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Hi all,
I wonder if someone could briefly tell me (a non techie person) what is the difference between realtracks and samples that come with other musical software?
Don't other software packages that have samples also get real musicians to initially play the sample to start with? so I'm finding it difficult to understand the underlying differences.
Thanks
Musiclover
Last edited by musiclover; 12/15/09 08:46 AM.
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Well technically all digital music is a sample. It just depends on the length of the sample. A CD is a very long sample. The samples that are part of a synth are typically very short samples. One note that then gets stretched out. Sometimes more notes. The more notes the better the result. RTs are sample of complete phrases that can be one measure long and up to 8 measures long. We call them loops.
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>>...RTs are sample of complete phrases that can be one measure long and up to 8 measures long. We call them loops...>>>
Well, pretty much yeah. There is a bunch of semantics that comes up here. There is an important between "loops" and Realtracks. Lots of programs can do loops, but only BiaB and RBand can do Realtracks. The two function differently.
I hope someone will pop up and explain the difference in detail.
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The only Real difference is that the program does it automatically and randomly. Otherwise it's pretty much the same.
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What they said. I think what you're really asking is, "Are RealTracks recordings of actual instruments, and if so how do they differ from loops?"
And the answer is, yes, they are real recorded instruments, and they differ from loops in that (a) Band In A Box can adjust them to whatever chord you want in a given measure automatically, so that you only have to set the instrument and type in the chords, and (b) they provide some variation, so that on subsequent plays you don't always get the same loop in a given measure.
This makes it different from, say, Acid Pro, where you can transpose a whole song at once, or any given loop (or split section of a loop) at once, or transpose at a marker point, but you can't just easily change the chord structure, and you have to vary the loops manually (which I have done on a number of songs, and which is a Big Pain In The Tuchus).
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but another really big thing that I've noticed about Real Tracks is that you can actually change the individual notes in the song, using the RePlay feature. This is a huge difference from Loops, which are not alterable at all.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Gary,
You are both right and wrong. When you hit play in BIAB and the song regenerates the program just chooses different loops to play based on a set of parameters that is built into the program. You could do the same thing in Acid IF you had the patience. That's the beauty of RTs it's totally automated and unpredictable in a good way but they are just loops that are being manipulated in a very ingenious way.
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but another really big thing that I've noticed about Real Tracks is that you can actually change the individual notes in the song, using the RePlay feature. This is a huge difference from Loops, which are not alterable at all.
Gary
You may have something there. I have seen references to Real-Charts which may be editable for real tracks. I have not tried that yet, but it would be interesting. Hard to believe they can do that. But they have certainly do some other stuff which is amazing.
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Quote:
I have seen references to Real-Charts which may be editable for real tracks.
Editing a "RealChart" won't allow you to change how the RealTracks play. RealCharts are a relatively new feature that PGMusic implemented to allow you see (rather than just hear) what the RealTrack is doing, as well as allow you to save a MIDI rendition of the RealTrack (albeit without some of the nuances of the "live" recording).
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As I understand it...
Each Realtrack is a collection of samples of a real instrument. This collection comprises audio recordings of the same instrument playing in different keys/different chords/patterns all at the same tempo. It also includes recordings of the instrument playing holds and shots etc
BIAB's function when playing Realtracks is as a VERY sophisticated sample player. It looks at the tempo you have entered, the chords entered, part markers and any rests/holds etc. It then selects one of the samples in the realtrack that is suitable based upon these variables, and speeds it up or slows it down to match the tempo (the sample speed is changed so the instrument playing sounds faster or slower than the recorded tempo, but the pitch of the notes stays the same).
That is the clever bit!
BIAB also looks at the preceding and following chords when choosing which sample to use, making it a pretty impressive piece of engineering.
The Realtracks also contain variations for each chord/pattern, so when you regenerate a track BIAB may choose a different sample, still appropriate for the song bar but different to the previous generation. Hence it's always worth generating a few 'takes' of each instrument to see which you like best
I would imagine that the Realtracks are built up using bars as a basic measure. If you look at the tutorial on this site on how to create your own Real DRUMS, it will give you an idea of the logic. However, realtracks also accomodate key and chord changes which is what makes them so impressive and almost impossible to make yourself!
Hope this helps
regards
Martin
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RealTrack source files are actual complete recordings of the instrumentalist playing an entire song along to backing tracks.
