Me.....I have (3) modules (Proteus FX, Roland MBD-1, Roland MVS-1) triggered by my Monoprice controller.
Back to it.....
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If I read you right it might be doable. You will need a 5 pin MIDI to an USB converter: https://www.amazon.com/TraderPlus-Converter-Synthesizer-Interface-Controller/dp/B079SWVRXT/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1536881558&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=midi+usb+adaptor&psc=1They cost $11 USB. Plug that into your computer and select BiaB to export MIDI to it. I do this only in my DAW so I have no idea how to do this in BiaB. Now if you only want to hear your hard synth then you can run your outputs to your amp and speakers. But if you want to record that synth then you will need a way to get the audio into the computer. If your synth is mono then you are all set. Just run the synth audio output into your into your mic jack on your audio interface, this assumes that your mic input will also take a 1/4" plug.. But if the synth is stereo and you want to keep it stereo then you will need an audio device with two line inputs. If you also want to record your vocals and guitar you will need an audio interface with enough inputs to accommodate everything. Or you can do it in a DAW. Record your MIDI, then on another track record your guitar, and on another track record your vocal. Again if your synth is mono you may be all set to go now. Personally I would do this in a DAW; remember RealBand is a DAW and it is capable of doing this. I have very little knowledge of RealBand as I use another DAW so someone else will have to help you with this. Good luck.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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You're right, Mario. This should be done in a DAW, and on separate tracks/takes. That's why I went with cheap and simple.
There is a line/instrument switch by the 1/4" input of the USB interface. I failed to mention this. I should select "line" if receiving audio from the synth?
Should I, if I want to record a stereo signal, get a small mixer or (God forbid) a different USB interface? Or will the "line" or "instrument" setting take care of this by itself? I guess I can find out when it's all plugged in, but I'll be a long way from intelligible help when I do.
Your method sounds workable, and affordable. All I could hope for!! Thanks.
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What tyoe of synth do you have? I have a Moog Sub 37 that I was able to connect via midi that would be controlled by recording midi in my DAW.
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A USB-MIDI interface is 100% the way to go, but I would personally avoid those $11 MIDI interfaces like the plague. I've seen more of them fail than work.  An interface by an established company like Roland or M-Audio would still be very affordable, and will be a lot more reliable. We sell the Roland UM-1 here: http://www.pgmusic.com/rolandum-onemk2.htm and pretty much every music retailer will have a few models for similar prices that you'd be able to count on. Tangmo, you'll want to connect the audio out of the synth to the Line Input on your audio interface. Which model of interface, and which synth did you get, by the way? Cheers Kent PG Music
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I got the Scarlett Solo (2nd Gen) 2 in/2 out. About $100 US at sweetwater. The suggestion came from the guy at recordingrevolution.com.
I haven't taken it out of the box, and it MAY be possible to exchange, but I really don't want to do that if I don't have to.
My synth (Synth module) is a Kurzweil 2000RS. I have no real idea how old it is. I bought it used more than 10 years ago. It would take 2 rack-spaces if rack mounted, but it works fine sitting on a flat surface.
I can't detail all the I/O on this beast, but I may take a picture when it's light out.
Kent, I think Mario was just suggesting that 11 dollar adaptor to get midi signal to the synth. You don't think it would work even for that? Or are you talking about something else altogether.
My last set-up sent audio directly to the soundcard for conversion by way of a funky mixer set up and adaptors. Weird as it looked, it worked. I sent midi signal to the synth in my DAW and it output audio through the mixer straight to soundcard and back into the DAW. Both of those were happening at the same time.
Problem is, I don't remember how I sent midi to the Kurzweil. I Just know it had nothing to do with a USB interface. At best, it was some kind of cable/adaptor rig.
So do I need to lose even a $100 investment and buy a different interface? If so, then there's more to consider.
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 05:01 PM.
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Ooops...sorry, Kent. I thought you were linking me to a different Audio/USB interface. You're linking me to a better USB/Midi interface. Understood, now. Considering how difficult it is to get music gear where I live, this might be a smarter investment.
Question still remains about the Scarlett Solo handling a stereo signal.
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 05:27 PM.
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BOTTOMLINE:
You need to get MIDI data out to the Kurz and back again
Since PC's do not have any native 5 pin MIDI I/O (and never have) you need to have, on the PC side, some kind of MIDI I/O cable adapter (e.g. Mario's suggestion or teh suggested Roland or the M-audio Uno or....) or some other PC interface box that has MIDI I/O, as well as other features, like a higher end Focusrite Scarlett - starting with the Scarlett 2i4 and higher have MIDI I/O, Presonus units, and others)
============================
In the "OLD" PC days (when your Kurz was an "in" module) PC's had a GAME port (joy stick port) and most used either a "game port to 5 pin MIDI cable" adapter (I still have a few around here somewhere) or we bought a Roland MPU 401 unit or similar (and I have a few of those someplace as well).
BUT Today USB to MIDI is way to go
IF you need a SCSI 100MB Zip drive for sample read and write let me know - LOL
Larry
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My synth (Synth module) is a Kurzweil 2000RS. I have no real idea how old it is. Doing some searching I find there is a K2000 keyboard, K2000R module ('R' may refer to 'rack mount') and your K2000RS. Yours having the "S" is a sampler too. Ebay had one and I checked it out and it's a good looking unit. The K2000 keyboard is 1999....so, the RS model is likely within a couple of years. I hope you were fortunate enough to get manual with it. As of this moment I can not find it online at all. Good luck on your quest....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 09/13/18 06:57 PM.
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Thanks, Gentlemen. Though it looks like square 1 for actually getting the audio from the synth (I'm positive at least some of those sounds are stereo) into the computer since apparently this interface won't accept a stereo signal unless it's (perhaps) capturing a performance with two (or two types) of microphones.
I'm not even sure about that much.
Maybe a small mixer is the way to go, and more adapters. Maybe a way to send stereo signal hard-left, then hard-right on two separate passes. Maybe send stereo as mono and enjoy the phasing. Maybe more frigging adapters.
Larry, I can probably use those SCSI Zip drives, but only if you have a SCSI to USB adapter...and a USB Hub.
Gear makes my head hurt.
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If you'll pardon me for posting a link to a song not done in BIAB (except credit is due it for introducing me to midi) this is why I'm attached to this synth (apart from the fact I already own it and don't have to pay for it) over software synths I'v messed with. I didn't know (and still don't know) how to get the full functionality of this box. What manual I had for it I barely understood...and it's lost to hard-dive failures now. Remove this post if it breaks the rules. Skip to minute 4:00, if you can...the rest is listenable, but not stellar. This came from a midi performance of the song, run track by track though the synth. The "guitar" you'll hear is the combination of perhaps three or four (maybe more) guitar sounds returned from the Kurzweil, blended in the DAW, with additional effects applied. http://alonetone.com/tangmo/tracks/aqualung-backing-trackCredit to Ian Anderson, guitarist Martin Barre, and whoever made the midi. I don't steal them any more, but he made it for some reason beyond making it sound like a music box. I hope I did him proud.
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I'd recommend you save headaches, money and complexity, return the Scarlett Solo, and get this or something similar (since you clearly have an appreciation for used gear): https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Roland/UA22-DUO-CAPTURE-EX-Audio-Interface-114485698.gcUSB-powered with two inputs that can accommodate line/instrument/mic-level signals plus MIDI I/O. Just add cables.
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If what I see on the WEB is the correct device it would appear to have midi in, midi through and midi out. I had an olde device like this once and connected to a pc using an M-Audio midi to USB device (once I got shy of an on board sound card). then used the DAW to either capture from or send to the device. Years prior I had a midi to game port cable in an old Sound Blaster card but that was ages ago when I still had teeth.
The M-Audio UNO USB to MIDI interface is only about $50 in Australia so I would imagine less in the US. It has a MIDI IN plug a MIDI OUT plug and a USB plug plus a little control type device connecting the cables. Very simple and worked a treat.
Last edited by Teunis; 09/13/18 09:17 PM.
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A USB-MIDI interface is 100% the way to go, but I would personally avoid those $11 MIDI interfaces like the plague. I've seen more of them fail than work. ........................... Cheers Kent PG Music That is interesting Kent. I have used a number of them and I have had no problems what so ever. Maybe I've been very lucky.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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Let me take a different approach.
The Kurzweil is a synth module. It doesn't have a controller built-in. I could hook up a cheap Casio to it and get it to work. That's not how I'll be using it. The "controller" I'll be using is the DAW sending midi to the Kurz.