The magic comes in the splicing and dicing to create those "loops". Which they really aren't. I'd call them, "phrases".
--Mac
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Quote:
Hi all,
I wonder if someone could briefly tell me (a non techie person) what is the difference between realtracks and samples that come with other musical software?
Don't other software packages that have samples also get real musicians to initially play the sample to start with? so I'm finding it difficult to understand the underlying differences.
Thanks
Musiclover
Everybody has come at your answer from different directions and are pretty much correct. I'm going to make an assumption as to what you meant by your question.
When most musicians refer to samples they mean individual notes like when I play a sax patch on my Kurzweil keyboard. I hit a key, I hear a note that sounds like a sax. Change patches to piano, I hit a note, I hear a piano and so on. When you say "samples that come with other software" I'm assuming you mean single note samples like a piano library of a sampled Steinway or whatever. Loops are different and I wouldn't use the term loops in reference to RT's. Sort of I guess but really quite different.
Real Tracks do not go down to level of a single note, I think the smallest increment is a full bar but I'm not sure. RT's are studio recordings of phrases played in a whole bunch of different styles by pro players. As audio files you can not alter them unless you're a real wizard with audio editing. The notes that appear in notation are simply a way for you to see what is being played. Changing the note in the display has no effect on the audio file just like you can't change a note in the guitar part on a commercial CD. There are both good and bad in this. The good is obvious, the outstanding audio quality and the fact it's a live player laying down the phrases not just individual notes. The bad is they all start sounding the same after a while. Say you like the Eagles type of sound so you do 10 tunes using the Southern Rock strumming guitar. True, there are some variations but it's clear that those tracks were laid down by the same player in the same style and your 10 tunes are going to have essentially the same guitar part. That's why the library of RT's is already huge and getting larger. There are lots of different strumming guitar parts now and even though some may not match what the Eagles did, they can sound pretty good in the mix. The more the better from that point of view.
Using midi, you can write out exact parts with detailed variations that fit your tune perfectly but then those are midi parts and you have to trigger a synth with them. Some midi parts can sound pretty good but nothing like a live player. That's why people spend thousands on different hardware and software synths and then many hours tweaking them in their computers to make them sound as close to a real player as they can.
There's no one perfect answer but the RT's really do add a lot imho. I work mostly in Real Band using a combination of midi and audio tracks including RT's. We're trying to duplicate the sound of a multi million dollar studio using pro players here in a bedroom in my case. It's amazing how good it can sound now.
Bob
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I tested this.
I went and took a song I had loaded, opened up a Real Tracks style for it, with a "String" part, which was in actuality a trumpet sound. In the notation editing window, I am able to move the notes around and completely rework that part. After moving the notes to where I want them, if I press Replay, the song will start over again, and the changes I made to the part are still there!
Of course if you press Play, the parts will regenerate.
So, loops can not do that, Real Tracks will.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
I tested this.
I went and took a song I had loaded, opened up a Real Tracks style for it, with a "String" part, which was in actuality a trumpet sound. In the notation editing window, I am able to move the notes around and completely rework that part. After moving the notes to where I want them, if I press Replay, the song will start over again, and the changes I made to the part are still there!
Of course if you press Play, the parts will regenerate.
So, loops can not do that, Real Tracks will.
Gary
That just isn't correct.
Don't know what you had going on at that end, but whatever it was, maybe fooled you, but you cannot do that with a RealTrack.
I just opened up several different RealTracks and tried it to make sure. Don't work that way. You can change the note names on the staff, but the RealTrack will not follow those at all.
And if it did, it would not be a RealTrack, it would be a common ordinary MIDI sampler...
--Mac
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Agree Mac
If you think of it in terms of resolution, then midi has the greatest resolution i.e. down to a single note (actually much further than this). Realtracks resolution is much lower, i.e. down to a bar. If you have a Realtrack that sounds different each time you play it, it's because BIAB is choosing a different phrase from the Realtrack source file for that bar.
So, if your track is responding to individual notes that you are changing, it must be a midi track
Regards
M
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Agreed but I believe RTs resolve down to a quarter note duration as you can programme 4 chords in a bar
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Or maybe resolve to an eighth note, because it can accommodate pushes. That's different, of course, from accommodating eight chords per bar; it's still four chords, but all four could be pushed, making eight possible positions.
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Good point Sam, I knew those i.e.'s should have been e.g.'s !
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