What comes out of the Kurz is analog audio (and almost always--if not always) in stereo. I could hook speakers up directly to the Kurz and get sound. That's not what I intend to do, however. I want to send the analog audio back to the computer/DAW to be recorded on another track. Of course, somewhere along that chain it will have to be digitized.
I am sure the Kurz can also send/pass midi signal to another device...including the computer/DAW. But that's not what I want to do. I want to get the audio it's sending digitized and back to the DAW.
So is a USB/Audio interface with Midi I/O essential? What's going to go "in"? Analog Audio or Midi? If it's analog Audio, can I be sure it's stereo?
I think Mario's broad suggestion/understanding is the way I'll go, though I may spring for a brand-name interface. It's not going to break me. But I will consider an Audio/USB interface with midi I/O if that will indeed get Analog Stereo from the synth back to the DAW in one step.
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Caveat - I'm making some assumptions here, as I don't have the equipment in question, but logically, I believe this will work.
Connect the USB-to-MIDI connection you are going to buy to a USB port on the computer and then with a 5-pin MIDI cable, connect it to the MIDI IN on the Kurzweil unit.
Connect the Scarlett Solo to another USB port on the computer. Connect your speakers or headphones to the Scarlett output (so you can hear what you are doing. You will use the Scarlett as your "sound card".
Connect the audio output of the Kurzweil to the audio input of the Scarlett Solo.
In your DAW, select the USB-to-MIDI connection as your MIDI OUT (so that MIDI data gets sent there.
In your DAW, select the Scarlett as your Audio IN and your Audio OUT (which will occur across the two way connection on the USB cable). That way, you can record sounds from your Kurzweil into your DAW. And anything you play from the computer will be heard on the speakers (or headphones) connected to the Scarlett.
If you want to record a guitar or vocal connected to the Audio IN on the Scarlett, you will will have to disconnect the Kurzweil unit from your Scarlett, since it only has one stereo input. So you can only do one at a time.
That way the routing for recording MIDI will be:
MIDI data on a track in the DAW software --> out to the Kurzweil unit --> which creates the MIDI sounds in the Kurzweil unit --> and sends it out the audio output of the Kurzweil --> and into the audio input of the Scarlett --> and from there the audio can go back into the computer to record and/or be played back out the speakers of the Scarlett.
Hope that made sense.
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Hi,
I'd say the Scarlett Solo is a fine interface (Focusrite stuff tends to be rock solid), it just won't be able to record the K2000 in stereo, since it only has one line input. That's its only disadvantage.
As long as you're OK with recording the synth in mono, all you need is the MIDI interface.
If you want to be able record it in stereo, an interface with two inputs that can handle line level would be required.
For what it's worth, I do tend to record my synths in mono. I only need stereo in for my drum machine and reverb pedal.
Thanks
Kent
PG Music
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There are 2 separate paths you need to be concerned about
1. Getting the MIDI from the computer to the synth (so it knows what to do)
2. Recording/monitoring the Audio created by the synth back into the computer as part of the song
One is a MIDI Out signal, the other is an Audio In signal.
Two different drivers in many situations.
It's very possible that a USB MIDI adapter allows getting the MIDI to the synth, and a different Audio Interface allows getting the audio signal (from the synth) back in.
Make your sound your own!
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https://www.ebay.com/p/Batige-Dual-2-RCA-Male-Plug-to-XLR-Adapter-Spiltter-Patch-Cable-Cord-Audio/21004206847?iid=253849516742&chn=psIF...and it remains a big if...the XRL input on the Scarlett Solo will actually receive a stereo signal, this may be the "rigging" I could use. There was nothing I could find on the Focusrite page that addressed this question, and I found no easy way to contact them. Doesn't the LR in XLR stand for Left/Right? And there was a mention in some of the FAQ about using a stereo mic, but not in the context of my concern. There are two other glimmers of hope I will cling to until dismally disappointed. 1. The possibility of a single patch-cord to XLR adapter that may allow both channels to go to the two Ins--one to the 1/4" and the other to the XLR. 2. There is a "digital out" on the KURZ that looks quite a bit like an XLR connection. I suspect it was intended to go to a DAT or similar, but I don't know what actually leaves (analog audio, or digitized audio, or something else.) Anyway, I've contacted Sweetwater and hope to get some kind of answer soon. Thanks for the kind replies.
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Hi,
I'd say the Scarlett Solo is a fine interface (Focusrite stuff tends to be rock solid), it just won't be able to record the K2000 in stereo, since it only has one line input. That's its only disadvantage.
As long as you're OK with recording the synth in mono, all you need is the MIDI interface.
If you want to be able record it in stereo, an interface with two inputs that can handle line level would be required.
For what it's worth, I do tend to record my synths in mono. I only need stereo in for my drum machine and reverb pedal.
Thanks
Kent
PG Music I'll be happy enough to record the synth in mono. It was only drums and certain pianos that I valued the stereo highly. I'll almost certainly use Real Drums to replace midi as I'm not that into "beats". And I don't do too many piano songs that would benefit from stereo and can use soft-synths.
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Tangomo, I do what you're trying to do all the time with many synth modules as you can see from my "sig". Please review Rharv's comment again, you are dealing with two signal paths. One is MIDI, the other audio. You will either need two units (one audio and 1 MIDI) to handle this or a combination unit like the Focusrite units that handle both MIDI and audio.
You connect the MIDI out of the Kurz unit to the MIDI in of the audio/MIDI interface and the MIDI in of the Kurz to the MIDI out of the interface. The interface then connects to your computer via USB. The audio outs of the Kurz units connects to the audio ins of the interface. Depending on if you want to run stereo out from the Kurz and also depending on how many other audio devices you hook up to your system will dictate how many inputs you need on the audio interface.
In my case, I have to use two separate units, audio and MIDI, only because I am using multiple synth units all at the same time.
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MountainSide, he may not need a MIDI interface. Using a 5 pin to USB MIDI adapter he would connect the MIDI part of the equation directly into his computer. Tangmo, the https://www.ebay.com/p/Batige-Dual-2-RCA-Male-Plug-to-XLR-Adapter-Spiltter-Patch-Cable-Cord-Audio/21004206847?iid=253849516742&chn=pswill merge both left and right channels into a mono signal. If mono is ok this then this leaves your other input for you guitar or vocal. (note - if your synth has a mono out then just plug it into your interface - no need to buy anything) If you want stereo then you will need an adapter like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/XLR-M-Male-2-to-RCA-M-Male-2-Stereo-3ft-Adapter-Converter-Changer-Plug-Cable/152965606238?hash=item239d75eb5e:g:3n0AAOxyQ45Q~5Jc:sc:USPSFirstClass!14420!US!-1 This will use both of your inputs. BUT if you use a DAW you can record your stereo synth on one track, unplug your synth and plug in your guitar and/or mic and record on another track. (note that you can also record as many tracks as you want using your synth, guitar or mic) It's only if you want to record everything simultaneously that you will need to buy a different interface.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17 |
The left channel output on a hardware synth will generally be set up (and labeled) as a mono out when nothing is plugged into the right channel, so there's no need to merge stereo from the synth to the mono input if that's the way you decide to go.
However, I would strongly advocate for recording in stereo from the Kurzweil. Aside from the fact that some instruments like Piano will have been sampled in stereo, and drum sets will have panning built in, a lot of patches will have stereo FX like chorus, phasing/flanging, multitap delays, Lesle simulations, etc. that are an integral part of the sound and that you'll want to be able to capture to take advantage of all the work that sound designers did.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
I sincerely appreciate ALL the feedback from you guys. I get easily frustrated with lots of buying decisions, and musical gear is always a tricky compromise when you have a budget. So I took some time off to get my head gear-clear and consider what I really want to do in my unique situation. (I live full-time a good hour to hour-and-a-half from the so-called Central Business District of Bangkok where shopping is plentiful IF you know where to go, but some items are more expensive IF you can even find them at all.) So for reasons related to the future, I'm going to be returning the Scarlett Solo. I'm going to stay within their family of products and get a unit with two matched inputs for stereo. Also going for midi I/O for the future when I might want a keyboard/controller. I can't "play", but I can noodle, keep pretty good time, and edit. Here's the unit. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlet2i4G2--focusrite-scarlett-2i4I've already had to call the missus to let her know the account has taken some unexpected hits. I'm going to wait till I see her to tell her about the raise, however. LOL. She might call off the hit-man and I might get extra-lucky. I sure hope so. Thanks again, all. I really, really appreciate it. Here's a link to my sales guy's music. https://soundcloud.com/fieldsandfortresses
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/25/18 10:21 AM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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